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Location: Metro | Are you saying you keep musky on purpose so your precious walleye can run free? |
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Posts: 90
| Bleeding from the tail now = a death sentence? HUH?
Blinded in one eye, dead as a door nail.. what the...
Take the opinions of this thread with a grain of salt. At the rate muskies get caught these days, if you believe some of this crap there shouldn't be any muskies left. Due to paper like cuts from line, stumped fins on the side of the boat, root canals without freezing and anti septic and the ever so deadly rock rash from swimming to close to bottom... |
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Location: Elroy, Wisconsin | Glad to know Lunger my post is a bunch of crap. With more experience, you may come to some sensible conclusions yourself.
Mudpuppy |
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Location: oswego, il | I am going to become a fish vet. I will make boat calls. I will make a fortune. |
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| The people who study this stuff for a living say that 5% - 10% mortality is the norm. I believe them.
I don't care how arrogant you are or how many fish you THINK you release successfully. The folks with little or no experience may kill a greater percentage, but they don't typically catch that many anyway. Even the best among us are likely killing more fish than we are willing to admit.
Anybody who says they have never killed one is in denial. You may THINK you're the best mf-er in the world at this, but the reality is that catching these fish kills some of them. Get over it. Cry in your beer, or pretend your catches are special and all swim away unharmed if it helps you sleep at night. But anyone with a handful of years under their belt fishing will tell you that ramming hooks through their faces and elsewhere, and dragging them to the boat to be netted and unhooked and photographed IS going to do some of them in.
If you can't accept that, you should give up fishing and take up snorkeling instead. Trade your rods for cameras ladies, you can't handle this sport.
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Location: Elroy, Wisconsin | Right on Addict.
Mudpup |
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| What kind of snorkel and fins do you guys recommend? |
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| esoxaddict - 9/18/2014 8:04 PM
The people who study this stuff for a living say that 5% - 10% mortality is the norm. I believe them.
I don't care how arrogant you are or how many fish you THINK you release successfully. The folks with little or no experience may kill a greater percentage, but they don't typically catch that many anyway. Even the best among us are likely killing more fish than we are willing to admit.
Anybody who says they have never killed one is in denial. You may THINK you're the best mf-er in the world at this, but the reality is that catching these fish kills some of them. Get over it. Cry in your beer, or pretend your catches are special and all swim away unharmed if it helps you sleep at night. But anyone with a handful of years under their belt fishing will tell you that ramming hooks through their faces and elsewhere, and dragging them to the boat to be netted and unhooked and photographed IS going to do some of them in.
If you can't accept that, you should give up fishing and take up snorkeling instead. Trade your rods for cameras ladies, you can't handle this sport.
SPOT ON!!! |
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Location: oswego, il | I know I have killed a few. I have had them die in the net lightly hooked. I have had fish horribly hooked swim off strong. Caught fish that swam off strong with gill rakers hanging free from a previous catch, pike too. Anyone want to venture a guess at how bad those.fish were bleeding?. You cannot predict which fish will live or die based on how they have been hooked or handled. I have caught fish that have been horribly handled and can tell how by their wounds and scars. I do not know what the mortality percentage is and I could only speculate as others have 5-10% seems high to me.
Edited by ToddM 9/19/2014 6:38 AM
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Posts: 90
| Oh My Gosh!!
So 20 years expect means nothing I suppose....
I dont THINK all my fish survive, I do THINK that more than 95 in 100 do. I know for a fact I have had 2 die.
Nobodies ever caught a blind in one eye muskie. Think there is one on the Niagara that has been caught several times. I referenced the only study that I know of that spoke directly to the impact of experienced muskie anglers to the fishery. Guaranteed some of those fish bled, heck I think one was even hooked in the gills. Being an experienced muskie angler(post count on this board does not make you experienced) I believe my mortality rate is closer to that studies findings, than whatever non cited multi-faceted study this boards experienced insist are correct. |
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| ARmuskyaddict - 9/18/2014 8:54 PM
What kind of snorkel and fins do you guys recommend?
Buy the fins you can afford, and a snorkel you can't afford. Also, make sure you don't use a flash camera, or the fish will surely die. |
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| mudpuppy lsc has 1 eye muskies. they all don't die. |
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Posts: 280
| Lungen50.....there are many studies and biologist's opinions based on decades of experience that indicate the mortlity %'s I mentioned. Of course they will vary with the angler and many differing conditions.
Many angler's believe that if their released musky "swims off strong" it will be fine and live to be caught again. Maybe, maybe not. There may be a period of time pass before a fish will succumb to effects of stress. Not all fish will die within an hour or so and not all fish will float when they die. You personally can believe whatever you like but your "belief's" won't affect the mortality of fish you release. Even "experienced angler's" will kill fish unintentionally.
Esoxaddict spelled it out very well......... |
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Location: oconomowoc, wi | can we save this topic for december thru march? i'm still practicing proper handling techniques.. (: |
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| I hope you get a LOT of practice!!  |
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Location: Lake Country, Wisconsin | woodieb8 - 9/19/2014 8:18 AM
mudpuppy lsc has 1 eye muskies. they all don't die.
1 eyed muskies most certainly do not all die....not sure how you are coming to that conclusion but it is an incorrect one. Have caught more then a handful over the years
Edited by Musky Brian 9/19/2014 10:38 AM
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Location: Elroy, Wisconsin | Well Lunger I will work real hard to try and reach your level of expertease. Have patients with us old timers we don't have the benefit of all your knowledge.
Mudpuppy |
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Location: oswego, il | I have caught plenty of o e eyed blind muskies through mishandling and growths in the retina. Is it wives tales week on m1st? |
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| No wives tale Todd. It's very possible for a muskie to die from losing an eye depending on the depth of damage. Bacterial infection is one way. Possible damage to the optic nerve of the other eye will blind the fish and make it very difficult to feed. They won't all die of course but you will probably never see the ones that do succumb.  |
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Location: Elroy, Wisconsin | I'm sure a few can survive with one eye in a food rich environment, but it must make it almost impossible to feed efficiently. I picked up a 49" musky several years ago, skinny as a baseball bat and obviously didn't die easy, one eye was badly damaged, the other appeared OK.
Your mileage may vary
Cohagen |
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Posts: 90
| Ever catch a fish in water with 6 inches of visibility? A foot? Wonder how it managed to eat?
I think too many people think these fish are built like fragile china dolls. If your on that side of the fence like the two guys above I am not sure how you even justify to yourself sticking a hook in their face...
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| I seen a picture of a 53 incher caught out of lake Minnetonka that had 2 red bulbs for eyes. It was blind as could be and it was not skinny by any means. I think all they need is there lateral lines to eat, they don't need to see to eat. |
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Posts: 280
| Lunger50...."I think too many people think these fish are built like fragile china dolls."
You may believe that [I don't] but YOUR position seems to be that as long as [your] fish is put back in the water it will be fine. That is just as innacurate as your quote above.
Gordon Pyzer who was a MNR senior manager of fisheries stated in an article about Lac Seul which became a 100% C&R fishery in the late 80's that the fishery was in decline because of an increase in fishing pressure in spite of being 100% C&R due to delayed mortality. I'm paraphrasing but that's essentially his point.
Soooo...the more you catch.....the more you kill.
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Location: Green Bay, WI | Slow Rollin - 9/18/2014 10:23 AM
How long would you say a 50 inch muskie could be out of the water for photos with water temps say over 70 degrees?
You cannot make any predictions about that, unfortunately. One 50" fish might tolerate 2-3 minutes out of the water, and be just fine...and the next succumb to a cardiac arrhythmia or not tolerate an angling-induced electrolyte imbalance (and subsequently die) after only 30 seconds or less out of the water. Although I've never read much about it in the literature, these fish are individuals--and just like other animal species, some specimens die when exposed to conditions that other members of the same species survive. So it's going to be highly variable I'll wager, and also very dependent on the baseline health status of the fish, and the stress imposed by the angling event and the unhooking.
Suffice it to say that the more oxygen in the fish's system, the better. And since they respire through their gills and their gills only work when they are in the water...leave them in the water as much as possible.
In other words...if it hurts to do that, then don't do that.
TB |
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TB
Although I've never read much about it in the literature, these fish are individuals--and just like other animal species, some specimens die when exposed to conditions that other members of the same species survive.
Great point Tom! I wish I would have said that...... That's one reason why "delayed" mortality is so hard to get a handle on. Some years back I spoke with a biologist from the John G. Shedd Aquarium in Chgo who mentioned that there may be a 2 week [or longer] window in which a fish may succumb to stress, bacterial infection or injury after being C&R. |
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Location: Smith Creek | So is the 5 to 10% that is generally accepted by biologists supported by actual tagging and tracking data or is it simply anecdotal?
I have never seen a study that tracked caught and released muskies where 5-10% died. If anyone can find it I'd love to see it. |
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Posts: 280
| A lot of the data is mostly extrapolated from studies based on other species, such as pike, rather than muskies. That's one reason, among many others, the %'s can vary greatly. Some studies may use proper and careful handling under optimum conditions for survival. These, of course, will show what may be a lower mortality % than what actually occurs in real angling situations. I believe I have seen some studies conducted with intentionally poor handling and stressing of fish to show that % of mortality which is extremely high.
There are studies which show very low mortality and studies which show very high mortality.
The bottom line is some will die even with the best of intent. |
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Location: Alsip, IL | I think some fish are just delicate. Got a 47 a few weeks back and I'm not 100% if she made it. Out of the water for around 40 seconds total. Hooked perfectly as the hooks popped out in the net. But she gave me fits reviving. I actually jumped in the water with her and spent 45 minutes before she finally swam away very lazily staying near the surface. Water was 77.1 and the fight lasted maybe 30 seconds. I've never killed a muskie and never will intentionally. I really hope that fish did come around, but idk what else I could have done. I'm not going to stop fishing for them for fear of killing one every few seasons, when there are guys clubbing em to protect walleyes.
Edited by mecoltin123 9/22/2014 11:26 AM
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