Posted 9/22/2011 8:11 AM (#517651 - in reply to #517647) Subject: Re: Request to contact Wisconsin legislators
Posts: 3240
Location: Racine, Wi
Hopeful, that makes no cents whatsoever. If Doyle was still governor, we wouldn't need a stamp, as he could just procure the necessary funds from other funds such as the transportation fund or the patients compensation funds.
Posted 9/22/2011 9:02 AM (#517664 - in reply to #517109) Subject: Re: Request to contact Wisconsin legislators
Posts: 32886
Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin
I don't think anyone is not appreciative of the hard work done by the folks looking at this. I sure appreciate the effort, I simply disagree with the method.
Posted 9/22/2011 9:03 AM (#517665 - in reply to #517109) Subject: Re: Request to contact Wisconsin legislators
Posts: 1036
Yep. Fun site.
Sounds good Steve.
BTW, I guided up north as well. When I was young and had more time to spend on the water. Before real life and higher education called. My point to you is simple, other people can have ideas that differ from yours. Being a guide doesn't make you right. But, being a moderator on here certainly lets you throw your voice around. And don't get me wrong, I like hearing your opinions. I do respect your opinions.
Are you telling me that spearing isn't hurting the fishery in northern Wisconsin? I'm curious. Just a simple yes/no answer.
Cuz my statement is this... Why spend more money on a muskie stamp when it doesn't address the spearing issue?
In my opinion, it is throwing good money after bad money.
Is the DNR understaffed and underfunded? I'd say yes. So, how much money from the stamp is actually going to muskie research and stocking? How much of it is going to administrative fees? Maybe local clubs like Muskies Inc. (proud Milwaukee chapter member here), can help out more. There has to be more of a solution than sending our local DNR more money.
We may not be able to do much of anything about spearing, but that doesn't mean that it is okay to sweep it under the rug and pretend it doesn't happen and doesn't negatively effect the fishery.
I've fished in Vilas for many years. I now fish primarily in southeastern Wisconsin. Our lakes down here produce larger fish than the Vilas County Lakes. I'll put Okauchee and Oconomowoc "average" fish up against "average" fish in Vilas County. I'll put the muskie density of Pewaukee up against any lake up north. And I know of one angler in particular that has put a ton of fish in his boat that are 45 inches or larger. Not a guide mind you, but just a regular fisherman who gets out when he can.
No spearing issues down here. And our Muskies Inc. chapter does a nice job of stocking Pewaukee Lake.
Edited by vegas492 9/22/2011 9:09 AM
Scott M.
Posted 9/22/2011 10:20 AM (#517679 - in reply to #517109) Subject: RE: Request to contact Wisconsin legislators
Kudos to Rodger, for asking for some assistance to contact certain government officals with a long standing issue on how to improve musky fishing and this is how people responded unreal. Vulgar, critizing, and harrassing language I can clearly see why this is could be a tough battle.
But we as sportsmen need to work together to solve this issue and we can do it by working together. Look at our represenatives in Washington who don't or won't work together to take direction of this country it's a shame. So many people put their lives on the line and are continuing yet today for our freedom and here we sit and acting like a bunch of whinners about a possible $10.00 musky stamp but what price did they pay for our freedom so we can fish, hunt, and allow us to enjoy our beautiful country, many of them never got the chance too. Next time you see a military vet thank them for time served and do it with pride.
The key driving factor is we have to work together to solve issues and we need to make sure our represenatives in Washington do the same.
Posted 9/22/2011 10:25 AM (#517681 - in reply to #517109) Subject: Re: Request to contact Wisconsin legislators
Posts: 13688
Location: minocqua, wi.
vulgar, criticising, harassing ... i missed it.
clarifying, truthful and yah maybe some cynicism thrown in on the edges = yah ...
taking someone out of context is fair to expect a rebuttal which is the case here. read a little further and you'll also see the subject has generated some pretty good debate.
if you can't defend your statements then perhaps don't make them.
rodger made a bold statement which was rebutted, argued and is now being debated. i would imagine all are on a much more knowledgeable ground than what was originally proposed.
or, you can believe everything you read and yell at people who don't agree with you ... an alternative would be to play victim.
Posted 9/22/2011 10:39 AM (#517685 - in reply to #517109) Subject: Re: Request to contact Wisconsin legislators
Posts: 32886
Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin
'My point to you is simple, other people can have ideas that differ from yours. '
Where has anyone said anything different (other than you)? I'm going to post my ideas, you and anyone else who wishes to can post yours, and if the wish is there to argue, it's more productive and certainly less rude to do so without attacking anyone personally.
And, just a point, I am not a moderator here.
----------------
'I'll put the muskie density of Pewaukee up against any lake up north.'
Pewaukee is a near 100% put and take fishery and is regularly stocked by the DNR and muskie clubs. It's better now than ever because of CPR, and will continue to get better if the big girls are not harvested in numbers. There's still harvest there, and it isn't insignificant. It's a put and take fishery and there's pretty good numbers of folks who are not Muskie conservationists out there still. And one more important point, the Muskie stamp money, if it went in to the Muskie management fund, would benefit funding throughout the State, not just the Ceded Territory. I believe it might be illegal to require everyone to pay specifically for work done on waters north of 64 only.
Very few of Vilas lakes capable of kicking out big fish now are considered strictly 'put and take'. Some may receive supplemental stocking, some will receive none at all. We are about 2/3 through the process of a more than decade long process reducing stocking numbers in N WI lakes with good/acceptable NR, raising limits to assure good potential for bigger fish where applicable, and reducing harvest using social/peer pressure. The DNR has also implemented Dr. Sloss's suggestions. It's working.
Pelican Lake in Oneida County is a solid example. It was stocked to near sublimity in the 80's and early nineties, and the quality of the fishery dropped like a stone. Numbers were ridiculous, but size structure suffered as did NR. The recent KWM catch indicates more like what I fist saw when I fished Pelican alot in the 70's. NICE hybrids, and some very nice big ole ugly bronze muskies. Pelican hasn't been stocked since 1998, and won't be unless the numbers fall off. Walleye fishing is excellent to ridiculously good, but the limit of 2, one over 14" explains that. Reallocation of the harvest. they need to take a look at the 18" 1 bag for bass though...the largemouth population is exploding there too. Pelican now sports a pretty recent 50" limit. She's doing pretty well, from what we can see.
I bet folks like Mr. Nelson would argue with you about Vilas. I sure do. I wish I had the time I used to on the water up here.
Spearing has effected our resources in the fact it's reallocated our harvest numbers. All indications are the real harvest numbers have not actually gone up anywhere near what the 'reactionaries' want us to believe since the 80's, and in fact have gone down due to higher size limits and the CPR ethic...even considering the spearing. Of course muskie fishing would be better without spearing, that's obvious and I never said anything to the contrary. Fact is, we have to deal with the reality Treaty Rights are here to stay and are not going to change just because some muskie fishermen think they should. Dealing with reality and managing the resource accordingly isn't 'sweeping it under the rug'. But you already know that...right?
There actually are benefits as well, as I said, look at what GLIFWC does. I know quite a bit of the work my son does is under that budget.
'Is the DNR understaffed and underfunded? I'd say yes. So, how much money from the stamp is actually going to muskie research and stocking? How much of it is going to administrative fees? '
That's part of why I don't like the stamp idea. We agree there.
I am a long time supporter of the Milwaukee Chapter of MI, so you are singing to the choir there. Great group of folks. By the way, if you fish those SE WI waters you might catch a Muskie OutdoorsFIRST helped raise the money to stock.
----------------------------
vulgar, criticising, harassing ... i missed it.
--
Me too. Stocking and managing muskies has nothing to do with our Military. It's not unpatriotic to argue the fine points of what amounts to a tax on Muskie anglers. Has nothing to do with Washington ( thank goodness) either.
If more money is needed, we need to:
1) Get the economy rolling here in WI again.
2) Raise license fees and allocate that money to the management issues at hand.
The other issue I have with the tag is it is a HARVEST tag or it's impossible to enforce and limiting. How many of the average CPR anglers are going to buy one if they are never going to keep a muskie? Buy in to this, and in my opinion, you by proxy buy in to the 'need' to harvest Muskies. If I want to pay some dollars to help stocking efforts, my money will go the Madison MI, Milwaukee MI, or Mr. Forcier and others like him.
By the way, I support Roger and appreciate his efforts and I have supported the WMA since they were formed. I just disagree with this one. Needs way more fleshing out before we go to State Government to try to make it law.
Posted 9/22/2011 11:01 AM (#517689 - in reply to #517685) Subject: Re: Request to contact Wisconsin legislators
Posts: 444
I think they should follow Minnesota's walleye stamp. You are not forced to buy it and if you do the money goes directly to Walleye stocking, or in this case Muskie stocking, you even can pay a couple dollars extra and get a nice little collector stamp to display.
Posted 9/22/2011 11:46 AM (#517696 - in reply to #517665) Subject: Re: Request to contact Wisconsin legislators
Posts: 3240
Location: Racine, Wi
vegas492 - 9/22/2011 9:03 AM
I've fished in Vilas for many years. I now fish primarily in southeastern Wisconsin. Our lakes down here produce larger fish than the Vilas County Lakes. I'll put Okauchee and Oconomowoc "average" fish up against "average" fish in Vilas County. I'll put the muskie density of Pewaukee up against any lake up north. And I know of one angler in particular that has put a ton of fish in his boat that are 45 inches or larger. Not a guide mind you, but just a regular fisherman who gets out when he can.
No spearing issues down here. And our Muskies Inc. chapter does a nice job of stocking Pewaukee Lake.
Jeff, I'm going to have to go with Steve here. There are a bunch of very nice fish being caught in Vilas and Oneida counties each year as of late. You may not hear of all or many of them as the guys catching them are keeping them pretty quiet as they don't care about the stats and numbers game. I know a couple of guys that live up there that consistently put 45-50"+ fish in the net regularly. I know Okauchee and Oconomowoc put out some nice fish, but there are lakes up nort just like these lakes that put out some very nice fish consistently.
Posted 9/22/2011 12:50 PM (#517706 - in reply to #517651) Subject: Re: Request to contact Wisconsin legislators
Posts: 582
tuffy1 - 9/22/2011 8:11 AM
Hopeful, that makes no cents whatsoever. If Doyle was still governor, we wouldn't need a stamp, as he could just procure the necessary funds from other funds such as the transportation fund or the patients compensation funds.
EXACTLY.. that is one of my points against a stamp. Depending on who is in charge they will control the money.. Diamond Jim had no issues robbing funds. Whose to say the next one like him won't. Doyle got away with criminal acts without the consequences setting the standard for more like him.
I would have no problem if this was a volunteer purchase. Hell, i may even buy one just to help. But to make it law, and once that happens, i think you are just inviting more regulation, tricky deals with the money etc... I had a place on a nice lake in Onieda county and i saw spearing first hand. It tore apart the lake fishery and i will say it's a problem. If we can't do anything there, is this stamp actually going to help? doubtful. I have seen too many fish taken on the tip of spear. And once the lake was speared heavily, they even stopped spearing it for a few years because it wasn't good anymore. What does that tell you?
Posted 9/22/2011 1:23 PM (#517711 - in reply to #517109) Subject: Re: Request to contact Wisconsin legislators
Posts: 1036
Joe, buddy I totally respect you and have enjoyed my time in the boat with you. But do a litle math for me.
How many muskie lakes do we have around Milwaukee? Take that number, whatever that may be and compare it to how many lakes around here produce LARGE fish...consistently. I'll take our ratio of big fish waters compared to the ratio of big fish waters up north.
Of course guys are getting big fish up north. More lakes, more fish. It is the ratio that I'm looking at.
And Steve doesn't "have" me. Steve has very good points and very good opinions. Key word being "opinion"... for both of us. Niether one of us is 100% right, nor 100% wrong. His experience is different than mine. And I freely admit that he spends a whole lot more time on the waters of Vilas and Oneida county than I do now.
When I talk to some of my buddies who own bait shops, tourism is down. Guiding is down. People bringing boats north? Down. Point at the economy as part of that problem. The other part of the problem, in my opinion, is that the fishing just isn't as good as it used to be.
How many times have you trailed your boat to Eagle River this year to fish big muskies?
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If Doyle was still governor, we wouldn't need a stamp, as he could just procure the necessary funds from other funds such as the transportation fund or the patients compensation funds.
