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Posts: 1767
Location: Lake Country, Wisconsin | Oh jeez, I really need to bite my tongue here.
But please, take your whining about holds, bump boards, and measurements somewhere else. I see nothing wrong here other then a great catch that looks 100% legitimate, and it looks like there is a very good chance that fish is still alive as we speak. Really enjoyed the story Neil, thanks for sharing and WHEN are you taking me out guiding in 2009 is my only question |
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Posts: 2687
Location: Hayward, WI | Wow, what a fish. Those pictures certainly show how big that fish is - amazing. I really enjoyed listening to the interview also. Nice to hear that a great fisherman can be so humble about catching a true giant.
curleytail |
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| for head size comparison this is a pics of the true release world record(61)so i am sure of 1 thing your fish is a true giant.
Edited by mota 10/15/2008 3:44 AM
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 lapointe1.JPG (37KB - 135 downloads)
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| Muskies Inc. members annually release over 99% of their fish, so I strongly doubt any of us would have thumped it. As far as handling this particular fish, I have shared numerous e-mails with Neil, and EVERY Muskie caught would be very fortunate to be treated with the care Neil informed me he took when dealing with this fish. I certainly have no issues with that. My earlier post simply stated that there is no proof of any kind that using bump boards is in any way harmful to Muskies. I have never heard of anyone having a problem with measuring Muskies on a bump board until reading a post on this message board yesterday. My earlier reply had absolutely nothing to do with the fish Neil caught. Sorry if that wasn't clear. Again, congratulations Neil. You deserve a fish like that for the c&r practices you use. |
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hey cradle is the best!
hilbert you are my hero,its always fun to read you |
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Posts: 61
Location: Sioux Lookout On Canada | I could have stated that it was 61,62,63,64 inches or better but, I simply stated to Steve the numbers that I heard from the guy reading the tape and reacting to the numbers. If I forked the tail? Ya sure why not tack on another 3-4 inches... who cares guys. I boated this fish and I am not out to prove anything like I find other anglers are. It is not good business especially if you are a guide, to be front and center. The guide should put the guest front and center. I fish to relax when I am not guiding... is that wrong? My partner left his measuring board at home that day. Was that wrong? If it meant a million dollars I probably would have kept it but I didn't. When anglers compete against each other for prosterity reputation and to be better... that leads to mistakes that usually cost the fish its life. I have seen this time and time again up here with a couple of the guides. always wanting to be the best... center of attention.. for what? Always at the expense of the helpless fish. I am really enjoying the comments and I will take the time to be better prepared next time.
I hope someone else catches it soon... |
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Posts: 550
Location: So. Illinois | Neil,
You have nothing to prove, you were honest in detailing your experience with both musky fishing and your experience catching this magnificent fish. Nothing additional needs to be said. There are many of us on this message board who are grateful that you shared your experiences with us. What it comes down to is that you caught a fish of a lifetime and recognized the experience as being truely special and that experience is not defined in any means by the need to articlate that experience in relationship to a specific measurement.
Ignore the "tools" on here who pretend to congratulate but use this thread as a means to criticize your accomplishment in an effort to push their own selfish agenda. Your interview speaks volumns in repsect to your character. It would be an honor to share some time with you on the water.
R, Jerry Ford
Edited by AFChief 10/15/2008 1:15 PM
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Posts: 296
| That's a giant! Congrat's on the fish of a lifetime. Thanks for sharing. |
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Posts: 304
Location: Lino Lakes, MN | Niel,
Congrats on big--big--big ---big fish  I congatulate you on catchin it and telling your story. It took a lot longer to tell it in words than it happened in real life.
Thank You for sharing it with us.
I can tell you this much most of the guys who have found something to knock you with have not caught or seen a fish that big.
Catch another this fall that makes it look small
Steve |
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Posts: 32801
Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | muskynorth,
Thanks again for the opportunity to talk with you, and may you recapture that fish again....and release it as successfully as this time. Looking forward to sharing a boat with you next year! |
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Posts: 280
Location: McFarland | Loch ness monster is for real only it resides in Lac Seul!!!! Holy mother of muskies Congrats to you! |
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Posts: 221
Location: Detroint Lakes, MN |
Unbelievable fish. Most of us can only hope to see one follow that is so large.
In regards to comments made on fish handling, anytime you take a fish out of water it is stressfull.
Whether you use a vertical hold, horizontal, bump board, tape measure, etc. etc.
So we're really splitting hairs here saying a bump board is safer than holdling it.
Personally, I'd rather hold a big fish and be able to toss it overboard if it wanted to thrash than lay the thing in the bottom of the boat and have it start flopping around potentilly causing serious damage to the fish or anglers.
I don't know how I would hold something that big, I don't think you can plan for handling something like that, you just do it.
Neil obviously doesn't care if it was 58", 58.5" or 60". Why should he, it was the experience that makes it what it is, not the measurement.
Way to go Neil, that's something most of us will never get to experience.
JS
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Posts: 561
| my buddy told me there were other pic's available , other than the one on page 1 , is that true ? |
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Posts: 1916
Location: Greenfield, WI | It looks just like a typical day in the life of a Muskie First Member!
Good for him.......
OK, now it is my turn! |
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Posts: 32801
Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | ManitouDan - 10/21/2008 4:52 PM
my buddy told me there were other pic's available , other than the one on page 1 , is that true ?
Watch the video, sir. |
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| Neil - great fish. That thing is well over 60 inches and bigger than any fish anyone on this site has ever caught. especially the one's questioning how accurate your measurements were and or criticizing how it was held. I'm pretty sure i read a post by someone saying fish shouldn't be held vertical and the bigger they are the more damage that would cause. A bunch of tools. Have yet to make it as far as lac suel but someday i will and look you up. Great fish, great pictures, great release, great interview and great measurements. Thanks for sharing the details with everyone.
Captn Ron |
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| I was skeptical at first after seeing the horizontal hold in the first pic whether that fish was really near 60". But after watching the video and seeing Neil holding the fish vertical, I have to believe that it really was 59"-60". Great fish and great story to go with it!
Edited by Baby Mallard 10/21/2008 8:08 PM
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Posts: 50
Location: Central Wi. | Way to go, Neil. Thanks for sharing. Great interview, sworrall. Keep up the good work. |
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| Wow, I'm a tool for stating a vertical hold is likely more harmful to a Muskie than simply lying it on a bump board. If that makes me a tool, I accept. |
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Posts: 1449
Location: Kronenwetter, WI | Wow just watched the vid...what a great story...Neil---congratulations, you deserve it! |
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| Mota, whats the story behind the fish in the boo/magazine you have pictured? |
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Posts: 1277
Location: Hayward, Wisconsin | I am by no means trying to take anything away from this capture of an obviously GIANT muskellunge. But to ascribe an accurate measurement to it is impossible given the circumstances. Doesn't reduce the accomplishment. Following is something everyone should consider when measuring that trophy of a lifetime (which by the way includes consideration for the fish).
From "Handling Techniques and Survival of Released Muskellunge" by Rod Ramsell (MN DNR) written by Jack Burns (from TheNextBite library):
"Very little support is provided by the connective tissue on the underside of the head in the vicinity of the isthmus. As a result, a fish held (or hung) vertically has a tremendous amount of gravitational stress upon its mechanical physiology. This can best be seen by the amount of stretch of a fish’s length when it is held vertically. A 39-inch muskellunge, measured laying flat on a measuring board, will measure between 40 and 40.5 inches when held vertically; a 48 inch muskellunge will measure between 50.5 and 51 inches under the same conditions. This increase in length results from the stretching of connective tissues between some of the more anterior vertebrae and the articulation of some of the weakly "hinged" areas and skeletal structures within the skull. Using gill net mortalities or recently deceased angling release mortalities that I have recovered, I have demonstrated this physiological effect on Esocids to several student interns and new employees that I have been assigned to train over the years. By showing them this physiological effect first hand, I feel it has helped all of them to become better handlers of the fish they will be working with during their professional careers."
It is apparent that there are many variables in how anglers measure their fish and the end result that they get. Some methods make the fish longer than it actually is and some are oft debated, like pinching the tail (which by the way is the accepted method used by biologists). Which is correct is an individual choice as applied to released fish. For record purposes, the lying flat method is required using both fork length and total length without the tail being pinched.
It is my opionion that anglers, that use a vertical measurement length are doing the fish and themselves a disservice. As has been pointed out often, it is very hard to hold a fish and tape at the same time and get an accurate measurement...you "may" short yourself (as could have EASILY been the case with this fish, which as noted by the captor was HARD to hold up alone, let alone with the tape), OR you could be "claiming" a length that is not realistic, especially in the longest specimens based on the MN DNR data quoted above.
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Posts: 32801
Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | Something I think alot of the folks here are missing:
Neil didn't claim the fish to be any particular exact length because he is aware of what Mr. Ramsell offered, he simply said in the interview it was 'over 59', good enough for Neil so it's good enough for me.
Good advice Larry, thanks! |
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Posts: 652
Location: MPLS, MN | I can't believe people care so much about how someone else measures their fish. From musky historians to guides to Noobs. Please stfu and let the guy and the public just enjoy the darn fish. |
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Posts: 13688
Location: minocqua, wi. | wouldn't it be great if we all had the opportunity to have as many critics? i'd like to see a judgement of his peers ... which would be a short list of people and probably result in a very different discussion. |
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Posts: 2024
| I loved the interview. I sat on the edge of my seat. I don't care how big it was. I hope some day I'll be able to encounter such a large fish. Neil's story was great and the description of how it went down made me feel like I was right there.
In response to those questioning the length and giving him flak about it and how it was measured, this is why people don't post pictures on the internet. http://muskie.outdoorsfirst.com/board/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=38...
60% said either keep your mouth shut or don't post on the 'net and share with friends... Hmmm. If you've got thick skin, great. Good for you. But who needs the aggravation when people question your catch? It's a shame so much of this goes on. |
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| I think we need to clear up a little confusion on this whole "Vertical Hold" issue going on.
In a post on page 3, the poster CAPT MORGAN says this, "so a vertical hold is more harmful than laying one on a wet bump board to get an accurate measurement. Interesting opinion." Those are his exact words, taken from the post. He is implying with that statement that there is NO DIFFERENCE between the two, which according to everything I've personally read, is simply not the case. I've seen studies showing there are negative effects to holding a 10lb Largemouth Bass by the jaw, so I'm pretty sure holding a 20,30, or 40lb Muskie in the same manner can not be good for the fish. I replied stating that it is probably worse holding a fish vertically, and MY reply was to Capt Morgan's statement and had absolutely nothing to do with Neil's fish. If you read through all of the posts, you'd notice that I've shared e-mails with Neil about this catch, and according to everything Neil told me about how this Muskie was handled, every Muskie should be so lucky.
Do a search on vertical holds and see for yourself what you find. I'd post a link to a great article from The Next Bite, but it's not allowed by that website. Everything points to vertical holds NOT being in the best interests of the fish. I'd love to see one person show scientific proof stating that there is no difference in harm to the fish between laying a Muskie on a bump board, or holding it vertically by the jaw. You won't find it.
Hopefully this will clear up any misunderstandings about any of my earlier posts, and I'm sure Neil knows I was speaking about Muskies in general, and in no way about his awesome catch. Congrats again Neil. Hope you catch her again next year. |
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Posts: 720
| You know what in the end verticle or horizontal. Both hold are bad for the fish, because its out of the water. You that berate Neil for his method of holding that fish should quit fishing. There are a lot of things that "are not in the fishes best interest." Like hooks, nets, and many other things. So next time you idiots catch a your 35" musky and pull it out of the water for picture. Remember what a hypocrite you've become.
Neil great fish man. |
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Posts: 59
Location: WI | Why can't we all get along? Nice fish. Wish I'd caught it. Period. |
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Posts: 32801
Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | And, Neil shot a DANDY Whitetail just a few days ago. Sportsman, all the way, and I am looking very much forward to fishing with him next year if at all possible. |
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