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Posts: 829
Location: Maple Grove, MN | So, what defines a "guide"? Does being a "guide" require charging money? What if your fishing partner brings lunch or gives you a lure or two? What about gas money?
Some people I fish with say I am like a guide except I don't charge money. I have no problem sharing my boat and equipment with fiends, co-workers, family, etc. My reward is not money - it is simply spending time with people doing something we all enjoy. Sometimes people give me a lure, bring lunch, or offer gas money, but none of that is required.
So, am I a guide or not? I have never thought so, but now I'm not so sure. It all depends on the definition of a "guide".
The last thing I want is to be called "Captain Herb".  |
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Posts: 133
Location: Duluth, MN | Herb(capt Herb)
I took the class last year and the same question was brought up. According to the coast guard if you except anything it's payment for services. This does include a candy bar, can of pop, lunch, lures..........
I had someone tell me they were investigated over something like a can of coke.
Edited by yooper 2/4/2010 2:40 PM
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Posts: 829
Location: Maple Grove, MN | That is what I was afraid of. So, you get off the water and your fishing partner offers you a few dollars for gas money. And then a warden or police officer sees that and you get ticketed for guiding without a license.
But what if you provide lunch for the people fishing with you? Are they then the guide or does the "guide" have to be the boat owner?
So, what if you borrow someone else's boat? Who is the guide then?
So, what if you swap candy bars? Does the person with the largest candy bar become the "guide"?
This whole thing sounds silly to me.  |
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Posts: 4343
Location: Smith Creek | I think its more like if you accept anything and claim it on your taxes. The burden of proof would be on the feds to prove you received a can of coke for your services and not just cause you were thirsty.
Gas money doesn't qualify as a guide's wage, unless you try to claim a deduction for your boat and gas expenses. |
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Posts: 19
| I think if people were smart, they would be contacting your representatives and raising hell about these issues. Let them then try and get this nonsense stopped. As far as I am concerned everyone should just tell there clients that if anyone asks they are great friends out for the day. I really think that with a little pressure on your local state reps that this issue would get cleaned up real fast. Mike |
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Posts: 272
| The thing about this that is the most interesting to me is that the Coasties are involved. Or at least that's the way I'm reading this.
So, since they're involved, and since the Coasties are federal, are they not....???.....why are we just talking about Minnesota with this? Especially since the Missi and St. Croix Rivers are supposedly involved here.
I guess if i were a WI guide, I'd be minding my P's and Q's on this one. |
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Posts: 4080
Location: Elko - Lake Vermilion | This sounds like a Goverment Cluster at it's best...... When will our fed.gvt. leave the working man/woman alone ??? I think this is just the begining of more govt. control over our lives.
Jerome |
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Posts: 3240
Location: Racine, Wi | Addict,
There are quite a few waters in WI that require a captain's license. They are all as mentioned above "Federal Waterways". The Winnebago lakes, Fox River, etc are consider Federal Waterways as they connect to Lake Michigan. Even the Fox Chain is considered a federal waterway and you are required to have a captains license out there to guide now as well. The Fox Chain isn't nearly as big as some of the MN lakes under the scope here, but since it's considered a federal waterway, guides out there need to have their captain's licenses.
Not saying if I agree or disagree with this requirement, just what I understand on the WI and Northern IL side of the spectrum. I personally think that it can't hurt to have a captains license and if it's been on the books this long, it was bound to be exposed. |
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Posts: 133
Location: Duluth, MN | The miss is federal water and if you guide on any federal water you need a capt license not just in minn.
Before 9-11 the coast guard controlled only the federal water ways. After 9-11 the coast guard came in control of all inland waters along with the federal water ways and they are pushing the capt license because of safety and they want to know who is on the water running people around on these waters.
As far as Wis guide minding p's and q's. I'm sure license requirements will expand to more waters in wis and other states as well and the list on lakes in minn may expand also.
If your guiding on waters that don't require a capt license don't be shocked within the next couple of years it may be required.
Nothing to mess around with. Two years ago someone in minn or wis was warned several times not to guide without a capt lic . He was caught again by the coast gaurd and a warden. They had him drive his boat to where he lauched it and put the boat on the trailer. When he pulled it out of the water there two sheriff deputies waiting. One deputy drove the truck and trailer and the other the squad car. The boat was a newer ranger and is now driven by a game warden and I think the truck was auctioned off. Over $50,000 was still owed between the truck and the boat. ouch
Edited by yooper 2/4/2010 10:46 PM
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| Each U.S. Coast Guard Licensed Captian & Crew will need to belong to a random drug testing consortium.The Charter Captian's in MN can start an Assoc. and have random drug teating through a place like Quest or each individual Captian can join The Maritime Consortium at http://www.drugfreevessel.com/.To be in complinance with U.S. Coast Guard Regs every Licensed Captian must have in possesion if checked on the water an up to date drug test slip or show a membership card to a random drug testing consortium.Testing on your own will cost you about $80,if your in a local random drug testing consortium(local charter boat assoc.) a negociated price might be as low as $35 per test and only 25% of the membership will be randomly picked to test through out the season year.
Capt. Larry D. Jones
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| You also need a a twic card and type I floatation for each persons.
TSA: Transportation Worker Identification Credential (TWIC™) |
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Posts: 229
| What happens if a captain fails a drug test? |
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| I think if people were smart, they would be contacting your representatives and raising hell about these issues. Let them then try and get this nonsense stopped. As far as I am concerned everyone should just tell there clients that if anyone asks they are great friends out for the day. I really think that with a little pressure on your local state reps that this issue would get cleaned up real fast. Mike
GO AHEAD AND LIE TO A COAST GUARD. IF YOU GET CAUGHT, SAY GOOD BYE TO YOUR GUIDE LICENSE AND A HEALTHY FINE. |
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Posts: 829
Location: Maple Grove, MN | OK, so the Feds are now afraid terrorists are going to go fishing????? Next thing the terrorists might do is going bowling. My gosh. What is this world coming to!
Seems like an excuse to try restrict fishing rights. First, go after the "evil" fishing guides who are trying to "profit" from the natural resources, (some would say make a living), and then go after the regular sports fisherpeople.
I hope all who voted for the current president are happy now. And I always heard that Democrats were out to defend the "little" guy. So, who is "littler" than somone trying to make a living by guiding? Even the best fishing guides cannot be considered "rich" by any means. |
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Posts: 4343
Location: Smith Creek | That's one way to look at it. The way I see it is the guys on the great lakes have always needed the capt. licence, why shouldn't the other guys on fed waters. Also, it reduces the number of fly-by night guys who take business from the "regulars" and when you have guys who know the border waters well its nice to know they're on the up and up. |
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Posts: 3147
| Herb
terrorists DO go to Bowling alleys,,,,see the "Big Lebowski" |
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Posts: 221
Location: Detroint Lakes, MN |
Herb where do you come up with those ideas??
How in the world does the current President have anything to do with the Coast Guard now enforcing a law that they were overlooking for decades??
Guides in other states have had to do what the MN Coast Guard was overlooking for a long time. That's actually how this whole thing got started. Some guides that work in Alaska came to MN. They contacted the Coast Guard office in Duluth to renew the liscence they had to have in Alaska. The MN guys didn't know what they were talking about until they looked into it and realized that they should have been requiring it. In Alaska all they did were run jon-boats on trout and salmon rivers with a couple of clients, just like MN guiding so they assumed the same requirments would apply.
Not a real big conspiracy there.
JS |
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Posts: 313
Location: Bemidji, Lake Vermilion | I still think the level of the requirements is a bit much, I'm all for safety and can say I've met or seen a few guys who should probably not be guiding. That said, I think most guides are already amongst the most safety aware on the water. It would be far better to regulate the kids on their jet ski's and PWC's, the couple time a year "recreational boaters" who have no clue about safety and are usually the ones to create hazardous or deadly situations on the water. Regulate - fine, over-regulate and control to insane levels - not fine. A different set of requirements could certainly and reasonably be agreed upon by both the government and people wishing to be in this type of business to ensure safety and some accountability (given not everyone will be happy, but there has to be a medium somewhere). I am/was in the process of getting a part time service available mostly catering to people I already know on a limited basis and personally feel this is excessive. I consider myself very safe, have been averaging over 100 days on the water per year and don't think people like me are really the "problem." |
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| If you have an accident on the water you have Two Hours to take an Alcohol Test,so if you can not get to a testing facility with in that two hour period you will need a Field Alcohol Testing Kit approved by the U.S. Coast Guard aborad your vessel.
http://app.testyourselfathome.com/cf.inventory.php?action=showinvde...
Capt. Larry D. Jones |
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| The muskie community loves regulations, why such an issue with this one...BR |
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| im tryin to guide wi mn waters this coming up season... i was wondering what type of lisc etc i need to get started |
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| I like the fact that guides are now going to be licensed. In the past it has seemed that anyone with a printer and a boat is a guide. I have observed some really rude guides that haven't a clue what they are doing in a boat. Getting some uniformity should be good for all. Now it will be easy for the average person to find out who the guides who are dedicated are and which ones are playing guide. |
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| If your one that has to take the U.S. Coast Guard Merchant Marine Officers Test to get licensed.The U.S. Coast Guard / Homeland Security will not issue a license until you have the TWIC card(Transportation Workers Identification Credential).Getting the TWIC card can take from 2 to 6 months so start on getting it first.When you get the TWIC card and have passed the Merchant Marine Officers Test the U.S. Coast Guard will still not issue the license without proof of Standard First Aid,CPR and Man Overboard Training.The American Red Cross offers these or take the PADI course at a local Dive Shop.
Capt. Larry D. Jones |
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| Once you get your Merchant Marine Officers License you will need to change your Boat Insurance to Charter Boat Policy.Your State may have limits set for Liability Insurance and Medical Coverage per Client taken on the water.Here in NY it is 1 Million Liability and $50 Thousand Medical per Client taken on the water.
If your boat is 10 years old or older you may be required to get a Marine Survey by the Insurance Co. before they will cover.
To keep from being boarded by the U.S. Coast Guard / Homeland Security for Safety Equipment check have a U.S. Coast Guard Charter Boat Inspection done each year,decal will be placed on your boat.
Capt. Larry D. Jones |
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Posts: 1243
Location: Musky Tackle Online, MN | From yesterday's Minneapolis paper.
http://www.startribune.com/sports/outdoors/83603337.html?elr=KArksi...
Aaron |
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Posts: 4080
Location: Elko - Lake Vermilion | well that sure cleared things up,,Is anyone else confused yet ?
Jerome |
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Posts: 734
Location: Watertown, MN | Heck I thought this law meant the each guide was required to have a six pack in their boat for clients. Bitt over the top, but this is not a guides license.
Troyz
What a great winter topics |
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Posts: 716
| It amazes me that people think this will improve anything re: guiding in any way.
Part Time, Full Time, Two years, Ten years, licenced , Non-licenced Coast Guard tested or not, "really" a guide or "playing" guide (whatever that means) Not one thing listed above will ensure you a quality guided experience on the water...only the quality and attitude of the individual providing the service can/will do that.
Bob T
Edited by bturg 2/6/2010 5:34 PM
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