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Posts: 1286
Location: WI | So if you don't personally like something it should be illegal for others to do/use? I see no problem with using live bait, to each his own. It's not like they're proposing the use of rotenone. |
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Posts: 366
| JKahler - 8/2/2010 12:41 AM
So if you don't personally like something it should be illegal for others to do/use?
No offense, but yes. That is how society works. If enough people have a similar feeling about something, then it becomes a law and makes a situation or action illegal. While many experienced or well trained individuals can practice something such as single hook live baiting with shad successfully with little to no negative impact to the muskie population, do you believe that the average citizen who buys a fishing license, could and would, also replicate this experience as well as its affects? If the answer is yes, then try and get it passed, if the answer is no or even maybe, then think about it a little more, cause having a regulation undone isn’t a quick and easy process when floaters start showing up everywhere.
Granted, fishing with a bluegill versus a shad really isn’t that different. But, if it is the same then why wouldn’t the DNR have made the regulation the same in the first place?
Ryan
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Posts: 1060
Location: Palm Coast, FL | Fishwizard - 8/2/2010 2:58 AM
But, if it is the same then why wouldn’t the DNR have made the regulation the same in the first place?
Because bluegill have always been here and shad are an invasive species?
Edited by Vince Weirick 8/2/2010 2:17 AM
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Posts: 1060
Location: Palm Coast, FL | 0723 - 8/1/2010 12:41 PM
JoBu next time I see it i will take a picture for you.Heres the problem you got 3 or 4 people in the boat what is your line limit?I do not think they are doing anything illegal.b ram
I have seen 1 boat do this every year in the fall...and he is guiding and only guides in the fall for a short time. |
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Posts: 5161
| That was one the boats I have seen and there are a few others.What is the offical lines per person limit in Indiana? I do not really know because I only use one line. b ram
Edited by 0723 8/2/2010 7:22 AM
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Posts: 1060
Location: Palm Coast, FL | 3 per person |
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| I vote that those who don't live in Indiana get a say so. And no, we aren't going to use our tax dollars to stock muskies near the Chicago area either... |
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Posts: 2361
| Anybody can post on their DNR opinion board, and I did, not in favor of the shad thing on any musky lake. Good chance to be heard. Post that you do or don't like it as you see fit.
Very fair of Vince to put it up here for everyone's opinion. |
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| Guest - 8/2/2010 11:44 AM
I vote that those who don't live in Indiana get a say so. And no, we aren't going to use our tax dollars to stock muskies near the Chicago area either...
Oops, typo...I vote that those who don't live in Indiana DONT get a say so. Sorry, but if you don't live here, don't worry about it. |
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| Hey b ram---sounds like those guys are just bringin the muskies to the "school" instead of huntin' 'em down. If seen more than one article about camping on spots waiting for the skis to come to you. If 4 dudes wanna camp out and live bait instead of chuck and wind---they've got more patience than this musky hunter. I'd rather hunt 'em down but you can't argue that when the bite's tough---a lively minnow will turn fish quicker than any artificial-----Not my rules, God just made muskies that way----gotta love the food chain. Good luck---fish on---Jobu |
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| Why is it fair for you to vote??? For serious...these our our tax dollars and our lakes. They have no impact on you. Feel free to butt out. |
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Posts: 2361
| Guest - 8/2/2010 11:50 AM
Guest - 8/2/2010 11:44 AM
I vote that those who don't live in Indiana get a say so. And no, we aren't going to use our tax dollars to stock muskies near the Chicago area either...
Oops, typo...I vote that those who don't live in Indiana DONT get a say so. Sorry, but if you don't live here, don't worry about it.
You can vote on that if it ever comes up, but Vince posted so people could offer an opinion and there is no restriction in the comments section on the DNR site as to who gets to offer their opinion. Mine is that shad are best left unused as live bait for musky. I worry about it in the same vein as spawning site degradation in Leech(never fished there), invasive species, introduced diseases, various lake studies, expansion of the musky range and other broad topics concerning the resource.
"If you don't live here don't worry about it" could be the motto for a declining resource for all of us. |
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Posts: 32884
Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | "If you don't live here don't worry about it" could be the motto for a declining resource for all of us."
True, for sure.
Funny, when folks want out of staters to influence a new law or rule the want/don't want enacted, they push the heck out of us to email or make the call, almost making it sound like it's our civic duty. ( sometimes it is) Yet, when there's a thread like this one, suddenly it's none of our business. Can't win, and some goof anonymously hollers MuskieFIRST doesn't 'do enough' for somewhere out there.....can't have it both ways, yet it's asked of all of us.
Odd. |
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Posts: 5161
| All I can say is I bet the local businesses and guides enjoy all of us out of staters coming there to fish.When you need our support for higher limits you have no problem asking us to sign or show up to dnr meetings.Why now because we do not agree with your in state agenda this time on this issue?When someone in the near future needs signatures for one line per angler proposal in Indiana I will sign that along with many out of staters.I hope this is the minority speaking for the indiana fisheries but as the post drags out I am afraid it is not. b ram
"I would rather get skunked than catch one trolling."RAMBO TACKLE THEME |
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Posts: 1060
Location: Palm Coast, FL | Guest - 8/2/2010 12:52 PM
Why is it fair for you to vote??? For serious...these our our tax dollars and our lakes. They have no impact on you. Feel free to butt out.
THESE ARE OUR LAKES...IN STATE AND OUT OF STATE...PUBLIC WATERS! I welcome all input to this thread.
Just guessing but I would think the Indiana DNR would weigh the opinion of in state people compared to people from out of state but don't know for sure. |
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Posts: 32884
Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | By the way, I personally have no problem with the idea of using shad for bait, have fished stripers that way and it's fun. |
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Posts: 196
| well, a couple of guests posted on here....."are muskies that hard to catch that you need live bait"......YES...there aren't near the muskie population here in Indiana as opposed to other places, or at least not that I know of. I live in central Indiana and we have only boated two muskie this year...but there are only about 5 lakes that even have them within 2 hours and there are a very limited number in those lakes, not to mention that they do not reproduce in these waters..... so any small increase in advantage would definitely make fishing them here more productive and exciting.....however I do have to agree that in my personal experiences, I have seen alot more fatality in other species when fishing with live bait....therefore I choose not to use it other than for panfish that you are planning on harvesting anyway, but I'm not going to down someone else for wanting to catch more fish. |
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| Vince, or anyone else?
Have you ever tried to catch gizzard shad in any of the N Webster muskie lakes with a cast net?
Maybe I'm wrong, but I would think that given the typical water clarity in those lakes in the fall, you might find it very difficult to catch shad of the size you would like to use for musky fishing.
TAN
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Posts: 1060
Location: Palm Coast, FL | Your best time to catch them would be in the spring in the shallow water. I have never tried it with cast nets. In the fall...the most shad you will encounter will the threadfin shad which are too small to use (2"-3"). Gizzard shad are the ones you are looking for. I have not tried to catch them as you cannot use them as live bait in Indiana...this is the only fish you cannot use as live bait in Indiana. |
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Posts: 54
| Thats not true... You can not use any invasive species fish for bait. No shad, no gobies, no white perch. For good reason. We kill the smallmouths on Lake Michigan on goby look-alike baits. The last thing the DNR wants is a group of pinheads that think they know more about whats good for the lakes and rivers than the degreed biologists loading up to use gobies for bait in the Tippicanoe river, Wabash, ect..to fish smallies. That is what would happen with the shad I know it. Loon and the other shad free lakes would be soon loaded. Remember that is how the shad got where they are. DNR says illeagle stocking by bass fisherman. |
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Posts: 20211
Location: oswego, il | I don't have an issue with shad being used as live bait although the point made about moving shad between lakes is a good point. Another point probably made is that small shad would be used if large ones could not be found making them easier swallow meals. I have used bluegills out there too for bait but so far i am not sure they have been worth my effort. keeping the shad alive will be difficult and I am sure the rigging would be somehow different to keep them that way.
I always laugh at the people who say it's our waters not yours, yet there is a public launch and the lake isn't privately owned. Makes them totally wrong. |
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Posts: 1060
Location: Palm Coast, FL | Rock Bottom - 8/3/2010 2:52 PM
Thats not true... You can not use any invasive species fish for bait. No shad, no gobies, no white perch. For good reason. We kill the smallmouths on Lake Michigan on goby look-alike baits. The last thing the DNR wants is a group of pinheads that think they know more about whats good for the lakes and rivers than the degreed biologists loading up to use gobies for bait in the Tippicanoe river, Wabash, ect..to fish smallies. That is what would happen with the shad I know it. Loon and the other shad free lakes would be soon loaded. Remember that is how the shad got where they are. DNR says illeagle stocking by bass fisherman.
I stand corrected...but not by your post. From the Indiana DNR regulations:
"You may use wild fish as live bait as long
as the fish was caught legally and meets any
size, catch, or possession limits established
for that species. Goldfish may be used as live
bait. Carp and gizzard shad cannot be used
as live bait, except at Brookville Lake, where
live shad may be used.
It is illegal to possess the following
fish and mussels alive without holding a
species permit. If any of these are caught,
they must be killed immediately and not
returned to the water. Your cooperation
is essential.
••Asiatic clam
••Bighead carp
••Black carp
••Silver carp
••Snakehead (of the family Channidae)
••Quagga mussel
••Rudd
••Ruffe
••Round goby
••Tubenose goby
••Walking catfish (of the family
Clariidae)
••White perch (not freshwater drum)
••Zebra mussel"
I guess Carp are also not to be used as live bait. The other fish you mentioned are not to be in your possession let alone fish with them. |
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Posts: 1504
Location: Oregon | As a outsider (I live in Oregon) I find it hard to understand why anyone would use live bait for a fish that most anglers are interested in protecting. Musky are a sport fish and worth millions to local merchants and the states in which they may be found. Millions are spent on habitat improvements and hatcheries. It seems only logical that anglers and fish managers would want to protect these investments. One other thing, the use of live fish for bait has been outlawed in the west for longer than I can remember.........decades.
RM
Edited by RiverMan 8/4/2010 11:29 AM
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Posts: 13688
Location: minocqua, wi. | As another outsider (I live in Wisconsin) ... let me say that i'm so glad i don't live in Indiana that i just about can't stand it. |
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Posts: 2361
| jonnysled - 8/4/2010 11:48 AM
As another outsider (I live in Wisconsin) ... let me say that i'm so glad i don't live in Indiana that i just about can't stand it.
So.........in other words, you are not really sure WHO put the I in FIB???
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| I used to fish Wisconsin waters quite frequently but over time I discovered the fishing is IMMENSELY better in the "land of corn" than it is in the "land of cheese"----just one ol' time musky hunter's opinion. Why can't we all just get along?-----Jobu |
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| Just got back home after a long summer in Minnesota and had a buddy of mine tell me about this discussion.
I would be 100% against the use of shad as bait here in Indiana. I don't think that it would be a good idea at all..but again that is just my opinion.
MIKE HULBERT
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Posts: 61
Location: Avilla, IN | I live in Indiana and fish for muskies here regularly. I have not heard any legitimate arguments here against the use of shad as live bait. I would certainly think most guys would be using respectable size shad just for the fact of trying to keep them alive. As a comparison.....plenty of guys like using 'smaller suckers' in the 6-8" range. I would think smaller suckers could be swallowed just as easily as a medium sized shad. Seems like every year there are days, or even weeks that if you are not fishing live bait you are going to find it tough to boat a fish. At the end of the day, most musky guys I know are still excited to tell the story about the fish they caught.................. even if it was on live bait!!!! |
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