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Muskie Fishing -> Muskie Boats and Motors -> Johnson buys Lakemaster
 
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Message Subject: Johnson buys Lakemaster
BirdDog
Posted 7/11/2011 5:28 PM (#506655)
Subject: Johnson buys Lakemaster


Johnson Outdoors bought Lakemaster.

One step closer to having the iPilot drive your boat on a route entered into a Humminbird with an accurate Lakemaster chip.

Glad I've got a 'Bird!!!
Southshore
Posted 7/11/2011 6:19 PM (#506663 - in reply to #506655)
Subject: RE: Johnson buys Lakemaster




Posts: 218


Don't try that on LOTW.
Reef Hawg
Posted 7/12/2011 6:13 AM (#506722 - in reply to #506655)
Subject: RE: Johnson buys Lakemaster




Posts: 3518


Location: north central wisconsin
If it will follow an entered route, it shouldn't matter if you have the chip or not. Even if the chip is dead on, my routes/trails/icon bread crumbs rarely follow a contour on the chip. I doubt the Lakemaster chip is the only route they'd take to link the units.
lambeau
Posted 7/12/2011 7:50 AM (#506731 - in reply to #506655)
Subject: RE: Johnson buys Lakemaster


interesting...the press release included a hint/reference to the potential for future Lakemaster mapping products exclusive to the Humminbird units.

 

Captain
Posted 7/12/2011 9:48 AM (#506744 - in reply to #506731)
Subject: RE: Johnson buys Lakemaster




Posts: 437


lambeau - 7/12/2011 7:50 AM

interesting...the press release included a hint/reference to the potential for future Lakemaster mapping products exclusive to the Humminbird units.

 

No real surprise since there are already products exclusive to Lowrance.

If this buyout hurts my Lowrance flexibility I better start loving Navionics.
Reef Hawg
Posted 7/12/2011 9:50 PM (#506899 - in reply to #506731)
Subject: RE: Johnson buys Lakemaster




Posts: 3518


Location: north central wisconsin
lambeau - 7/12/2011 7:50 AM

interesting...the press release included a hint/reference to the potential for future Lakemaster mapping products exclusive to the Humminbird units.

 



Some of the features of LM are already exclusive to 'bird(contour shading being one of them).

Many were hoping to see contour shading as an option on the 4.0 update for the HDS. I've been told bigger and better things in the works..... At any rate, in 2-5 years, we'll look back at this thread and laugh at ourselves for even talking about this.
lambeau
Posted 7/13/2011 7:44 AM (#506924 - in reply to #506899)
Subject: RE: Johnson buys Lakemaster


At any rate, in 2-5 years, we'll look back at this thread and laugh at ourselves for even talking about this.

maybe...maybe not...there was a time when the only decent freshwater option was something from Lowrance. things change and now they're the one chasing Humminbird. hopefully the process continues because in the end, competition is almost always good for consumers.

think about it...if Lakemaster has the best chips for the upper midwest, why wouldn't Johnson use that to leverage people into buying Humminbirds?

 

Captain
Posted 7/13/2011 7:52 AM (#506925 - in reply to #506924)
Subject: RE: Johnson buys Lakemaster




Posts: 437


lambeau - 7/13/2011 7:44 AM

At any rate, in 2-5 years, we'll look back at this thread and laugh at ourselves for even talking about this.

maybe...maybe not...there was a time when the only decent freshwater option was something from Lowrance. things change and now they're the one chasing Humminbird. hopefully the process continues because in the end, competition is almost always good for consumers.

think about it...if Lakemaster has the best chips for the upper midwest, why wouldn't Johnson use that to leverage people into buying Humminbirds?

 

Chasing Humminbird? Hardly. I dont want to get into a Ford vs Chevy battle, but I think you are misguided on this one.
Could 'Bird use this as leverage to buy their products? Possibly, but they just got the newer lakemaster chips supported on some of the 'Bird models. I think you will see distinct differences in the product offered for Lowrance and 'Bird, but to think they would hold something back to "switch" someone from Lowrance to 'Bird I think is a little short-sighted. I mean, who would replace a $1000 GPS with another $1000 GPS just because a $100 map chip?
Like I said, if Johnson screws with flexibility for Lowrance, I will just have to grow to love Navionics.
Muskiemetal
Posted 7/13/2011 8:40 AM (#506935 - in reply to #506655)
Subject: Re: Johnson buys Lakemaster





Posts: 676


Location: Wisconsin
Johnson would be stupid to not sell the chips to Lowrance customers, why would you eliminate all of those sales? I used to sell Lowrance 5:1 even 10:1 over HB. That's a ton of people who need mapping. Johnson might be going for the HB/Kota/iPilot connection but I would think they would be silly to allow a group to vacate them to Navionics.
sworrall
Posted 7/13/2011 8:41 AM (#506936 - in reply to #506655)
Subject: Re: Johnson buys Lakemaster





Posts: 32886


Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin
We'll be talking to Navionics at their booth this week, and will be shooting their press conference. We also will be meeting with Lowrance. A report on those new products will be up asap from the show.

We'll also take a look at Bird's booth.
Captain
Posted 7/13/2011 9:13 AM (#506939 - in reply to #506936)
Subject: Re: Johnson buys Lakemaster




Posts: 437


sworrall - 7/13/2011 8:41 AM

We'll be talking to Navionics at their booth this week, and will be shooting their press conference. We also will be meeting with Lowrance. A report on those new products will be up asap from the show.

We'll also take a look at Bird's booth.

Sweet! Thanks for the head's up!
lambeau
Posted 7/13/2011 10:06 AM (#506944 - in reply to #506936)
Subject: Re: Johnson buys Lakemaster


sworrall - 7/13/2011 8:41 AM We'll be talking to Navionics at their booth this week, and will be shooting their press conference. We also will be meeting with Lowrance. A report on those new products will be up asap from the show. We'll also take a look at Bird's booth.

which is to say you'll be reporting on and covering products from 2 of the larger "corporate partners" of OutdoorsFirst (Navionics and Lowrance), but just taking a look at the booth of a non-advertising company? that's an entirely sensible approach for you to do, but let's acknowledge that OFM's coverage has a vested interest.

i'm sure that Lakemaster will continue to make chips available for all brands, including Lowrance. i'm just betting that the ones for Humminbird will be have much better features. and yes, people DO switch brands over something like map chips...lots and lots of people buying new rigs every year or upgrading electronics every year, and most of them consider all the pros and cons of each option when making a decision about what to buy.

 



Edited by lambeau 7/13/2011 10:07 AM
MuskyManiac09
Posted 7/13/2011 11:12 AM (#506955 - in reply to #506655)
Subject: Re: Johnson buys Lakemaster





Posts: 183


Location: Grand Forks ND
I see Lakemaster suspended online sales of Lowrance and Garmin maps from their website. Of course you can still buy them in the stores, but not directly through Lakemaster anymore, all they have online now are chips for Humminbird.
Muskiemetal
Posted 7/13/2011 11:23 AM (#506957 - in reply to #506955)
Subject: Re: Johnson buys Lakemaster





Posts: 676


Location: Wisconsin
Well. I stand corrected. Lakemaster is going to be for HB only. Good luck with that. Navionics is probably happy for that, just took out competition. I'll be picking up a new Navionics chip now for my new system.
lambeau
Posted 7/13/2011 11:28 AM (#506958 - in reply to #506655)
Subject: RE: Johnson buys Lakemaster


wow...wasting no time.

http://www.lakemap.com/lakemasterdigitalgpsmaplakecard.aspx

LakeMaster Lake Maps has been acquired by Johnson Outdoors Marine Electronics, Inc. Because of the transition to new ownership, LakeMaster Lake Maps online sales of Lowrance® and Garmin® Digital GPS maps has been suspended. These products will remain readily available through LakeMaster Lake Map retail outlets listed under
Where to buy on the LakeMaster Lake Maps’ website.

LakeMaster® Digital GPS maps for Humminbird® products, LakeMaster® Paper maps, LakeArt®, together with Contour Pro™ and Contour Elite® software will still be available through our online store and of course throughout our network of Dealers and Distributors.

LakeMaster Lake Maps apologizes for any inconvenience this suspension of online sales of the Lowrance® and Garmin® Digital GPS maps may cause our valued customers.

 

Muskiemetal
Posted 7/13/2011 11:33 AM (#506959 - in reply to #506655)
Subject: Re: Johnson buys Lakemaster





Posts: 676


Location: Wisconsin
Navionics must be happy.
jonnysled
Posted 7/13/2011 11:33 AM (#506960 - in reply to #506655)
Subject: Re: Johnson buys Lakemaster





Posts: 13688


Location: minocqua, wi.
not bashing Lakemaster or anything but my experience i'd choose Navionics over Lakemaster ... tying a vertical integration into a product is limiting for consumers. i like my new Hummingbird but don't like the move made to integrate chips to units going forward.

lambo ... you're becoming jaded in your approach. just sayin' ... it is entertaining though so please keep it up. adds to the site click counts for sure when you and dad scrap on rain suits, electronics and cameras.
Muskiemetal
Posted 7/13/2011 11:44 AM (#506963 - in reply to #506655)
Subject: Re: Johnson buys Lakemaster





Posts: 676


Location: Wisconsin
I think it is bad business decisions to lock out a large section of people who are either going to want to upgrade chips or buy new ones and now only have one company really to go to. I like Lakemaster for some of the lakes they have great detail, I liked Navionics because they generally had more lakes than Lakemaster and covered more states on one chip.
CiscoKid
Posted 7/13/2011 1:08 PM (#506982 - in reply to #506655)
Subject: RE: Johnson buys Lakemaster





Posts: 1906


Location: Oconto Falls, WI
I am not so sure it is a bad idea by Johnson. Typically having too small of a portfolio will hurt a company, but what Johnson will lose in terms of chip sales to owners of other GPS makes, they will gain in sales of their other product offerings that could be tied in-line with the newly purchased company. So in the whole picture Johnson has made their product offerings as a whole more broad to include chips. I am willing to bet they will make more money selling products that will be tied into the chips than they will lose by not selling Garmin or Lowrance chips. Side from that Lakemaster has some pretty cool things that are outside of the chips.

Think about it. How nice would it be to go to one make for everything in your boat. One stop shopping…That is what a lot of people look for now days. As long as all their products are good they have nothing to worry about. If they start incorporating all their products into a network…tell me who else can offer that?

It wasn’t too long ago that in my opinion Bird locators were crap. That all changed about the time they bought out Bottomline. Now they have a very good product. So the comment about how many Lowrance units sold to Bird units wasn’t a very good comparison if what is being talked about is several years ago. I am willing to bet Bird sales the last few years have grown quite a bit, and there probably isn’t as large of a differential between numbers of Lowrance units sold vs Birds units sold. I don’t think Bird will lose any customers because of this change. More than likely will gain customers. Lowrance and other mfg’rs have but nothing to lose. Lakemaster will lose customers as a whole, but as in the whole picture for Johnson the cooperation will gain. It’s not about how much money the individual unit op will make or lose, but how much the entire family of companies will make.
whynot
Posted 7/13/2011 1:22 PM (#506987 - in reply to #506655)
Subject: Re: Johnson buys Lakemaster




Posts: 897


I don't see what you guys are talking about in that release. They're only suspending online sales of Lowrance and Garmin chips...not all sales. Guessing they'll still make chips for Lowrances and Garmins, but with less features than are available on Birds.
Captain
Posted 7/13/2011 1:22 PM (#506988 - in reply to #506655)
Subject: Re: Johnson buys Lakemaster




Posts: 437


Good bye Lakemaster, hello Navionics. I have the Navionics HD app on my phone and love it. Lakemaster hasnt been able to get that figured out yet. I will keep my Lakemaster chip and buy them in the future as long as things stay the same.
Lambeau, I think the "people" you are referring to who switch from one brand of GPS to another because of A MAP CHIP are not paying for them in the first place. Are you serious? That makes absolutely zero sense. I could see if they were upgrading or bought a new boat, but I highly doubt that someone has an HDS unit and is switching to a bird because of a map chip. If they were already upgrading or whatever that is a different story.
lambeau
Posted 7/13/2011 6:23 PM (#507050 - in reply to #506988)
Subject: Re: Johnson buys Lakemaster


Lambeau, I think the "people" you are referring to who switch from one brand of GPS to another because of A MAP CHIP are not paying for them in the first place. Are you serious? That makes absolutely zero sense. I could see if they were upgrading or bought a new boat, but I highly doubt that someone has an HDS unit and is switching to a bird because of a map chip. If they were already upgrading or whatever that is a different story.

i agree, sort of...outside of pro-staff types who are flipping boats every year, not very many who currently own an HDS unit are going to go out and buy a different unit in the near future. they mostly have their mapchips in place too. so in the short-term, they're an irrelevant market segment.

smart companies plan long-term. so in a few years when those HDS owners are ready to upgrade it does become a factor in deciding between Lowrance and Humminbird. and of course folks who are looking right now to rig a new boat or upgrade older units will definitely be influenced by the range options available to their electronics, including map chips.

consider the advantage this gives Johnson when dealing with boat manufacturers, boat dealers, and even retailers...they can offer a full package of electronics: trolling motor, gps/sonar, and map chips as a bundle at a discount rate compared to buying competing brands individually. this will appeal to the manufacturers and dealers who are looking for competitive pricing advantages when talking to customers about bottom-line, fully-rigged prices on a boat.

and when the Humminbird/MinnKota bundle at Cabela's includes a free map chip?  or when Humminbird units just come pre-loaded with Lakemaster maps? hmmm.

and hey, the stock market seemed to like the move...

 

Guest
Posted 7/13/2011 6:25 PM (#507051 - in reply to #506655)
Subject: RE: Johnson buys Lakemaster


I would be very surprised to see any change in lakemaster chips at all. Like it's already been stated, they would be out of their minds to take the lakemaster away from lowrance. I'm confident in my assumption in saying that most of lm's sales go to lowrance guys. And to say that lowrance is chasing bird, talk about unedjucated lol, not trying to start an argument with any bird guy, don't worry
sorenson
Posted 7/13/2011 6:31 PM (#507052 - in reply to #507051)
Subject: RE: Johnson buys Lakemaster





Posts: 1764


Location: Ogden, Ut
Guest - 7/13/2011 5:25 PM

...talk about unedjucated lol, ...


How that is just plain funny.

S.
tkopke unplugged
Posted 7/13/2011 8:49 PM (#507090 - in reply to #507052)
Subject: RE: Johnson buys Lakemaster


sorenson - 7/13/2011 6:31 PM

Guest - 7/13/2011 5:25 PM

...talk about unedjucated lol, ...


How that is just plain funny.

S.


LOL!!!
Reef Hawg
Posted 7/14/2011 1:52 AM (#507125 - in reply to #506924)
Subject: RE: Johnson buys Lakemaster




Posts: 3518


Location: north central wisconsin
lambeau - 7/13/2011 7:44 AM

At any rate, in 2-5 years, we'll look back at this thread and laugh at ourselves for even talking about this.

maybe...maybe not...there was a time when the only decent freshwater option was something from Lowrance. things change and now they're the one chasing Humminbird. hopefully the process continues because in the end, competition is almost always good for consumers.

think about it...if Lakemaster has the best chips for the upper midwest, why wouldn't Johnson use that to leverage people into buying Humminbirds?

 



What I meant was, in 2-5 years we will be using equipment with so many advancements, we'll laugh at what we debated years back. Look back at what we talked about in the realm of electronics 5 years ago.

That said, I have an HDS unit up front that I am now quite happy with after updating to the 4.0. I have a 111 in back that is showing signs of nearing the end. I may need to make a decision this year or next as to which way to go. I like the charting on the birds and my sonar on my HDS. Knowing the HDs units have been out a couple years already, I really don't want to lay down for a whole system that will likely be replaced with something new in 2 to 3 more years. Keeping fingers crossed that the 111 hangs in there. I think we are on the verge of greatness from one or the other in regards to linking charts and trolling motors etc.

Edited by Reef Hawg 7/14/2011 1:55 AM
lambeau
Posted 11/21/2011 8:37 PM (#525572 - in reply to #506936)
Subject: Re: Johnson buys Lakemaster


sworrall - 7/13/2011 8:41 AM
We'll also take a look at Bird's booth.


could we get an update/results on this?



Edited by lambeau 11/21/2011 8:39 PM
sworrall
Posted 11/21/2011 10:01 PM (#525577 - in reply to #506655)
Subject: Re: Johnson buys Lakemaster





Posts: 32886


Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin
We stopped by a couple times and their marketing folks were too busy to speak with us, as were several other folks including Shimano when we stopped in ( three times) to see about the new reel. it's a buying show and the folks there are extremely busy meeting with...buyers. We didn't have an appointment, and there it is.

We also stopped at Lowrance and Navionics, and were unable to get interviews with either about their new products during the show. We did have a very busy schedule and did not have very much time to roam. you will note we did get interviews with Quantum, Abu, Bucher Outdoors, Frabill, and a few other folks. We need to have two crews there next year.

Immediately after this thread appeared, the acquisition became common knowledge and the results were as well.



KSauers
Posted 11/22/2011 5:44 AM (#525583 - in reply to #506655)
Subject: Re: Johnson buys Lakemaster




Posts: 743


The chips aren't interchangable are they? You spend 1000's on units and 100's on chips . I know I can't afford to spend 1000's again to change manufactures and then have to buy all new chips while my old chips just sit there.
shaley
Posted 11/22/2011 5:37 PM (#525657 - in reply to #525583)
Subject: Re: Johnson buys Lakemaster





Posts: 1184


Location: Iowa Great Lakes
Lakemaster are brand specific, HB and Lowrance take different chips...This buy out won't affect me, I don't like the LM chips...
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