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| Message Subject: If wisc. makes trolling legal , what size lakes sh | |||
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| Hi, In wisconsin we have many small lakes and my question is this. If it is made legal to troll 1 line per angler as they are asking do we need lake size restictions? Many years ago it was legal to troll kentuck and it got hammered very badly. What do you think should it be limited to 500,750 or 1000 acres lakes only or all lakes. I think 1000 acres or bigger should be the standard . | |||
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| I like the 1000 acres or bigger but I think it depends on the lake too. I troll lakes much smaller but they have alot of open water to them. I think that can make a difference too. The more open water the more you can effectively troll without being in the way of a caster. | |||
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| Something to consider. MN has had one line trolling for as long as I know, and its not really overdone to the point the fisheries are being harmed. Infact they are outstanding fisheries. Only a handful of guys troll. There is a big difference between 1 line and 3 lines. The math is the big difference. MN 1 guy 1 line WI 1 guy 3 lines MN 2 guys 2 lines WI 2 guys 6 lines MN 3 guys 3 lines WI 3 guys 9 lines Your not as likly to troll only 3 lines with 3 guys in the boat. Therefore the pressure will not be what it was years ago when they backtrolled 9 lines. Also Catch and Release is much better then it was in the past and is improving year by year from what I see. I dont think lake size will make that big of difference. | |||
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| I would be in favor of no restrictions at all [:bigsmile:] But,,,,I don't see that happening any time soon [::)] Wisconsin seems a little slow to change, I believe it was 1st put into effect to protect the row troller guides back in 1923. I guess I just don't understand the whole "anti trolling" thing today, and that is exactly the perception that I get. It's mostly people that don't troll, have never trolled, they have no interest in trolling and they don't want you or I to troll.[:0] What's up with that? I've never heard of any anti casters..... However I can understand ones point of view of the serenity of a nice quiet day on the water, but that same guy has a 200hp on the back of his boat and he's not going to idle in. With the success of catch and release combined with reasonable increased size limits, the tolling laws should be lifted throughout the state of Wisconsin! How's the muskie fishing in Minnesota these days? LOW? Eagle? Cave Run? ect. | |||
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| I agree too Jerry. There should be no restrictions with higher size limits and todays catch and release ethics. It shouldn't matter how big the lake is just as long as people properly handle and release fish!! I am a true caster at heart, and would prefer to never troll, but when the situation calls for it to put fish in the boat for clients, I am all for it!! I also have some clients that are either too old or too young to cast all day, and trolling helps split the day up for them. I vote for no restrictions on what lakes you can troll!! Chad [email protected] | |||
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| sorry don i would troll the piss out of a lake like 200 acres or smaller,Sorry you know there's people out there that will do that! | |||
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| Don, there's a big warning for us all in the "Kentuck got hammered really badly" statement you made. With all the fishing pressure we have on Wisconsin lakes that just continues to get worse every year, I always worry about any tactic that can increase potential mortality/harvests. Remember even with a mythical 100% catch and release practice not every fish will survive the fighting, unhooking, picture taking, and releasing trauma. What size lakes if any can survive increased motality? I know I don't know, but is it just going to be someones guesstimate? Maybe if you allow trolling there needs to be an increased (50") size limit on that lake to help protect it. How about only lakes Russ Warye's book calls Wisconsins Premier Waters like The Chip, Grindstone, Lac Courte Oreilles, Lac du Flambeau Chain, Lac Vieux, Minocqua/Tomahawk Chain, Namekagon, Turtle/Flambeau Flowage. I don't think people are asking for trolling to be legalized because their arms are getting tired. They want to troll because it can be a very effective method to catch fish. Hopefully the experts know what they are doing and I guess I'll put my blind trust in them to make the right decision based on sound management practices that protect the fishes interests, not the anglers. I also worry about the increased user conflicts that could get worse. Already there are too many people who own a boat that are either stupid or just don't give a damn about boating etiquette. It seems every weekend someone cuts off your drift or buzzes over a weedbed your working. What more problems will trolling cause? If one line per person trolling is OK'd for WI then there should be a 1 year sunset clause so we can step back and see if any problems cropped up. I hope this isn't one of those "be careful what you ask for, you might get it" problems that crops up in the future. Just my rant, Buddy | |||
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| I would also like to see a max two suckers in the water per boat and the ability to have a sucker out and use an electric motor. I don't see where trolling would hurt as far as catch mortality is concerend. Most skilled trollers are good at it anyway. We would only be worrying about the unskilled one and a walleye troller and they would be out there anyway. The unskilled troller may be doing us a favor anyway, being very unproductive. | |||
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| Its time for Wisconsin to get with the times. What does trolling hurt? Is it even illegal in any other state? Any size should be trollable. Also, 1 line per angler is a little harsh in my opinion. I don't know if 2 or 3 is the better option, but more than 3 is too much in my opinion. | |||
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| Let us not forget to that just because someone is trolling doesn't mean they are going to rape the lake. I have spent many hours trolling with clients without catching fish either. Also, look at all the small bodies of water in Minnesota that allow trolling with one line, and they seem to be doing just fine! In Canada, and even in other parts of Wisconsin, where trolling is legal, there seems to be no negative effect. What is next, banning open water casting?? Trolling is never a guarantee, it is just another tactic in our arsenal, and it should be allowed in my mind. Chad [email protected] | |||
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| I am all for the trolling aspect. Here is why, there is a lake close to me that I fish all the time. No Trolling there , the lake is 290 acres, and has a max depth of 119 feet, and a mean depth of about 75 feet. The water is the clearest I have found in wisconsin.( YOU can see bottom in 30 feet and there is not a lot of weeds mostley sand. This lake has a large shad and cisco forage, and almost all the muskies are suspended, and trust me there are 40 pounders in this lake, and because of the lakes characters its hard to fish. Do I think trolling would help in catching fish YEP. Do I think it will hurt the fish NOPE. Why, because today there is more conservation minded anglers that are doing everything they can to help the sport. I think the volume of water is a big reason, not just surface areas, on some of these lakes. For example Lake number one is 5000 acres, and Lake 2 is 700 acres, Lake 1 has an average depth of 10 feet and lake 2 has an average depth of 75 feet. Now wich lake really has more water. Sorry dont due the math its just an example. I think that there is no reason, to keep trolling illegal. I think they should allow trolling. Just my 2 cents Jim | |||
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| I guess if trolling was legalized in Wisconsin, I would be in favor of the larger lakes only, 1000 acres plus. I would only be in favor of 1 line per angler. In principle, I'm not against trolling as it is just another method of catching fish. However, my past experience with WI backtrolling left a very bad taste in my mouth. As an avid open water, suspended fisherman since 1985, I had several "honey holes" in Vilas County that produced multiple trophy fish for myself and my friends. We usually had the lakes to ourselves back then, as most people did not venture into open water. Even most of the guides we saw, only slowly motored by us out in the deep (check out what we were doing, etc) and then went to casting shallow water. All of that changed when backtrolling became legal. Suddenly, many of the "guide boats" that we never saw casting open water were now trolling by us with 4-6 lines out. On one of the lakes I frequented often, the trophy fishery was literally decimated as many, many 20-30 lb fish were harvested. Past Lakeland Times outdoors photo sections and comments from my Minocqua area taxidermist friends supported what we observed happen on the lakes most familiar to us. The sad thing about the whole deal back then was watching the guided "clients" sitting back drinking an MGD while the guide did all the work (absolutely no appreciation/respect for the resource). To this day, we still have little respect for some of the area guides we saw practicing this technique day after day after day on "small water". And it was a literal "rape" session in terms of the fish that were removed. [:((] Sorry, if I offended anyone, I did not mean too. I just wanted to share my past experience. Chad, I do agree with you in that trolling is just another technique. However, since not everyone has the same respect or appreciation for the resource, it needs to be managed effectively, especially on smaller, trophy potential water. | |||
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| Don, before I post my opinion on this subject, I have a couple of questions. First, who is "they" you are referring to in your post? Secondly, If I am fishing alone, casting a shoreline or other structure with my trolling motor on, and dragging a sucker off the back, am I illegal if the lake I'm on prohibits trolling? Thanks. Timbuck. P. S., To Mike T: great post Mike. I would be interested in what other guides have to say about Mike's post? Do any of you guides have a personal length limit that you tell your clients before you book them? Also, Buddy Solberg, another great post. I agree, if they'd limit it to 1 line, I wouldn't have a problem with it. | |||
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| I would like to see trolling go state wide, but limit the # of line on inland waters and a higher size limit on some waters. | |||
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| Got stoned on another board for coming out against it on the small lakes (even a 1000 acres is small ), But I truly dont want to see it come back.The equipment,knowledge etc availlable today are putting enough intelligent pressure on these fish I realize catch and release helps but if its allowed up here your going to destroy one very important aspect of tHe sport-Namely the hard to define "Mystique" of this predator. I saw this when they re-allowed back trolling- It just became too easy and some of these lakes got "murdered"- Papoose, Plum, long,White Sand just to name a few.Inexperienced people went right the trolling option and killed fish as they rolled up in the leaders ect. Trolling is a neccessary tactic on LARGE waters like Green Bay or other places I just dont think It belongs in VIlas County. Just an opinion and I accept other peoples on tHis issue, But think it over before you vote.Most of you are skillful enough to figure out any of these small bodies of water with out trolling.Im not going to argue the point here after this post.. Im not going to change your perspective and your not going to change mine.Have a great 2003 | |||
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| How many rules is TOO MANY rules? Many of us are avid anglers who are very concerend about limits and regulations and will try to remember all these new rules changes. However the average Joe Bobber is going to head out and fish without reading the manual of rules each time he's bopping from lake to lake on a long weekend. If our agencies make rules like trolling over 1000 acres (and you are on a 995 acre lake), lakes that have different length limits (two next to eachother, one with 48" and the other with 42"), nobody is going to be able to fish without first consulting the 100 page manual of rules. Education and prolific signage will still be the critical success factor with too many rules just like it is now. It is much easier for people to follow a standard set of rules and also easier to enforce. | |||
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| Interesting topic...and I agree, perhaps Don has way too much time.... He is right on his history on Kentuck and the trolling issue in the early 1980's. Of course, those guides at that time chose to harvest those fish. Just a little perspective for those that mentioned backtrolling. Backtrolling was a method asked for by walleye anglers (Walleyes Unlimited and others) over many years of lobbying. It allowed their methods of Lindy/Roach rigging, bottom bouncing, etc. on no troll lakes. That said...what happened is that several "innovative" muskie anglers, knowing about the state's 3-line rule, applied Great Lakes tactics - planer boards, etc. and, of course, the problem skyrocketed. When the issue blew up, several of us mentioned at the meetings one line trolling with a ban on boards, but after much discussion "position fishing" became the DNR's answer to the dilemma of what you were doing to walleye and bass anglers with a ban on backtrolling (as originally construed). Yes, I agree with the posts that talk about the unwarranted harvest (because of the amount of time I spent investigating) on Tomahawk, and other lakes mentioned. But I truly believe that is separate from the issue of one line trolling (as seen in Ontario and some states). These people were making the choice to deliberately harvest. Backtrolling on our small lakes in Vilas and Oneida with 6 to 9 lines out created innumerable problems - including those of perception, crowding on offshore stretches, structure, etc. Again, this was personally observed while guiding in those years. All of that said, I am not aware of any study that proves that trolling (one line, my assumption) is any more effective than casting....and I have spent way too much time looking for a definitive answer.... Personally, I have no problem with one line per license trolling (with no boards) and would like to see the issue discussed thoroughly, including lake size. I say this from the perspective that I don't troll...not well anyway. Even caught fish trolling on Dryberry, LOTW and others but I fall asleep after about 30 minutes...even on my beloved LOTW. I guess my hyperactivity makes me a caster... Just my opinion with a little history thrown in... See you in Chicago, Russ Warye Senior Research Editor Fishing Hot Spots Russ Warye | |||
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| Here in Ohio trolling is legal on any lake that you can put a boat with a motor on. We can use 2 poles, which is nice because you can run your favorite lure on one pole and experiment with the other. I troll 90% of the time and think I’m pretty good at it. With 2 people and 4 rods Iam still able to work close in to weed lines and structure with 3 people and 6 rods out it gets a lot harder. Sharp turns are out of the question and if one of the lures caches a weed you will sometimes have to untangle all 6 rods. So to troll in close to structure were most of the fish are 2 lines per person and 2 people are about max to effectively catch fish. I saw some were about 3 rods per fisherman I think 3 rods would rough, keeping all the rods clear and keeping the boat under control. Sometimes it is hard with 2 when you’re by yourself and the wind is blowing. With the average size muskie boat and 3 poles per person and 3 people in the boat it will = 80% less fishing time because they will spend that time untangling their lines. There is a lot more to trolling then just going up and down the lake and you will louse a few lures learning to troll structure. Here in ohio 99% of the fish are releast. fffffish | |||
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| First of all anyone ever hear the saying " Guns don't kill people, people do " well the same can be said here " trolling doesn't kill fish fishermen do". If you believe trolling will kill more fish then what the hell are you guys doing soaking suckers? I am sure you catch way more fish then just casting alone like in MN and Canada. Now I believe there was some damage done in the pass but that was trolling with multiple rods in a age where C&R wasn't as poppular. I say let them troll but cut back the rods to one per angler. I would also understand banning it on the smaller lake but like mentioned before how many different regulations do you want to have. My vote is for state wide 40 inch limit, 50 inch on trophy lakes. Trolling legal on all lakes over 500 acres and only allow 1 line per angler trolling and 2 for casting. That and keeping the stocking will give WI a chance at a better fisheries. I wish you guys all the best, I got everything I wanted starting in 2003 including a 54 inch limit on the Ottawa and an extra month of open season. [:p] | |||
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| Sorry about the anonymous user thing and looking like a chicken sh## but I forgot to login. fffffish | |||
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| I think it is not just the issue of how many fish will be caught or lost to mortality. I think the issue of pollution from outboards , would weedbeds take a beating if a small lake was trolled heavily and the fact about giving other anglers a nice day on the water without have all kinds of boats trolling close to them. We have have to take this all into consideration id the D.N.R. decides to let us vote on this issue. I have to think that by trolling on small lakes it could be harmfull to them. Trolling is a very effective tool. The more fish caught the more that may not make it. On a small lake that number could be significant. I brought up the question as I feel it may be one that is presented at the spring hearings in wisconsin and wanted to get you thinking about it. Don Pfeiffer | |||
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