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| canadachris - 2/11/2015 6:30 PM
esoxaddict - 2/9/2015 7:52 PM
I tried this a while back with 4 barred DDD's of different color:
1. Against a black background in various light conditions up to near darkness
2. Against a white background
3. Held up against the sky on a dark night
4. Held up against the sky on a bright night
What surprised me the most is that the lures that stand out the most outside against a dark sky are NOT the ones you would expect to be the most visible. Now, I get that I am looking at them with human eyes and there's no water involved. But it's safe to say that what you see when you're standing there looking at a lure thinking it's highly visible is NOT what the fish see, especially at night.
Curious - what were the results? What was most surprising?
It was pretty much what you'd expect against a white background. Against a dark background, black bars on a chartreuse lure dissappear before brown bars on a gold lure. Against a dark sky, the lighter colors (yellow, orange, and chartreuse) actually make the lure MORE difficult to see. You can't see the bars on the darker colored lures, but the profile is much more easily identifiable. On a bright night, the profile stands out no matter what, but brown bars are more visible than black.
My instincts would be that dark night = bright lure, but black was easiest to see against the sky. The same goes for brightly colored lures on a bright night. You'd think a full moon would require a darker colored lures, but the bright ones show up better, at least looking at them from my perspective.
It's all a matter of what we can see looking down at them vs what the fish see looking up at them. While I'm much more comfortable with a lure that I can see in the dark, that same lure is often LESS visible from underneath.
It makes sense, but it's something I never thought about until I saw it for myself.
Edited by esoxaddict 2/11/2015 7:02 PM
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Posts: 1906
Location: Oconto Falls, WI | esoxaddict - 2/11/2015 7:01 PM
canadachris - 2/11/2015 6:30 PM
esoxaddict - 2/9/2015 7:52 PM
I tried this a while back with 4 barred DDD's of different color:
1. Against a black background in various light conditions up to near darkness
2. Against a white background
3. Held up against the sky on a dark night
4. Held up against the sky on a bright night
What surprised me the most is that the lures that stand out the most outside against a dark sky are NOT the ones you would expect to be the most visible. Now, I get that I am looking at them with human eyes and there's no water involved. But it's safe to say that what you see when you're standing there looking at a lure thinking it's highly visible is NOT what the fish see, especially at night.
Curious - what were the results? What was most surprising?
It was pretty much what you'd expect against a white background. Against a dark background, black bars on a chartreuse lure dissappear before brown bars on a gold lure. Against a dark sky, the lighter colors (yellow, orange, and chartreuse ) actually make the lure MORE difficult to see. You can't see the bars on the darker colored lures, but the profile is much more easily identifiable. On a bright night, the profile stands out no matter what, but brown bars are more visible than black.
My instincts would be that dark night = bright lure, but black was easiest to see against the sky. The same goes for brightly colored lures on a bright night. You'd think a full moon would require a darker colored lures, but the bright ones show up better, at least looking at them from my perspective.
It's all a matter of what we can see looking down at them vs what the fish see looking up at them. While I'm much more comfortable with a lure that I can see in the dark, that same lure is often LESS visible from underneath.
It makes sense, but it's something I never thought about until I saw it for myself.
Hmm, I wonder why my chartreuse/pearl cranks work well at night based on this. |
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Posts: 2691
Location: Pewaukee, Wisconsin | What we see is the top of these lures. Fish mostly see the bottoms only or some part of the sides.
Cranks are another story. They are down in their face and can be seen from all angles. I have caught muskies banging the bottom at night with cranks. They see the tops or sides at most then.
Travis, I like cranks in pearl or white at night. Darker cranks when fished up away from the bottom. Sometimes I think the colors that are neutral make it hard for the fish to pick out by sight so they go by feel and sound more. Maybe more of a reaction strike than a visual strike.
We all have to look at this color/contrast/shades like the fish do. Usually from below the baits we are casting or trolling.
Sometimes I wonder why lure company's do not make night baits with reverse colors for at night. Like black bottoms with brite tops so we can see them better at night and so can the fish. Ugly lures just dont sell. Pritty lures do. Most lure manufactures sell lures by catching fishermen.
Great topic. Keep the information flowing. Lots of good points and info. |
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| CiscoKid - 2/12/2015 6:01 AM
Hmm, I wonder why my chartreuse/pearl cranks work well at night based on this.
I am guessing it's got something to do with light refraction, especially on moonlit nights. What I am seeing holding a lure at arms length against the sky is probably nothing like what a musky sees at night from under the water. In regards to that specific color, perhaps the pearl reflects light at a greater depth?? From their perspective, looking up through the water, I'd suspect that any metallic color would create some flash. Their lateral line will tell them all they need to know about where that lure is, from farther away than most of us realize. The added bit of contrast and reflectivity (is that a word?) might just be the key to them being able to see what they are aiming at.
Let me ask you this, Travis: Are you incorporating a pause into your retrieve with these cranks, and are you finding that they still often eat on the pause like they do during the day? Or are they mostly hitting while the lure is moving?
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Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | 'Hmm, I wonder why my chartreuse/pearl cranks work well at night based on this.'
What portion of the water column? Dark night? Bright night?
Is the chartreuse green based, or yellow?
I have an idea...crazy one, but I am going to do it when I get back, and post the video.
The Aqua-Vu 760 CZ ought to get it done, I can look up, down, and sideways and run it from daylight to dark. That way I can recreate that seminar deal I do but have it in the water, under actual conditions.
Project time! |
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Location: Elko - Lake Vermilion | sworrall - 2/12/2015 12:55 PM
'Hmm, I wonder why my chartreuse/pearl cranks work well at night based on this.'
What portion of the water column? Dark night? Bright night?
Is the chartreuse green based, or yellow?
I have an idea...crazy one, but I am going to do it when I get back, and post the video.
The Aqua-Vu 760 CZ ought to get it done, I can look up, down, and sideways and run it from daylight to dark. That way I can recreate that seminar deal I do but have it in the water, under actual conditions.
Project time!
Steve, are you going to use the "Fisheye" lens. Haaha |
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Posts: 32886
Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | I could...have one for the underwater studio camera I built. |
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Posts: 1906
Location: Oconto Falls, WI | esoxaddict - 2/12/2015 12:41 PM
CiscoKid - 2/12/2015 6:01 AM
Hmm, I wonder why my chartreuse/pearl cranks work well at night based on this.
I am guessing it's got something to do with light refraction, especially on moonlit nights. What I am seeing holding a lure at arms length against the sky is probably nothing like what a musky sees at night from under the water. In regards to that specific color, perhaps the pearl reflects light at a greater depth?? From their perspective, looking up through the water, I'd suspect that any metallic color would create some flash. Their lateral line will tell them all they need to know about where that lure is, from farther away than most of us realize. The added bit of contrast and reflectivity (is that a word? ) might just be the key to them being able to see what they are aiming at.
Let me ask you this, Travis: Are you incorporating a pause into your retrieve with these cranks, and are you finding that they still often eat on the pause like they do during the day? Or are they mostly hitting while the lure is moving?
Jeff I will answer your question as well as Steve's here.
I fish my cranks the same at night as I do during the day. That being every so often, say 4-8 times during the retrieve, I get the bait to kick out with twitches/jerks/rips. Just like during the day I would say 80% of the fish hit right after that action. Once in a while a fish will eat during the cranking portion, but they do that during the day as well. I do not see them eating it any more or less at night during the twitches/jerks/rips.
Steve in terms of the water column it is high seeing as though most of the time I am running my cranks in the top 10'. In some cases, like a 10" Jake, only 3-4' down. Water depth varies anywhere from 15' (hump) to 70'. Almost all my cranks have white bellies with a few exceptions.
As far as the base for the chartreuse, I honestly have no clue.
Concerning available light at night. I haven't noticed any difference between a dark night, or a full moon. Usually I do go lighter in color during a bright moon for flash, especially using baits with holoform. Seems to make a difference, but maybe it's a matter of it's also usually a bait that rides higher. So chalk that up to I am now fishing at the fishes level. I do well under new moon conditions with light colored baits as well. Some with little contrast, at least to my eye.
It's not just Chartreuse/pearl (as it isn't always white). Light blue and white have been good, as well as a TN shad (white belly with olive back). I do very well with the good 'ole standard black/white too. Some lakes a Bluegill pattern is good at night so that one has a bit of a mix between dark and light. Chartreuse, florescent blue and green, and white (prefer the Mania bluegill over the Bucher bluegill).
I like what The Extreme Ones says about the muskies are not always looking up when it comes to cranks, and thus can be seeing more than just the bottoms. Bare in mind most of my night fishing occurs suspended over deep water, and usually pretty clear. If a fish is 30' away and only maybe 5' below the depth of my bait they are more than likely seeing the majority of the profile of the bait.
Usually I do not make color selections based on night and day as I find the same colors on a particular body of water work regardless of time of day. One exception is a Big Joe I have referred to in a past night color thread. I call it the naked lady, and during the day has been a dud for me. At night though it IS the one I go to on some lakes. Not sure what it is but dang that is about the only one they want. I can change to another Joe the same color and it is just as productive, but change colors and the action from fish isn't there. So I consider that eliminating the lure variance out of the equation, and say that the color is what matters. This is a darker lure. It is just as effective 5' down at night as it is 40' down at night.
One other lure I have forgotten about at night is Superman. Not much to that bait besides white. Sure I guess a touch of orange so maybe that is what they key in on.
Steve that would be cool if you could do what you said with your camera.
Here is the pic of the Naked Lady.
Also here is a link to this very same topic back in 2010 that quite in depth and has a lot of good, interesting info. Glad I found it again.  I think it also contains EA's test he did with baits.
http://muskie.outdoorsfirst.com/board/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=55...
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