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| Message Subject: Wisconsin Sucker Rig Proposal | |||
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| I finally got some time off from my busy guiding schedule, and wanted to take some of my valuable time to talk about something that I think is very important to Wisconsin Muskie anglers. At this past springs Conservation Congress Hearings, a couple of size limit proposals were introduced and passed. Our local DNR Biologist, Frank Pratt made a statement at the hearing that got me and others thinking. That statement was: "Size limit increases without gear restriction are meaningless." Fellow guide John Myhre and myself,with some input from others, got our heads together to see if we could come up with an idea to reduce as much as possible the continued loss of muskies of all sizes and particularily the large trophy size fish targeted in the fall with the use of suckers. We have come up with a proposal that we think would/could have a big impact on the loss of Wisconsin's potential trophies, such as the 42 pounder found dead this spring in the Chippewa Flowage that had a 10/0 sucker hook, leader and short piece of line attached. A sad waste of a great trophy fish that any of us would love to catch! When I started promoting release of muskies in the late 70's, I quit using single hook sucker rigs. Common sense told me that gut hooking muskies was killing them. I didn't use suckers again until Steve Herbeck developed the "Herbie Rig" in the early 90's. In Wisconsin, it is time to have everyone move to the "next level" and cease killing our beautiful trophy fish with live bait rigs that hook muskies in the gut or gullet! I don't like rules or restrictions any better than the other guy, but I truly believe that to return Wisconsin to its true potential as a producer of BIG muskies, something must be done! When I discussed our proposal with Frank Pratt yesterday, he stated that he would rather see a reduction in the number of rods that could be used after October 1st, from three to one. I said that even that would not prevent the continued use of "kill rigs" in the fall and that there is a segment of the fishing population that fishes muskies only in the fall, does not belong to clubs, does not read muskie magazines or the Internet, and have always used single hooks. This proposal would alter that and effect their's and others "education" and change. My purpose for bringing this forward now, is to get the input from you the serious (Wisconsin) muskie anglers. Consider it "open for FRIENDLY discussion", whether you are for it or not, as well as a kind of a poll. If you have any constructive critism or suggested changes/improvements, we want to know that too. The proposal as written (see below) is not "cast in concrete." WISCONSIN LIVE BAIT GEAR PROPOSAL: "The Problem; Research has shown that muskellunge that swallow live bait and get hooked in the throat, gullet or stomach, usually end up dead even if released. This includes undersized muskellunge as well as legal sized fish that are released. Single hooks, as well as supposed "quick-set" rigs (not including "rubber band rigs") that have a single or treble hook that is placed in the nose of live bait, usually suckers over 8 inches in length, are the problem. Single hook swallow rigs, usually, but not limited to, 8/0 to 10/0 and larger square shanked hooks, nearly always hook muskellunge in a vital area, and quick-set rigs that employ single or treble hooks to hook the rig to the live baits nose, have a propensity to do likewise, particularly when the hook is not immediately set by the angler, which is often the case when employed by inexperienced or unknowing anglers. Use of live bait is heavily in vogue in Wisconsin in the spring and more particularly in the fall months. Small legal or undersized muskellunge that are killed cannot contribute to the fishery and the larger and older specimens of this slow growing, long lived species, which are the primary target of fall trophy anglers, are in effect, removed from the fishery even if released and they die. Often multiple daily catches result in dead muskies in excess of the daily limit. At present, there are no angling rules that can prevent the angling mortality described above. WHEREAS, Wisconsin's muskellunge fisheries are suffering untold reproductive loss due to certain live bait angling methods. WHEREAS, Wisconsin's muskellunge fisheries are suffering untold losses of trophy sized fish even though supposedly released by anglers to grow to yet even larger sizes and afford additional trophy angling opportunities in Wisconsin, therefore BE IT RESOLVED, the Conservation Congress at is annual meeting held in ____________County on April____, 2003, recommends that the Department of Natural Resources take action to correct these situations by introducing to the state legislature rule changes eliminating the use of ANY hook that is placed forward of the lead edge of the live baits dorsal fin on any live bait used in excess of 8 inches in length. Attachment of the nose of the live bait to the live bait rig, if this type connection is desired by the angler, must be accomplished by use of rubber band, thread or similar material. Further, that only treble hooks may be used with the live bait and they must be placed between the lead edge of the dorsal fin tail and the on the live bait to facilitate the hooking of any muskellunge that grabs the live bait." OK, that's it. Let us know what you think. Muskie regards, Larry Ramsell | |||
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| Larry, With all do respect, it would seem this would not allow for circle hooks with suckers. Now, if this would be the only way to rid us of the "traditional" single hook, kill rigs, then I am for it. I like using the circle hooks, have not had a single problem gut-hooking, and will continue using them in certain situations. However, should they fall under this ban, then I will abide. Any way to add appropriate verbage to allow circle hook use in this proposal? Thanks for the initiative to bring this forward. Tight Lines, Shep[:sun:] | |||
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| larry and all- i know i'm opening myself up for all kids of trouble here, but let me say this: 1.) i agree that the square type single sneck hook rigs should be outlawed. it is proven that they are killers, case closed. 2.) i agree that quick strike rigs (PROPERLY USED!) are a great way to catch muskies with extremely low risk of harming the fish. 3.)i believe circle hook rigs should not be outlawed. too many good fishermen i know use them successfully with no incident of harm to the fish. in my own experience 'im 1-for-3; meaning i got a 41"er in the corner of the jaw, but lost 2 others that the hooks didn't "bite". lets face it folks- the jury is still out on this one, and if there are incidents of harm to the fish, were the circle rigs used properly (used the right hook WITHOUT offset point, proper hook size for the sucker used, rigged properly,etc...) there are many variables here, and circle hook rigging for muskies is in the infant stages yet compared to the kill hook rig. but that doesn't mean it's wrong... it means we need to be better educated. muskies 101 has a great article about true circle hook rigging, as well as an article written by our own jason smith who has plenty of experience using the circle rigs. if i killed a fish with the rig, i would have to seriously examine what i did and what i could have done wrong- and if i have the least amount of doubt about it causing mortality, i'll abandon it! 4.) some fish with die whether lures or suckers are used, that is just a sad part of the sport we participate in. just a fact. i feel that we need more input from other using the circle hook rig, whether it's PRO or CON for this subject. what are your experiences? please share... looking for as much feedback as possible, so come fall, we can feel more confident about our choices steve | |||
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| Shep & esox69: Thanks for your input. Circle hooks were considered when the proposal was written. I talked to Steve Heiting and Ty Sennett, both users of them. Both would be willing to give them up if necessary. Steve said that one problem that he saw with them is the huge learning curve and the potential for incorrect useage. As for myself, I have had bad experiences with them and don't like to "waste" valuable "fall (short) window of opportunity" waiting for a fish to swallow the sucker when I could be catching one or two more on Quick-set rigs! Muskie regards, Larry Ramsell | |||
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| I've had good success with the circle hook rig so far. The fish I've caught have been in the corner of the mouth. The others I've missed have just not been hooked at all. I think I'm with all others and would love to outlaw single hook "Kill Rigs". Personally, I think the jury is still out with the Circle Hooks. Generally speaking, I'm not a patient fisherman with the circle hooks as it is, but I use them. I like the aspect of the quick strikes with the immediate hookset much better; whether it's the Wolverine Big Bites, Lift Off, Herbie Rigs or other ones. I would like to see at least the single hook kill rigs banned and would support any bill on that, but would like to see more research on the circle hook rigs. Rob | |||
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| Larry, First let me state that I'm in total agreement with you on banning or out-lawing gut hooks or kill rigs as they are refered to today. I myself have probably killed dozens of muskies over the years while using them but as you stated it was a traditional method back in the day. Now we all know better through studies and experience. For the past five seasons I have been rigging my large fall suckers with circle hooks and have had EXCELLENT results with very little HARM at all to our resourse, the FEW that I had problems with where when I didn't use a TRUE CIRCLE, is it 100%, NO! but I'm sure you have had as I have a mortality or two using quick-strikes (which I do use with smaller suckers) as well as a few using small bucktails and jerk-baits, the chance of post hooking muskie mortality is a fact of life and it happens everytime you throw ANY type of bait with any type of hook in the water. I understand that you had some problems while using circle hooks. I did also in the begining (lost fish, gullet hooking etc) it's fairly new to the muskie world, just like I'm sure there where early problems with quick-strkes in the begining, education and proper use is the key with these don't you think, instead of a ALL OUT BAN? You also stated that you don't like to wait and you are entitled to your feelings on that, but I and I know many others that enjoy the wait and if used correctly causing no harm to the fish whats the harm (usually no more than 30mins with extremely large suckers and then I've seen some down it quicker than a hobo eating a ham sandwich). I look at it as Having my cake and eating it to, tradition with out the harmful results. Re-word the proposal adding circle hooks and you'll have my help and support 100%. Thanks Larry, and have a great season. | |||
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| I agree that something should be done, however I do not agree with how it is written up. It should just be stated that a quick set rig should be used. I make my own quick sets with 2 trebles and one of them dangles freely right below the sucker between the pectoral fins. I rig it just like a Herbie, but I've had better hookups with mine. I have great success with this rig, and do not kill any fish that are caught on it that I am aware of. The front hook is in front of the dorsal when looking at the rigged sucker, and I wouldn't appreciate being restricted from using such a rig. | |||
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| Can I give you an opinion from someone definitely on the outside looking in at this situation?? Doesn't matter, I am going to give it anyway. As someone who does not live in musky country and will never probably have the time to fish any live bait rigs or the such for musky, but as a fulltime fisherman, let me tell you what all this sounds like. As I have perused the boards and talked personally with many different musky fisherman from all over the east (yes, you guys are all easterners from Alaska...[;)] ) it appears Wisconsin has really lagged behind in protecting muskies in general. It seems many (not all) fisherman either head to Minnesota or Ontario when looking for large skis. As many have outlined, it just looks like tradition is against musky in Wisconsin....low size limit...big bait fishing state, etc, etc.. Larry and I have had our disagreements, to say the least, but I think his proposal has great merit. At some point, to improve the Wisconsin fishery, something has to be done. Higher size limits will help but, evidently, too many fish still die from the use of live sucker fishing. At some point a segment of the diehards has to give to improve the size of fish. There is no doubt in my mind a guide like Chuck or Ty can use circle hooks perfectly nearly all of the time. But for how many "educated" fisherman use them correctly, how many uneducated, or uncaring, will misuse them? And the point was brought up, what keeps this same group of people from misuing a quick-strike rig also? You guys really have a tough problem and somewhere, someone, is going to have to take a bite in the shorts to START in getting the problem solved, or at least on the right path. Larry's proposal seems pretty fair....maybe circle hooks could still be allowed but you still have so many variables with that....are you using them properly....are you using a "true" circle hook, etc.. Everyone here tries to be educated and I doubt we are the problem. BUT there is a huge contigent of people who catch musky that don't come here and aren't that interested in propagating the resource for the future. These are the ones who really need the extra regs to prevent damage to the fishery that everyone here works so hard to promote. Not an easy problem guys, but you need to start somewhere, From A Concerned Outsider, BrianW[:bigsmile:] PS: I would hope, and it would on be fair, that those who support this proposal wholeheartedly back the increase in minimum size limits also....BOTH ideas need to be instituted to get things done. | |||
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| The banning of a single "Kill" rig would be something that I am in total favor of. Larry, you stated that the circle hook rig would need a learning curve for the novice fishing angler. What about a learning curve for the rigging of a sucker on a "Herbie Rig"? I hope something can be done to minimize the dying of sucker hooked muskies. | |||
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| Though I don't use live bait for skis, I fully support the elimination of Kill Rigs....me boss uses them + at 1 time or another has gut hooked us + left us thrashing on the work room floor. Today I will sneak into his office + replace them w/ circle hooks; perhaps then we can recover more quickly + live to fight again! I'm also rigging up a livewell to keep him in for the 5:00 end of day release....[;)] | |||
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| Larry... First off let me say Thank You for bringing this idea forward for a formal proposal.. I agree with doing what we can that is within reason/common sense and in good faith of protecting our valuable resource. On the circle hook issue...I agree with the concept of these being an effective way to use live bait and still practice "effective" catch n release. Personally I don't use them, don't have a strong opinion against them either but like Steve Heiting I believe there is a "very important" learning curve to go through with them. I have enjoyed success with using a home made "quick strike" type rig and have had no reason to change. Keeping in mind the goal of "protection of the resource" I am in support of this legislation with or without including a provision for using circle hooks.. If you need any help with this please let me know. Mark M. Curly Hintz Musky Adventures Guide Service Eau Claire, WI www.muskyadventures.com | |||
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| I agree with Doc that there are a number, in the 'huge' catagory, of anglers who fish muskies some, but not as seriously as we do. I base this from experience, time on the water, and from my employment in the business. Some of these anglers still 'drag a sucker' on kill rigs while fishing other species, and while targeting Muskies. I agree that 'kill rigs' should be removed from the market. I support Larry in his effort to do so, but I am not too sure it will be easy to do as long as the limit remains one per day, and the legislation may represent a 'slippery slope' for the future. We are treading on uncertain ground by attempting to legislate out a method of catching fish that also is used widely for other species in a literal sense. Crappies, bluegills, bass, pike, walleye; all are targeted with live bait and a single hook. Would it not logically apply to those species as well,especially where the interest in trophy potential exists? If not, why not? I am not arguing that the need to remove the method for muskies exists if we want to protect the trophy fishery, I am simply pointing out the problems that might come up in creating law that applies only to muskie fishing. I am presenting a side of the issue perhaps needs be examined by everyone supporting the kill rig ban while looking into the hopeful demise of the 'kill rig' in Wisconsin. The previous post goes after the "pros" pretty hard. I think most of the guides, tournament anglers, and professional anglers out there have learned about the kill rig negatives in the last few seasons, and most have moved on to Quick Strike or Circle hook rigs. Those who still choose to use a kill type rig will eventually see the light, too. I NEVER use live bait for muskies, and never will, because I don't enjoy the method. That is my choice. Hopefully, it will be the choice of those who do enjoy and practice live bait fishing for muskies to use the Quick Strike or Circle hook methods. My point? It is currently a choice. If there is law passed to force the kill rig out of use, then it will not be choice, it will be the law. If then, enough people want live bait banned for muskie fishing, then perhaps that will be law, too. I know, I know, this is a real stretch. It still worries me though. | |||
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| TM....I will admit "huge" is kind of a generic statement. But do you think more than a few percent of those who fish musky (whether full or part time) frequent the boards?? My comments are generated not just from musky enthusiasts but my observations from all types of fishing. In Montana the fervor to use flies only for trout causes great peer pressure on those who don't. The underlying sentiment being that flyfishing causes less trauma to the trout. I have witnessed many of these same fly fisherman poorly handling trout....dragging them over the rocks after a lengthy battle in the heat of the summer and then proudly releasing them. The delayed mortality on those fragile fish is very high when handled in this manner. Granted the osprey are very thankful for the easy fish meals but the trout don't very often survive. I think a majority of people in any given fishery are not near as well educated about it as they ought to be....or simply do not feel there is any problem to be addressed ("they are only fish"), or simply do not care. This group is very adamant about musky fishing and are well educated...unfortunately most muskies killed are probably not from this group. Personally I have no stake in what Wisconsin does with their musky laws....I just offered an opinion, my opinion. When fishing musky in the future it will always be a long trip for me and I will go where the better fishing is... BrianW | |||
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| remember folks, if you're using a circle rig, the only TRUE circle hook on the market is the mustad demon circle hook, like the one on the wolverine big bite rigs. all other hook are "loaded guns", and the only one that can even be modified to a true circle hook is the daiichi (by bending the offset so the tip is back in line with the shank) fyi... steve | |||
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| Larry- You're a brave soul for starting this topic. I'm with Steve, I never will use live bait for Muskie. But I think Frank Pratt is on the money. But considering gear restrictions, we're also overlooking an obvious methodology that has to help reduce the use of live bait-> 1 fisherman = 1 pole. Minnesota and Canada are way ahead of us and it show's. Every time I think of the way that Wisconsin has trashed it's trophy Muskie fishery, it makes me sick. It's not the DNR biologist's fault, they know what needs to be done, but their hands are tied. What's wrong with lake specific size limit's and other lake specific restrictions? It's our fault for letting it happen. Myself, I'd like to see a 60" limit on some of our trophy waters + no livebait + 1 pole. A 34" statewide limit is ludicrous, it helped get us to where we are today. Are their lakes that should have 34" limit? You bet- so post it at 34". Don't engulf the entire Muskie fishery in a 34" statewide stranglehold, or for that matter a 60" stranglehold. Jeez- maybe the DNR biologist's would actually have fun doing their job's. The northern Wisconsin tourism boards and resort operators need to wake up!!! A hell of a lot of us guy's are spending big bucks to chase trophy Muskies. Most of us will only ever consider keeping a world record class fish @ +60" and even then some wouldn't do that. Guess where most are spending the big bucks? Yes, CANADA! Now Minnesota is moving up in the rankings as a true well managed Muskie fishery with real potential to be able to stick a real trophy. Yes Doc- the native American spearing of Muskies in Wisconsin needs to be stopped or greatly reduced period! Raising the "it's our heritage" flag is a bunch of hogwash. If they did it as their ancestors did, I would say have at it. They would be way less sucessful. But they don't, they use the white man's tools-> modern boats & motors, high intensity electric lights and steel spears. How about trying to cut a hole in +24 inches of ice without the white man's tools. If their ancestors could see what they were doing in the name of heritage, they'd roll over in their graves. I think they're already spinning like tops! We need to use our political clout to force the politican's in Madison to negotiate a stop to this practice. Running gambling casino's is not a right under the treaty. We don't have to let them continue to rape a limited resource (unlimited spearing of Muskies)while simaltaneously reaping hundreds of millions of dollars through their casino's. I say you can have one but not the other, it should be an easy choice. It doesn't even mean they have to stop totally, just set aside specific lakes with trophy/WR class Muskie potential in each County as no spearing lakes. Wisconsin has some beautiful Muskie lakes, our problem is management. If you want action lakes that's fine, the DNR biologist's certainly know how to manage lakes for that result. They also know how to manage for trophies. Maybe it's time to demand the WI DNR set up a Wisconsin Muskie management plan that makes sense to the majority of the WI Muskie anglers and then really let the local biologist's make the decision's on specific lakes and what to do to achieve the results, not the politicians. If your personal best Muskie is 36" & you want a 45" for the wall you better go fish a 40" limit lake. Your best bet would probably be a 45" lake. Al Warner www.youdontknowhowtowatchtv.com | |||
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| A severe weather related cancellation today has given me time to return to this topic and respond where necessary. In the interest of time and meaning no disrespect to the respondents on this board, I will respond to only those posts that I haven't covered on this same topic on the Musky Hunter message board at: http://www.muskyhunter.com/messageboards.htm Hopefully I trust, this will not create a problem for the moderators of this board, as that is not my intent, rather I am just hoping to save time and duplication of effort in handling this time consuming but very important effort. Thanks for your understanding. I will resume, where necessary, where I previously left off on posts related to this specific topic: There were several posts on circle hooks and the desire by most to retain them. That is under consideration. Anon user (Tom Filipowicz): Tom, research has and is (covered on other board) proven swallow rigs kill muskies. As for multiple daily catches and subsequent cutting of the leader and releasing muskies killing muskies, the "proof" is in the facts proven (studies) and the knowledge of talking to and hearing about many groups of anglers doing just that. Chuck Altamore: I believe and understand you have had "EXCELLENT results with very little HARM..." using circle hooks, but I think you will agree, as I seem to recall in a recent article by you in a Wisconsin magazine, that you are/were still learning. At any rate, I'm taking a second look at circle hooks as it pertains to the proposal. I too used to "enjoy the knee-knocking wait" while a muskie swallowed a sucker, but now prefer to "get it done" and have the opportunity to catch additional fish during often short "windows of opportunity", especially in the fall. Anon user: There is no guarentee that everyone will propery use a quick-strike rig. However, by limiting "where" the hooks can be attached to the sucker it can minimize "gut hooking" in most instances. Bill Schwartz: Bill, yes the "learning curve" on a "Herbie Rig" type set up too, is a small hurdle, but one that I feel must be tackled. Jury is still out on circle hooks. Mark H: Thanks for your support and offer of help! sworrall: Steve's knowledge of the industry and what "makes it tick" are beyond reproach. As he states, there are a LOT of semi-serious muskie anglers out there that far outnumber us "serious types!" While I tend to agree with Steve that "any" legislation can "represent a 'slippery slope' for the future.", we sometimes just have to "bite the bullet" and do what is best for the fishery! By limiting this proposal to bait size, I don't feel that it has any bearing on the other species Steve mentions. As for the banning of live bait as mentioned by Steve, see the thread on MH for a scary possibility if DNR biologists had their way! Again, thanks to ALL for your input. Muskie regards, Larry Ramsell | |||
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| Another "outsider's" viewpoint. Great move to further protection of the resource, everyone seems to agree that Wis. is lagging and something needs to be done. One issue that has not been raised so far is that those who promote additional protections through regulation will be dealing with a political process. Therefore, the previous posting about documenting the research data is very important. Politicos will want facts to move off status quo.You'll also want support from the resort industry, since it could be argued that either: 1) people will flock to muskie resorts and tourism dollars will increase as a result of the proposal, or 2) no one will come to Wisconsin to fish muskies because there are too many confusing rules. You will want support of #1, of course. As far as circle hooks, there seems to be some disagreement. Drop it. For now. Get your basic kill rig ban in place, since that is the area where you have the greatest level of agreement. Come back to the circle hooks later if needed, it is easier to add later than to confuse a bunch of non-fishing politicians by arguing fine poitnt technical details. Terms like gut hook and kill rig they can be taught. Go for that, for now, gather data about the success of the new ban, gather data on what still is causing fish kills and pursue that later. But, get the door open to the basic proposal, you will have enough opposition from the weekenders as it is. Good luck with this. Focus on what similar states have done, why they did it, and how similar proposals will benfit the Great State. Then, get sports groups to lobby, don't be afraid to send a check to your representative's election campaign along with your letters denouncing kill rigs. Money still talks. m[:bigsmile:] | |||
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| Larry, I commend your efforts in bringing this to light. This will be a tough road to hoe but I have confidence in your perserverance. I for one don't use single hook rigs nor do I use circle hooks. I, like you, would rather have the chance at multiple fish in that short window of opportunity so quick strike rigs are my preference when I sucker fish - which I do in October and November. My concern about what you are proposing is along the line with Steve W. in that how do you propose this only for muskies and not muddy the water for other species? I have caught some of my biggest Largemouth Bass, Smallmouth Bass, Walleye, Northern Pike, Carp and Catfish on muskie lures. I am quite certain that there are plenty of yahoos out there that will claim that they are fishing for something other than muskies. If a person chooses to fish for Northern Pike for some dinner with a 12" sucker on a kill rig, then we shouldn't take that right away from them because we are die hard muskie fishermen. Don't get me wrong here, I am in total support of the ban on single hook kill rigs but I think this will be right in line with "position fishing" and create the same kind of confusion. Is the ban on single hook rigs really the answer? I think it is a good question but is it really going to make a wide scale difference? Al brought up a couple of excellent points - spearing and WI DNR management. Has anyone examined the methods that are being used today? How about imposing restrictions on that? We already know that hundreds, if not thousands, of muskies are lost each and every year because of spearing. If spearing needs to continue, then the WI DNR should put restrictions on the specific lakes and methods in order to maintain the quality of the fishery. Everyone wants equal rights now a days. Well, where is my equal right when it comes to having a chance to catch that huge muskie that just got six pronged by Throwsaspearalot during a season that, by law, I can't fish for it? I agree, things need to change. I am on the bandwagon too where I would rather go to Minnesota and Canada in order to catch bigger fish. In fact, I have never been to Canada before but I am finally making the trek to Lake of the Woods this year. Here is my suggestion. There are so many educated, high profile musky fisherman in the world today. Why not have the musky community vote for a board of directors that would work with the WI DNR and politicians directly to try and make things better? Create a forum in which discussions like this can take place and a core group of individuals can work towards making WI a better muskie resource. Not sure what you would call it - Muskie Coalition maybe or Muskies-R-Us. Search for the root causes and go after them. That's the best way to make it better. The "band-aid" approach will be a long cumbersome road that will maybe save a couple of fish here and a couple of fish there and in the meantime, tourism will continue to suffer in a state that I take great pride in living in. Lastly, I disagree with your approach of not covering everything that is brought up on this board in order to save yourself some time. You brought the question to this board and asked for feedback. I think you owe it to the people who are responding to keep the thread going here. They shouldn't have to flip back and forth between boards in order to get all the information. Post it on one board and cut and paste it to another if you want to save time. Thanks again for your efforts Larry. Please let me know if I can be of any assistance. Respectfully yours, Scott Jenkins. | |||
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| Larry, It's hard to get in front of my computer these days with the fishing season and guiding in full swing. I'm glad I had time to catch this topic. I'm sure I would have heard of the "chatter" through the grapevine at any rate. As with many of the changes that folks are trying to involk through the spring hearings in this state, there is a need for caution, and "good" language in these proposals in paramount. Having said that, here is my 2 cents. Part of the problem that I see in your regulation is you are having to try to let the regulation say what is and is not a proper sucker rig to use, when what you want to do is outlaw the old style, square gut hook. Write a regulation that does that. Make it illegal in Wisconsin to sell or possess them. Then we are not into all the issues of, "should I be able to use a circle hook or where and how can I attach my rig to my sucker". If your intent is truely to ban the old gut hook, then do it with your language. If in reality you want your proposal to limit all livebait fishing for musky in Wisconsin to one and only one type of sucker rig (and I believe that is what your proposal is doing in its present format) then I can not support it and I would hope others would not as well. I could support some type of language that bans gut hook use in any way and still allows for the use of circle hooks or any other type of creative system that may come along in the future that is not detrimental to the fish. I commend you for your efforts, as I do anyone of prominence who sticks their neck out. I just think if your intent is to out law gut hooks that there is a better regulation out there that can be written. | |||
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| Larry, Please e-mail me your final draft of the proposal and I will submit it at the Outagamie County hearing next year. [email protected] I think your proposal won't make it, unless it is rewritten to allow for circle hook rigs. I don't use circle hooks, but I feel enough opposition will be encountered because of this, that it won't get passed. As proviously stated it should be written to not allow the use of the old single hooks. If everyone does a little to improve our fishery it will add up to a whole bunch. | |||
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| Thanks to those that have responded since my last post. One trend I am seeing is that of frustration. Got another break and am attempting to catch up. First, THANKS TO ALL for responding! Second, I am in the process of printing out all of the posts here and on two other boards where the same thread was started and my printer just ran out of ink. When that is complete, I will then analyze them all to see where exactly we are and then decide where to go with this proposal and its wording. When that process is complete (please don't be impatient, as the hearings aren't until next spring, and it IS musky fishing season) I will start a new thread. Since this thread has gotten very combersome to load, I ask that no further posts be made to it. Should anyone have any additional comments during this time, please start another thread entitled "Wisconsin Sucker Rig Proposal page two" or something similar. Perhaps Jason Smith can lock this one. Scott and Joel (or anyone for that matter) if you wish a more direct response to your post, feel free to email me. I will respond as time allows. I value your input! Again, Thanks to All for your input, and... Musky regards, Larry Ramsell | |||
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| "Should anyone have any additional comments during this time, please start another thread entitled "Wisconsin Sucker Rig Proposal page two" or something similar." No Problem Larry, if someone wishes to start Part II. Thats great. I will lock this one up for your conveince Larry. | |||
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