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| First off, I'm not trying to cause a ruckus with Mr. Durst or any of the other talented bait painters out there. Secondly, let it be known that I like a sweet paint job as much as the next guy.
With those two statements out there I would like to know if we need these fancy painted baits to catch us or the fish. There is a part of me that thinks that those new patterns trigger a few neutral fish that have seen everything else out there. Then there is another part of me that knows that a 40#er didn't get that size by waiting for firetiger colored cisco. As of late I find myself buying more and more baits in sucker, walleye, perch, shiner, and other more natural colors.
Regardless if we need them or not they sure do look cool in the box, but what percentage of the fish you catch do you think can be attributed to fancy paint? |
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| It may sound like I'm talking out of both sides of my mouth, but.....
I try new colors all the time. Mr. Durst has gotten a nice chunk of change this year and I always look for custom stuff in shops. If it MIGHT give me an edge, I'm buying it. Can't help it, I have bait-itis.
At the same time, I do believe that paint jobs are as much to catch a musky nuts' eyes as they are for the fish. Selling more baits is the goal for many of the manufacturers. Damn capitalist bait makers "force" me to spend all my money.
nwild got me thinking, however. The vast majority of my fish have come on black or a "natural" pattern as opposed to a hot color or fancy paint job! Also, my bait boxes are full of a good mix between natural and funky colors. Conclusion: Will always look for new colors.
BigMo |
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| Color and paint are in the eye of the beholder.I like all the custom jobs myself.One thing I learned this year and was reaffirmed by someothers is to NOT full my whole box with NATURALS,cause some of that bright loud pretty stuff preformed when others of the natural stuff never got a sniff.On gin colored waters its hard to start with pink/purple but you would be surprized.So for me its customs all the way,In fact am waiting for some stuff from Stan as we speak!His customs ROCK! Handy |
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| Do they make a difference? Maybe
But I have caught just as many fish on baits that hardly had any paint on them.
This year, I made a bait and was testing it with no paint on it, just a hunk of wood going through water and landed a 39 incher on it.
Jim |
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| I am not sure about fancy paint jobs but I have seen color make a difference this year for sure, especially trolling. Never been a loud color person untill this year and two lakes we tried firetiger was the goto color. |
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| The other day I went to Pets Mart and I saw a woman with her dog. She actually let her dog pick out which toy he wanted. I was surprised at his choice. Imagine taking a musky into a big store like R&H and letting her pick out the baits she liked best !! The hardest lesson I time and time again am still learning is to let the fish tell you what they want. I believe movement is primary and color is secondary. We have often heard from the Masters things like, "if it moves it's food" and "any color is good as long as it's black". I don't like black. I rarely throw black. Black has an exellent silhouette and I think it tricks the fish because they can't make out what it isn't.I bet I missed out on plenty of nice fish because I don't like to throw it. I went to Reeses a few weeks back and saw no less than 300 Hughes Rivers' hangin. Artwork. Picking out 3 baits from that line-up was one of the hardest things, as far as baits go, that I have ever done. I ended up with 3 different baits all in the same patterns as the natural forage in the lakes that I fish. Some baitmakers believe the heads shoud be painted a solid color so the fish can home in on it. I have a cisco colored undertaker that has just that,and I caught my 1st fish of last season on it and have had multiple fish days on it. Some days you catch em some days you don't. I guess that's why they call it Fishen. |
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| I fancy paint job is really important if you looking to sell lures. I personally think fish see contrast.
One thing that the fancy paint job will do to the fisherman is give him confidance! |
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| I agree with Bill Schwartz. Pretty paint jobs give the fisherman confidence. Confidence puts more fish in the boat. Thus, we will always be looking for the next "confidence color".
I also believe color can offer certain advantages. Learning how to maximize flash, choose the most visible color to get noticed, provide contrast for a good target, etc. etc. all may help give you an edge. Is it necessary? Nope. But, it is one of those things that may make a difference at times... and more importantly.... we have control over. So why not take advantage of all those pretty colors???
jlong |
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| Ok Guys, this is a good thread here. I, for one, will answer the reason for my custom work honestly and why I do it.
The truth is two fold. YES and I mean YES I do paint the fancy colors to "catch" the fisherpeople. I have owned up to this before. It's the honest truth so you heard it from me.
BUT, the MAIN reason for these fancy colors are to actualy catch fish. I design these fancy colors to catch fish in the foremost of importance. The colors are researched and are applied to "certain areas" of the lure for the most effect. I have stated before that, first, you have to have a musky in the area, than you have to have a lure and presentaion that works AND a color that becomes appealing to the fish when they don't feel like eating at the moment.
NO, it's not the color alone but it definetly helps. After designing the color with the fish in mind, NOW I have to add to the design to make it pretty enough for the fisherpeople to "buy" it or it will never see the water in the first place, hence, the idea of "catching the fisherpeople becomes secondary in my work but primary in importance or the fish will never get to see it. If the Musky could in fact go to the store and buy what they want to eat then my job would be a lot easier to do . The fact that I pay a good price for the blanks to start with, then $ 350 for enough pigment to produce a pint of special effects paint it doesn't take long to eat up the exspenses. My margin for profit is very low per lure as I have to buy other companies products. If I had my own lure (which I do ) it would increase my profit some.
Most people catch a musky or other fish and "see" a musky or other fish. When I catch them I see a lot more than the kind of fish that they are.
Example, How many of you can tell me (in you own mind) what color a white crappie is?
how about a carp?
When you catch a fish and you look at it or admire that big fish are you actualy "SEEING" what you are looking at
or just looking?
Good question here, any answers?
Any way, I will honestly tell you that I DO paint to catch you ," BUT" most importantly I paint to catch the fish and I can only speak for myself.
Now I will also tell you that the tackle companies all have great colors as does Bill Swartz as long ago I painted a few show colors for him and got to see his work up close. He does a fine job and they work too as you all know. There are other questions to be asked as far as the fish is concerned. WHY did he hit the lure in the first place. Was he hungry? Was he protecting his space? Did he strike on instinct? Was he just having a bad hair day and you ticked him off?
I can honestly say that I don't have the answer for that but I don't think any one out there can truly and honestly answer exactly why the fish hit the lue if the first place. Therefore we all have our own ideas of what work's and what's tested and what has been proven to date from the testing. "Everything works if it works togehter and catches the fish in the first place.
Of Course, just my five cents worth.
Thanks guys anyway It's good to have many ideas of what works and what doesn't. That's what makes us human is the "difference in opinion.
Isn't it great? Have a great Christmas Holiday to everybody out there.
PS, all this typing, now my two fingers hurt.
[:p] [:bigsmile:] [:halo:] [:praise:] |
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| I just like to paint new and different patterns, both for myself and other people. Do I NEED all these colors ... heck no, but it sure is fun to paint them and to use them where no one has used that color before. And from time to time you come across one that outproduces the others ... for a while that is. I still believe it's the lure's action, and the way the angler fishes the lure, that will catch the fish, rather than the color. But every time I have convinced myself of that, Mr and Ms Pike throw that conviction out the window.
This summer I had lots of pike strike the traditional redhead pattern (in hot weather, crystal clear water and no clouds in the sky), yellow lures and reef hawg's cisco pattern (same conditions). No matter when or where I fished with these lures, I had at least some takes from pike. But then fall came round the corner and I haven't had a strike on them since early september. Last time it was sucker and perch patterns that got bit.
I believe contrast and/or flash in a pattern is crucial. Think about it: redhead = bleeding head with a white (huge flash) body. Predatory fish home in on the red head, just look at the teeth marks on my redhead colored baits. Most of the white hasn't been touched! Cisco = silver flash (when it's sunny, you can follow the lure by the flash it produces) with perchbars. Perch = contrast, firetiger = both flash and contrast, ...
I like custom colors too, Stan Durst's colors are awesome. I bet he likes to paint them too, not just for sales!
Bill Schwartz's lures look awesome too. Just visit his booth at the shows and have a look at those custom show colors. Tasty!! BTW Bill, any chance of getting some redhead pattern slammers???? [:0] [;)] [:bigsmile:]
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| divani,
I did some redhead Slammers a few years ago and they were just not one of my better sellers. So I don't think I'll be doing any real soon.[:blackeye:] |
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| not even if I ask it really nice??? [:halo:] a couple of 5" and 6" if you would have the time next year? |
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| "what percentage of the fish you catch do you think can be attributed to fancy paint?"
Relatively speaking,,, ABSOLUTELY 0%, none, nada, zippo!,, 99.9% of the 226 muskies my boys and I landed this season struck our baits out of sheer instinct. The other .01%,,, who cares??? [:0]
It wasn't size, [:0] it wasn't action, [:0] and it wasn't color,, [:0] it was depth and it was speed!
Most fishermen spend 99.9% of there "thinking" in this .01% area. Where do you think you should be spending your time? [8)] |
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| On the water Jerry!!!! But that isn't an option right now so all we have to do is worry about that .01%
Have another twist on this topic, does color make more difference casting or trolling? Or is it the same?
I rely on color for one reason. If they can't see it they can't eat it. I try and maximize the baits appearance to get a fish to notice the bait from the maximum possible distance. The larger you can make the strike zone the more fish you will catch. With the right color choices you can effect the size of that strike zone.
O-yea a fancy paint job looks better when the bait is hanging on the picture of the slob that earned it retirement status. My basment paint jobs, though maybe just as effective, clash with my wife's choice of wallpaper.
Later.
Nail A Pig!
Mike |
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| JerryB,
How can you be so sure that 99% for the fish you caught last year, color had nothing to do with it? |
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| Bill,
Sorry for the delay, just returned from "option Kinkaid". [;)] Anyway, I'm sure of it.
I'll make you the same deal I make anyone else that plays the color game in my boat. Ok, color dose have something to do with catching a fish, a very small part but we can't catch a fish using a lure that's invisible,, and I'm not totally sure about that. Ever catch a muskie in a dark yellow green at 10+ mph? ya wonder if that fish ever saw it or did he just feel it.
The deal is you pick out the absolute worst color that ever existed. What is the worst color? After thousands of years of fishing,,, wouldn't ya think by now this would be common knowledge? What's the best color? No one knows, we all have our favorites, but is it our favorite because we catch fish on it, or do we catch fish on it because we use it all the time? One of us will use the best color, the other the worst.
Which lure gonna produce more? I couldn't tell you, but at the end of the day,, so to speak, (I wouldn't expect you to be convinced one way or the other only after one days fishing, you would have to continue your own experiment) you too would conclude that there are much more important things to worry about besides color.
I've only been at this 7 years on going but fortunately we had a good teacher and we were taught from the beginning the truth about color. Taught that color is an "aid" and not to focus our time or energy in this area. However we were given some guidelines to follow: Clear water or bright clear days/ bright lures, like silver, Dark water or dark over cast days/ dark baits like copper, and neutral colored water/ brass.
We fish for the muskie about 1/2 the season and fish for all the other species the rest of the time and I have rarely seen where the fish of any species preferred one color over another, It dose happen but it takes catching multiple fish in a day to establish this trend. Buck Perry who has been proving that color means very little for 50+ years, I'd just go with what he says.
As stated in the above post every fish we land gets credited to presenting lures at the right depth, at the right speed, and doing so at the right time. That's the hard part, color is a no brainier,,,, in my opinion. In my boat I say "If you like it, use it."
Good luck next season, Jerry Borst |
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| The only custom baits I've purchased are from Stan Durst. I purchase them for the combination of colors along with the terrific flash they give off in the water. His baits do show great contrast AND flash where it matters...in the water. On top of that, if you order a bait from Stan, you know you will get it asap at a very reasonable price. Tom |
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| I think those great paint jobs are effective in catching muskies, but not in the way most of you would expect. If a fisherman likes a particular color pattern, he/she will tend to pay more attention to each cast, each figure 8, and keep throwing the bait longer before changing lures. This translates to more time "in" the water for a bait. This in the long run, will result in more muskies on the hook! |
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| Well, after reading how this thread has developed I have to wade in again on the side of "yes color does matter". I listen to this "color doesn't matter" stuff all the time, but rarely hear a decent argument supporting that theory.
Jerry B your results are tremendous but your color theory, I think, is a case of trying to prove a rule with an exception. And even though I would not consider your presentation to be very color dependant, I theorize over time that you could easily find preferred colors in most of your water, and also that the preference would clearly be significant. [:)] |
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