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Posts: 280
Location: Pewaukee WI | Does anyone make a screw eye over 2" in .092. I'd like the threads to run all the way up the shaft as well. I've used 2" .092's where the threads don't take up the entire shaft which doesn't seem any stronger than a 1.5" thats fully threaded. thank you |
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| I would be more concerned of the screw eye opening then the length of thread, no Musky will ever pull out the 2" screw eye if built properly |
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Posts: 1202
Location: Money, PA | Fred - 2/24/2013 6:33 PM
I would be more concerned of the screw eye opening then the length of thread, no Musky will ever pull out the 2" screw eye if built properly
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| Fred - 2/24/2013 6:33 PM I would be more concerned of the screw eye opening then the length of thread, no Musky will ever pull out the 2" screw eye if built properly It depends on the properties of the material you are putting the screw into. Closed loop through wire leaves no doubts.
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Posts: 1145
| MRichardson - 2/25/2013 9:16 AM
Fred - 2/24/2013 6:33 PM I would be more concerned of the screw eye opening then the length of thread, no Musky will ever pull out the 2" screw eye if built properly It depends on the properties of the material you are putting the screw into. Closed loop through wire leaves no doubts.
MRichardson, first off, I am not challenging your experience as a bait maker. Just sayin'. C'mon man.
Keywords there - "if built properly."
Realistically speaking, .092 x 2" screw eyes are not going to pull out of lure "if made properly." I've used screw eyes with cedar, maple, and plastic. Most of them only being 1.5". Dip the threads in epoxy and screw the screw eyes into the bait, wipe off any excess epoxy. Always make sure to install the screw eyes before your clear coat too. That way the e-tex builds up around the screw eye and adds strength that way as well. They are not going to be pulled out by any fish. JMO.
Side note: Not saying it CAN'T happen. But I'd think if it was a common problem from lures with screw eyes we would hear some stories about them. I know a good number of retail lures today still use screw eyes.
Would you venture to guess the number of fish caught on Suicks? They have used a .072 x 1.5 - 2" (not sure of the length) screw eye on the line tie forever. If you think about that application, it is screwed into a relatively thin part of the lure (center of the diving lip) and is made of one of the softest woods used for lure making. Most of the Suicks I have you can also turn the line tie (screw eye) either way you want for tuning. That kinda throws the need for epoxy right out the window... Not trying to argue. Just saying they have been and are still being used in all kinds of lures. I just think you'd hear more about it if it was a problem. What do you think?
Edited by MartinTD 2/25/2013 10:20 AM
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| MartinTD - 2/25/2013 10:07 AM MRichardson - 2/25/2013 9:16 AM Fred - 2/24/2013 6:33 PM I would be more concerned of the screw eye opening then the length of thread, no Musky will ever pull out the 2" screw eye if built properly It depends on the properties of the material you are putting the screw into. Closed loop through wire leaves no doubts.
MRichardson, first off, I am not challenging your experience as a bait maker. Just sayin'. C'mon man. Keywords there - "if built properly." Realistically speaking, .092 x 2" screw eyes are not going to pull out of lure "if made properly." I've used screw eyes with cedar, maple, and plastic. Most of them only being 1.5". Dip the threads in epoxy and screw the screw eyes into the bait, wipe off any excess epoxy. Always make sure to install the screw eyes before your clear coat too. That way the e-tex builds up around the screw eye and adds strength that way as well. They are not going to be pulled out by any fish. JMO. Side note: Not saying it CAN'T happen. But I'd think if it was a common problem from lures with screw eyes we would hear some stories about them. I know a good number of retail lures today still use screw eyes. Would you venture to guess the number of fish caught on Suicks? They have used a .072 x 1.5 - 2" (not sure of the length ) screw eye on the line tie forever. If you think about that application, it is screwed into a relatively thin part of the lure (center of the diving lip ) and is made of one of the softest woods used for lure making. Most of the Suicks I have you can also turn the line tie (screw eye ) either way you want for tuning. That kinda throws the need for epoxy right out the window... Not trying to argue. Just saying they have been and are still being used in all kinds of lures. I just think you'd hear more about it if it was a problem. What do you think?
All I was saying is if you build a bait as prescribed as “built properly” in some materials like balsa, a light density foam, a plastic with too much blowing agent, or a cast urethane with too many microspehers, the properties of the material just don’t allow for enough bite weather the threads are glued or what building system is used. For lighter density materials the insurance of a through wire is worth the effort of doing.
Edited by MRichardson 2/25/2013 10:35 AM
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Posts: 1202
Location: Money, PA | Don't forget Wiley Lures which are cedar wood and Dale never uses epoxy or glue on any of the screw eyes....One of the top ten muskie catchers of all time. The 5.5" killer uses .072 1" screw eyes on the bellys.
There are pros and cons to both for sure.....Over time screw eyes can certainly loosen up if enough fish are caught on them and hooks continually replaced. If the wire on a thru-wire bait wears through or breaks, the lure is basically done. I've always said, when it comes to muskie fishing especially, NO lure is meant to or going to last forever....They take a beating no mater what materieal they are made from or how they are assembled....They should last a good long time as long as quality materials are used coinsiding with good design as well as careful fish handling boatside.
And I totally agree with Mike....Some materials actually require through wiring and could only be dependable with it.
Edited by ShutUpNFish 2/25/2013 10:46 AM
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Posts: 321
Location: Glen Ellyn Il | Hey Muskie Slayer
If you are worried about the screw pulling out of the bait, check my post where I use hardwood dowel pins, than I install a metal washer at the end of the screw. Do a search on this forum. My title of the post is " an alternative to wire trough construction" Dated 9/3/2012. Hope this will help
Gino |
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| I believe with a screw that long you will have more breakage because of the pressure needed to insert the long screw. Musky Glenn |
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Location: Freedom, WI | I am a believer in screweyes for muskie baits and still do not think done right will come out. After talking to salt water guys they are not perfect, found out 250 pound tuna will rip out screweyes in solid plastic. Do not think a musky can pull like a tuna but with that being said, I have went to thru-wire on on the large and XL size HardHeads just in case they make it in the salt. |
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Posts: 556
| I don't think they would ever pull out while fishing for MUSKY--- We have caught so many Musky and Pike while trolling small walleye size crankbaits and I have never had even a RAPALA with simple light thru wire come apart on a fish--and Skis up to 48" have been caught by us this way. Alot of Jointed Cranks built specifically for Musky only use a 1" screw eye in the tail section joint. Don't here about to many of them coming apart. Old lures like mentioned the suick mainly used only a bent cotter pin to hold the hooks and smaller diameter eye hook-----I have never heard of those coming apart either. Now it could happen--of course--- but I think most of the baits built today are way overbuilt for Musky---Saltwater fish--thats probably a different story. |
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Location: Money, PA | All you guys have to do is to do a test for yourselves....Its quite simple...We did a test with .092" screw eyes in a resin bait. No epoxy. We clamped a resin body into a vise and attached an eye screw with 150# wire with a 300lb guy pulling....On the first test, the 150# wire broke so we upped the wire strength to 250#. On the next test the the screw eye actually opened up before anything broke. Now, if you think about it, your bait or lure is ONLY as strong as your entire rigs weakest point. Any hooks that you buy for your lures on the market today will bend straight before these screw eyes EVER open up. Any line that you guys use for muskies will break before these eye screws EVER open up. And any swivel snap will fail before these screw eyes open up. I did extensive testing on my baits and determined that through wiring was excessive work and unecessary for my application.
Finally, comparing a 250lb tuna to ANY muskie is simply insane and not even comparable IMO. I feel that most of the through wire baits built for muskie fishing have equal possiblities of failing against a beast like a huge tuna, given the right opportunity of leverage on the lure. With that said, I'm still confident that under normal circumstances and a normal fight against a Tuna under the right situation/tackle; my bait would hold up just fine.
Edited by ShutUpNFish 2/26/2013 7:26 AM
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Posts: 941
Location: Freedom, WI | Did not compare to a tuna but after talking to a few salt guys they do use some heavy tackle for very big fish. Apparently Halibut guys use 200 pound superbraid and 5' rods and basically winch them up, that would be way more stress than any muskie could put on. I am thinking it would be leverage on the hook hangers that would be the problem. The BIG fish salt guys look at things a whole lot different than we do. |
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| we build both ways. as stated baits get chewed. on st clair i have had guys state they have caught 50 fish on a 6 inch bait we manufacture. yes thats a screw eye bait. we also build wire thru. its a preference. trolling baits are subjected to abuse.. screw eye baits without a split ring have more torque on them . failures on any bait is when its twisting in a net. screw eyes without rings vastly reduce hook rash.. here on st clair ,with lots of fish contact has proven to be a major testing ground for products.
if you use your drag on a reel normally issues fall by the wayside. |
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