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Posts: 206
| I may have missed any new information regarding the proposed x-176, but just wondering if there is any update or timeline on its release? I remember threads going back as far as 2011 I think. I know there are delays, competing priorities and we've been in a recession seemingly forever. All these things affect new product introductions. However, if there are any new details, please share. Thank you ~ |
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Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | Nothing yet. Work continues on a new X190 Tiller hull design. |
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Posts: 117
| Hope Im not taking this off course, but Im intrigued by your comment. Seems every couple months someone asks about an x-176, it seems to this outsider that theres interest in it. Are there really more people interested in a 19' tiller boat than a big 17' boat like that? I live outside of your core market, but I literally NEVER see tiller boats bigger than bare 16' aluminum rowboats around here, so Im surprised by that. Clearly interest doesn't equal marketability, and it might compete with your own other 17' boats to an unacceptable level, but if you are able to comment on the topic Im interested. Thanks ahead of time. |
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Posts: 1638
Location: Minnesota | Ranger and skeeter make 20 foot tillers so tuffy making a 19 foot makes sense |
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Posts: 32805
Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | Tuffy has built a 20' tiller for years.
Rated for 150 for several years, now rates at 200.
The X176 is a very expensive project, probably in the realm of $50,000.00 to develop the tooling and get a prototype built. The 17.5' market hasn't been real strong, but it is coming back...has to do with demographics and who buys that size multi-specie boats. There isn't as much margin in boats as you might think, so it takes quite a few sold to recover the cost of development.
Tuffy has the X190 tool and plug already built, so retooling for a 19' tiller would not be a huge expense. |
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Posts: 627
Location: Madison, WI | An x-190 tiller would be awesome, but to me my dream rig would be an esox magnum in like an 18 ft model! Perhaps the Super Mag? I have a 1760 GC but an e mag fishes way bigger than it is and I think a 18 ft model would be like the best Muskie platform out there! I think a x-176 is actually a waste of time since tuffy already offers 2 boats in the 17' class in the 1700 and 1760, also the x-170 is about 17 foot so really do they need another? Bring on the Super Mag! |
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| Just spent some time in tuffy 20 tiller with a yamaha 150, awesome rig! |
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Posts: 206
| "I think a x-176 is actually a waste of time since tuffy already offers 2 boats in the 17' class in the 1700 and 1760, also the x-170 is about 17 foot so really do they need another? "
To me, it actually seems like the deeper V 1700 and 1760 are more redundant and an x-176 would be unique - a smaller version of the x-190 (18 inches shorter, lighter, etc) yet quite a bit bigger than the x-170 which is only 16'-8" and a narrow 72 inches wide.
I personally think it would make most sense to have the Deep V 1760 and an x-176 as the two 17 footers in the Tuffy line up (because I think they are different from each other enough), but yeah I get it at $50k to tool and prototype, you have to be right.
The hard part is that it seemed like the x-176 was almost a sure thing for 2-3 years of waiting, and then momentum stopped. I don't see any other brands/models out there right now similar to that platform and I actually think there would be a good following. Almost like the old Ranger 681vs only updated. I sense because of the economy, gas prices, etc - a certain segment of people moving somewhat away from Suburbans and 20 foot boats. Yet they still want something versatile, a good value, etc...and can tow it with a V-6 crossover.
If not an x-176 - what else is out there that fills that niche? Skeeters are nice but they offer either bass boats or Deep V, nothing in between. Recon 785? Have heard some good things about the 985 but nothing about the 785. Or maybe you have to go aluminum (would rather not) like a Lund 1775 Impact. ??
I'm open to suggestions - anyone have ideas for what else I should be considering?? I plan to buy next year..
Edited by smalljaw 7/10/2014 9:30 AM
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| Larson looks interesting for that size
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Posts: 206
| Thanks, I looked at the Larsons pretty closely at the boat show. Very deep, very wide and heavy. (The 1750 Larson is 2 feet shorter than the x-190 yet weighs more).
I'm trying to hone in on something more multi-species with a bass boat type of layout but just deep enough to handle some rougher water. Larsons are nice but I see them as very deep and a more walleye platform in layout.
Again, a smaller version of the x-190 or an updated version of the old Ranger 681vs. The search continues..
Edited by smalljaw 7/10/2014 10:13 AM
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Posts: 117
| sworrall - 7/9/2014 10:43 PM
...X176 is a very expensive project, probably in the realm of $50,000.00 to develop the tooling and get a prototype built. The 17.5' market hasn't been real strong,......has to do with demographics and who buys that size multi-specie boats. There isn't as much margin in boats as you might think, so it takes quite a few sold to recover the cost of development.
Tuffy has the X190 tool and plug already built, so retooling for a 19' tiller would not be a huge expense.
thanks Steve--I work in product development, so that makes perfect sense to me. Appreciate the insight.
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| I agree, I have been waiting for the x-176, but I don't think we will see it. |
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Posts: 13688
Location: minocqua, wi. | why not buy and old one and restore it? … if you pick the right brand it's a worthy venture. |
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Posts: 206
| If you're referring to an older Ranger 681vs - yes, that is a possibility. However, I looked at several last year and found most with older 2 strokes that would probably need to be re-powered. I found one in particular where they had re-powered with a newer Etec but the wood floor was soft in one area. Ranger made the composite transoms in that era but the floors and side consoles were wood. Others I looked at needed things like re-wiring, replacing all old electronics, in need of a new trailer, etc.
It can be done, but I'm afraid if you buy and add in expenses to get it up to speed your looking at $20k + for a boat that is 12-15 years old or more and will probably need more stuff over time. Would rather pay a little more for something new and under warranty. I can budget for that, but not for lots of little (and some big things) over time. After having completed one boat reclamation project before, not sure I have the patience to do it again... but yeah a 681vs is still a possibility.
Edited by smalljaw 7/10/2014 11:01 AM
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Posts: 13688
Location: minocqua, wi. | if you re-do all the wiring and layout, re-power with new warranty, install new electronics, trolling motors etc… assuming you do it with a worthy hull … what do you think you should be afraid of "need more stuff over time" … that statement can be made for any boat.
restoring a quality original saves you huge money and in some cases the "new" market doesn't make a boat that was and still is an ageless classic. |
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Posts: 410
Location: With my son on the water | Look at my post (New 1760 GC Esox) dated 6/14/2014 in the boats and motor section.
The way I have that 1760 laid out it is basically a x-190 but just 22" shorter. I am heading to LOTW any day for a month or so and I know that rig will handle it fine. I am not sure what you would be looking for in a X-176 layout that this boat doesn't have?
I may have purchased a X-190 but the tandem axle turned me off (although you can get a single) and the amount of storage space length require.
My 1760 needs 23 ft(boat = 17'6" + motor 3' + trailer beyond the boat even with a swing tongue 18" to 2'+ a few inches front and back) and my garage is 23'9" There is another post that says an X-190 only needs 23 ft but I just don't see how that would fit??
To me if Tuffy wants to make any changes they should simply canvas the owners of the current boats and ask what needs to be improved. I have only owned my rig a few months and I have several inexpensive ideas already that would really make it fishermen friendly that no other brand offers.
Got a go pack, have a good day. |
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Posts: 156
| I like the idea of a Super Mag
18'8" with a 90 beam and a 90HP rating 9'6" rod lockers
as compared to an Esox Mag
16'8" with a 80" beam and 60HP rating and 7'6" rod lockers
A modern twist on a classic
Although I am envision that might what the X190 tiller might be close to
I wonder what the sticker is on a X190 tiller?
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Posts: 206
| "Look at my post (New 1760 GC Esox) dated 6/14/2014 in the boats and motor section."
I think the 1760 GC is an awesome boat - fishes more like an 18-19 footer. My hesitation with a boat like that for me is that I spend 2/3 of my time in smaller rivers or backwater bays flippin for bass in shallows. I think that 1760 might be too deep and that's why an "x" hull would be more appealing to me. Yet, I think I could take a 17 1/2 foot version of the x hull out on Mille Lacs or Waubay for walleyes and not get swamped..
Edited by smalljaw 7/10/2014 4:33 PM
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Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | 1760 G series hull too deep? For what? Draft? That won't be much different at all, the 1760 drafts very little at rest.
Everyone thinks up things they would like to see in a boat, and when written down and drawn out on a design suggestion form (yes, Tuffy did ask large numbers of owners, and not just once) one would be amazed at the conflicting 'must haves' and 'no, don't do thats'. What you see in the tooling can't be easily changed...molded parts are what they are. Lots of the ideas we see submitted won't work because the resulting part won't pull from a mold, think of that when considering what you would like to see.
Also, there's where gas tanks, foam flotation, wiring, hoses, livewell plumbing, etc has to go, and USCG rules and regulations to meet.
Not as easy as one would like.
The current interior design is a result of consensus, and if you look around, you will see that same consensus represented in most brands with 'tweaks'. Easier to add stuff to aluminum, by the way. The Lunds have some super cool interior features.
Muskie Deep V guys 'love' the Renegade and Ranger 690 series side tanks...right? Well, a few do, but the majority wanted more interior room and wouldn't buy a boat with big side tanks. The guys who didn't want the big Deep V open interiors buy low profile models. That's why you don't see the big side tanks like you used to...they don't sell well. |
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Posts: 791
Location: WI | I know that Tuffy guys are very loyal and love there boats and I really don't want to make anyone mad but does any model have a legitimate rear casting deck. Every one I've see has that little deck in front of a huge transom. For a boat made for Muskie hunters I just find that so odd.
I honestly mean no offense. I am kinda in the market for a glass boat from my 18' tourney pro and to me that is one of the most important things. Used tuffys can be found at a good price but that has steered me away. Yes you could have a custom deck made but the esox already has the deck pushed forward due to the fiberglass transom area. You would think they could structure that under the casting deck and gain a foot of of floor space. Just wondering
Edited by Trophyseeker50 7/10/2014 8:52 PM
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Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | Yes, all the Esox Deep V models from 2060 to the 1700 have a removable, large casting deck with Gull wing lids which is the difference between the Esox Deep V models and the Osprey. The splashwell in every Tuffy Deep V can be walked in, jumped around in, etc, making it usable space unlike most of the competitive deep V builds (and it's the same approximate size), and the livewell/battery/oil tank area ( what I think you are calling a 'little deck') expands that deck space. You can add the deck to any Tuffy deep V model with the rear livewell style interior, or buy the older style rear casting deck kit for the older models, which is a fiberglass formed platform.
The 2100 casting deck is in design/production now, that hull has not yet been offered in a true Esox Deep V.
Deck pushed forward? You lost me there.
(3853046_0_170220121216_6.jpg)
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 3853046_0_170220121216_6.jpg (31KB - 284 downloads)
interior-esox.jpg (41KB - 266 downloads)
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Posts: 206
| This post has been helpful to me and a learning in many respects. As a consumer I think I know what I want but admit I can be enlightened further, so let me ask an additional question Steve about "draft."
I'm assuming the x-190 will draft less water than other 18-20 foot Tuffy models as the web site states - will "allow access to skinnier wate due to its lower profile hull design." Therefore, wouldn't it also be true that an x-model 17 1/2 footer would draft less water than a Deep V 1700 or 1760?
I'd be curious as to how much of a draft difference between Deep V and x-models... are we talking a couple inches or a foot?
Perhaps the difference is less than I thought as far as getting into shallower waters. However, I think I would still prefer an x-model since the sides are lower and closer proximity to the water for lippin/flippin bass or doing figure 8's for muskies. Again, if there is a learning here, I'm open to it.
Thanks, appreciate the input. |
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Posts: 32805
Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | The freeboard (sides of the boat above the waterline) and draft (amount of water it takes to float the rig) of the 1760 G series will be almost identical to the X Series. The 1760 is a very unique hull. The X176 would be faster and will be a capped model. |
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Posts: 32805
Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | X190 Tiller? With a 90 HP OptiMax or 4 Stroke Merc will do low 40's loaded, and will base price about $29,500.00 water ready. Late Fall, early Winter 2015 release. |
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Location: Northern Illinois | Which model handles rougher water better. The x series or the deep vee g series? Looks the the x190 has a bass boat style layout. |
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Posts: 117
| As I've been boat shopping I feel like I've seen an x-190 tiller already, maybe a video or a photo...was there a tiller x-190 available in the past?
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Posts: 349
| The following is what I was told by a tuffy dealer after I asked for a quote on an X-190 Tiller. He said he got this information from tuffy.
Tuffy does not build the X-190 in a tiller because it is a padded hull and a 90 doesn't have the power to get it on it's pad quickly enough. They are making a new hull without the pad as a tiller option but is about 8 months away. They will build a tiller out of the hull now but trimming while throttling is very important as to get the boat on the pad sooner than later. Some handling problems are present when trying to plane the boat trimmed down. so it is probably best to wait for a different hull. |
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Posts: 206
| I believe this is one - maybe a prototype?
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x-190 tiller.doc (178KB - 336 downloads)
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| pdf attached...
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x-190 tiller.pages.pdf (166KB - 345 downloads)
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Location: WI | Thanks Steve. Are those decks easily removable if you want to put more seats I'm for the family. Have to have a balance too these days. Not fish and ski but cumfirtable for the family too.
What I meant by pushed forward is that the decks in your pics come up to the seats. It would be nice if they could get it back a little on the transom end. (Toward the motor) |
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