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Posts: 1247
Location: On the Niagara River in Buffalo, NY | Lambeau, The old trolling vs. casting issue from Midwest Members in the early days of Muskies Inc. is why there is no Muskies Inc. Chapter in NY State.So why does Trolling always come up when discussing another Issue?
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Posts: 393
Location: Hopefully on the water | I don't believe that lambeau is saying that. But here is a example of what I think he MAY be saying. The Hayward Chapters fall tourney in October. Motor trolling is allowed for the tourney only on the hand full of lakes that are legal to do so. The remainder of the lakes that are allowed to be fished it is artificial bait only. So now you have a tourney that allows 2 different practices but not for the whole field or lake choices. Personally I love this tourney and the Hayward chapter does a outstanding job keeping it organized and ran very well. I maybe wrong with what Lambeau was thinking but that is how I may have perceived it.. |
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Location: Green Bay, WI | I cannot speak for the whole of MI, but my opinion is that the organization should allow whatever means is legal in the area, for anglers in a tournament environment. In other words, defer to the local regulations in regards to what is or is not allowed for angling for musky in that water body. The only exceptions to this would be to disallow such techniques that have been shown to be obviously detrimental to the fish. For example, to prohibit the use of J-hooks ("swallow rigs") with live bait as these have been shown to increase mortality. So if this means trolling where trolling is legal (or quick-strike rigs where live bait is legal), then so be it. But if the fundamental position of an organization is to value conservation/preservation of the fish above all else, then it seems reasonable that its position should also be one that is potentially more restrictive than local regulation(s), where appropriate.
Just because a non-quick-strike rig may be legal in a given fishery, doesn't mean it should be an accepted means of catching muskies in tournaments or outings sponsored by said organization. If, as in the use of certain live bait rigs, it can be shown by scientific research/data that a particular angling method is likely harmful to the fish, then such an organization should not support that method of angling...no matter how the local regulations are written. As we've found out in Wisconsin, changes to such regulations are offered mired in politics--hence they often lag scientific literature, and (unfortunately) common sense.
TB
Edited by tcbetka 5/12/2011 3:49 PM
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Posts: 1247
Location: On the Niagara River in Buffalo, NY | twells,I hear you and I'm sure that is what he ment.But everytime trolling is used in text to be precieved as unwanted,even out of text, is why some out east do not join M.I.. |
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| i was simply offering my opinion that "proper" technique (casting, trolling, livebait) is not something that should be determined by the organization, as long the technique allows fish to be released successfully. i was also pointing out that certain techniques (such as trolling) are frowned upon or even illegal in certain areas (such as northeast Wisconsin), yet allowed by Muskies Inc tournament guidelines in other areas where it is legal. i was trying to make the point that what MI "allows" isn't always viewed as "OK" by other groups - including state law.
likewise, while live bait may be frowned upon or not legal in certain areas, it's use shouldn't be prohibited by the organization in areas where it is allowed by law...because it is possible to fish live bait in an ethical, fish-friendly manner. notably, live bait is extremely popular within Muskies Inc - look at the latest issue of Muskie magazine and read the Llunge Log article!!!
please keep in mind: although i obviously favor the use of live bait as a legitimate technique, i'm NOT suggesting that Muskies Inc promote the use of livebait or say it must be allowed. i'm just saying that these decisions should be left in the hands of the local chapters and their event organizers. if they chose to allow it, fine. if they chose not to allow it, that's fine too. why would the organization not want their clubs making these decisions themselves? |
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I'm pretty sure that the clubs voted on this issue in the past, as it would have been brought up at either the fall or spring board meeting.
So apparently the clubs supported this rule.
So what is the big deal? If a chapter wants to challenge it, than so be it.
Put it up to a vote and quit acting like big bad MI is forcing clubs to adhere to crazy rules.
JS |
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Posts: 829
Location: Maple Grove, MN | Seems to me that as long as everyone has to fish by the same rules, then it is a fair tournament. After that it comes down to how to best preserve the fishery and the tournaments. The worst thing that could happen is to have a tournament and leave a bunch of Muskies floating after being hooked to deeply. That would turn people off in a hurry and could spell the end of tournaments on that lake.
Just something to think about. |
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Posts: 2384
Location: On the X that marks the mucky spot | Hey Mike,
I was using kill tournaments as an extreme, but in reality the end of the kill division in the Frank tournament was less then 10 years ago. By using it as an example of recent change that flew in the face of what MI stands for (protecting the muskie fishery).
Larry, I have no idea what you're talking about when it comes to anti-trolling in the Midwest. Trolling is done by most anglers to one degree or another in MN and every other state where it's legal to do so. I know that it isn't allowed in some places in WI, but that's about the extent of it as far as I know. |
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| fishing the Ironman on Waubesa today we watched as a nearby boat had a pick-up on a sucker. they were using a circle hook and said the hook fell out on it's own in the net. good safe release of a 38"er that put them in the money. |
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| Chapter 54 had their meeting out at the Waterville fish hatchery, one of the main producers of muskies in MN. I got to see first hand what GOOD MI does at the state level. I saw the dry diet feeders for the muskies that cost $11,000 that was raised by all the MI chapters in this state. I was told that the production has went up and this method makes raiseing them much cheaper and easyer. Also the number of positive rule changes made in the state of Minnesota wouldn't of been possible if it wasn't for the contribution made by the MMPA. The MMPA is also made up of all the MI chapters of this state and the Vermilion guides league.
Dan Crooms 54 |
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Posts: 1220
| I view MI in much the same way I view the trade association I belong to for my work. It's a bigger forum than my own close personal "amen corner." All the folks there have a shared interest in musky, but clearly not in the same exact fashion. My view of any coalition is that you take full advantage of the size of your stakeholder group on matters where you agree and where group action can achieve shared goals. Where you don't agree....you try to keep civil with those you don't agree with until the next time you need the group as a whole. For me, I totally don't like the lunge log, so I don't read it or add my shamefully small fish to it. I also have no need to argue about it or lose affiliation with those who do like it. I like tournaments but can totally understand a guy who is a skeptic. So, I try to act on the water in a way that can garner respect from those who are doubters. If we are smart, we will try to identify the areas where we have shared mission and recognize that some (like me) prefer mint-chocolate chip ice cream better than the flavor you like! Marty Forman |
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| Herb B great post,,,Quick Strike rigs are illegal in MN at this time; I dont think BASS tourneys use live bait either. Looking at hooking mortality for single hooks (aside from large circle hooks) I dont see a benefit for the MN fishery at this time.
Overall live bait isn't really that popular here, I suspect it would be more attractive if quick strike rigs were legal. |
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| muskiefool iam not sure where you get your info but quick strike rigs are legal in mn as long as you have a spinner on it they are then classify it as a lure and your good to go. |
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| Mr. Weirick, if you have a problem with a specific MI chapter why not just go straight to them, bringing a subject such as this one on this forums just seems as if your just trying to cause problems not solve them |
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Posts: 32886
Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | Seriously? He just asked a simple question. |
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Posts: 1060
Location: Palm Coast, FL | Mr. Guest...since being banned from that specific forum of that specific group's website I cannot post on their site. I did however reply to a thread on another forum that never got answered.
Regardless...I didn't know if the by laws had been changed or not regarding tournaments/live bait. |
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Posts: 1060
Location: Palm Coast, FL | Dear club member/guest/chicken behind anonymous,
I am actually for the use of live bait in tournaments. The club tried to do this in the past when I was on the board as RVP. Per the by laws if you charge an entry fee it is a tournament and not an outing. Therefore we could not use live bait unless it was an outing where no entry fee was charged. That is why I am bringing it up. You want to play by the rules don't you? |
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Posts: 1060
Location: Palm Coast, FL | If I am seeing something wrong, I will speak up. Last year the WLMC was giong to be hosting outings in water temps over 80 degrees (and no I was not fishing). That i s detrimental to the fishery and I WILL say something about it no matter what to whatever club is doing something like that. Now the WLMC is hosting an "outing" that they are charging an entry fee for...this is a tournament and not an outing when you charge an entry fee. Why do I bring this up? Because we looked into it before when I was RVP and were not able to use live bait if an entry fee was charged. People are taking it personal when I bring stuff up that are not right...one main reason why I switched clubs. When I bring issues up to the Hoosier Muskie Hunters, they look into it rather than make waves and fire back or just plain ignore my concerns.
If you are suggesting that I am not helping the fishery out then I suggest you step into my shoes sometime and see what all I do. I would welcome you into my boat or on the phone (574-551-0214) to talk about it anytime as a friend. We are in this for the common good of the fishery...why would I try and hurt that fishery as a guide?
As far as not taking part in outings. Many of them are when I am guiding or during some of my shows and I cannot make them. I really liked fishing the league night until I was being charged for it as a non-member. |
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Posts: 2
| Let me make sure I got this right, the Webster Club stocks Long lake with muskies thay payed for. No Webster Club, No muskies in Long lake. Vince Weirick guides on Long Lake for Money. Muskie guides, correct? Now the club wants to charge for an outing to make money to buy more muskies to stock Upper Long and Vince is...Happy... Not Happy? I dont get it, who cares what the club does as long as its good for the fishery? You shouldnt bite the hand that feeds you. I know a 51.5 was caught at Upper Long, what a great testament to the Webster Club, hats off to Chae and Co.
Edited by Curt Ratliff 5/19/2011 6:33 PM
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Posts: 1060
Location: Palm Coast, FL | Curt...great 2nd post! Understand that I am still a Muskies Inc. active member that helps the DNR with stocking. Also understand that I was involved with stocking upper long while on the BOD for WLMC. Follow the rules is all I am asking or is it just ok not to inhale? |
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Posts: 2
| Sorry to disapoint Vince, this is my first post ever, I just heard about this last night. Someone else was hating on you and hiding behind "Guest" or " Club Member" Not my style. |
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Posts: 32886
Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | Gents,
If you have an interpersonal argument you need to continue, take it to email, please. |
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