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Muskie Fishing -> Lures,Tackle, and Equipment -> The ultimate bait
 
Message Subject: The ultimate bait
sworrall
Posted 4/9/2009 9:47 PM (#371340 - in reply to #370371)
Subject: Re: The ultimate bait





Posts: 32885


Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin		That model is a Bass sized swim bait. The new Swimmin Cisco is Muskie intended.
50"skie
Posted 4/9/2009 9:57 PM (#371342 - in reply to #370371)
Subject: Re: The ultimate bait





Posts: 425


Which is that? What company?
sworrall
Posted 4/9/2009 10:19 PM (#371345 - in reply to #370371)
Subject: Re: The ultimate bait





Posts: 32885


Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin		Castaic.
RiverMan
Posted 4/9/2009 11:48 PM (#371359 - in reply to #370371)
Subject: Re: The ultimate bait




Posts: 1504


Location: Oregon		I think most of the bass hard plastic swimbaits on the market will fail to hold up to musky.........they may hold on for a few fish but after that something is going to give. Alot of the bass swimbaits have attachable fins that easily fall off or become damaged and joints that aren't made for a fish that is 50 inches long. The downside of swimbaits is they are expensive to build because of all the parts but geez do they ever look real and are incredibly versatile. There are a few good hard swimbaits being made that are musky tough and with time we will probably see alot more of them.

Jed

Edited by RiverMan 4/10/2009 1:03 AM
uptown
Posted 4/10/2009 9:33 AM (#371399 - in reply to #370371)
Subject: RE: The ultimate bait




Posts: 432


Location: mpls		I'll jump on this too

One of the reasons that the Dawg and DCG have been so successful is that they are two of the most quiet lures out there! Before you jump on me and say, DCGs are noisy!!", Hydrophones don't lie. The DCG is very quite, more than a single bladed bucktail about half the size. If Brad from Mayhem is on this site- he might chime in?

The fish are more and more pressured every year, subtle is the way to go! As for hard swimbaits- I have a friend in Japan that works as a lure developer for a high end tackle company. He sent me a couple of custom sized all hard swimbaits in 2003. Long before the craze. I fished the heck out of those lures for 2 seasons, and caught one fish!! They wanted to follow, but not eat. It made no sense as to why they would not eat them, until the hydrophone came out. They were the loudest, most non natural sounding lure you could imagine! The joints clacking together was crazy! The bass guys have been tuned to this for a while now. I have made a couple of custom swimbaits that have rubber "bumpers" at the joints to decrease the noise for a client in California. He does well on them .

It would seem counterproductive for me to bad talk a bait that I do make occassionally and sell for a premium. It is just my observations. Someone must be catching fish on them,because people still want them. I do think that twitching them may be the ticket. I have caught 4 Muskies on swimbaits since those first two lures . All came on twitching the bait and letting it hang.

As for Musky lure makers being behind the times making Muskie sized swimbaits- You have to open your eyes:

Nates baits- Nate has been making them for a longtime and probably has more experience fishing them for Muskies than most- his baits are awesome!

Jed Bikini Baits- Jed you can chime in here. Jed had a plastic sucker swimbait out a couple of years ago. Sounds like maybe something else on the horizion?

MuskieSnax- Makes all sorts of hard swimbaits.

Jeep(can't remember the name of the company-sorry)- Makes all resin swimbaits that look really cool!

Also now that Castiac is a Minnesota company- you can bet there will be more lures in the future appeal to muskie anglers.

I am sure that there are more.

Here is one that I have sold through my site a while back:


Joe
Trueglide.com



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esoxaddict
Posted 4/10/2009 10:59 AM (#371422 - in reply to #370371)
Subject: Re: The ultimate bait





Posts: 8778


If quiet is so important, what do Topraiders catch fish year after year after year? And if the fish get more pressured year after year, why are we seeing the same fish caught again and again?

As far as the ultimate bait? There are several components to this in my opinion:

1. Provides an appropriate visual stimulus to trigger a feeding response. This is made up of two parts:
A. Profile -- looks like a meal
B. Action -- behaves like a meal

2. Stimulates the lateral line in a way that triggers a feeding response.
3. Is designed to do both of these at a depth where muskies are at any given time.

There is no one perfect lure. All of the effective lures do one or more of these things effectively, but no one lure ever does them all at the same time in every situation. Even live bait doesn't ALWAYS work.

I think we also have to realize that in nature, sometimes prey escapes. Sometimes muskies miss, or the prey is successful at evading them. So even if we were to create THE ultimate bait? It wouldn't be 100% effective.

And if it did, wouldn't that take all the fun out of muskie fishing?
uptown
Posted 4/10/2009 5:27 PM (#371490 - in reply to #370371)
Subject: RE: The ultimate bait




Posts: 432


Location: mpls		There is a time and a place for everything. Just ,like everyone else on this board- I have my opinion.

I just don't share it as often as others

Joe
jay lip ripper
Posted 4/11/2009 2:54 AM (#371544 - in reply to #370371)
Subject: Re: The ultimate bait





Posts: 392


Location: lake x...where the hell is it?		i understand what you guys are saying about them holding up to a musky and the hooks also. i thought about that to, some of these baits are made to catch 20lb+ bass so i think most will hold up. i would like to see bigger hooks on them. but since i fish at a place where i have seen many small(6"-10") bass inhaled by 35" musky the hooks on the front are perfect. now that i think about it the ultimate bait would look like a bluegill and swin in circles real fast when bring it in, just like a real one when you catch it. on days when we cant even get a ski to look at anything we catch a gill and as soon as it starts to fight and swin in circles it gets inhaled, we get broken off that way and so do all the gill fishermen many times every year at wingra. i think a stright retreave my work sometime but i agree with what uptown said about twitching them, i think that will make them crazy for it.
RiverMan
Posted 4/12/2009 9:47 PM (#371774 - in reply to #370371)
Subject: Re: The ultimate bait




Posts: 1504


Location: Oregon		Your comments concerning noise I hadn't thought about before Joe and I think it makes alot of sense. I guess I could argue either for or against lure noise though............I understand that most natural prey items are for the most part silent but at the same time think how many lures out there make a ton of noise and still work great. Even something relatively subtle like a Weagle makes a whoosh, whoosh, whoosh sound that I have never heard a live baitfish make more than maybe once at the surface and we all know how successful this lure is. We use Kwikfish here alot for chinook and they rattle so lound that you can literally hear them 10' underwater on the retrieve and yet salmon love em! I have listened to hydrophones before and really never paid much attention to them because as you know fish don't really "hear" in the same sense that we do. I have read that fish will learn to "tune out" certain sounds like those of falling water, tumblings rocks, etc. Maybe some lures make a sound that is too far outside what they experience in their natural surroundings and thus get ignored as a prey item.

Jed V.



Edited by RiverMan 4/12/2009 9:50 PM
uptown
Posted 4/12/2009 10:39 PM (#371781 - in reply to #371774)
Subject: Re: The ultimate bait




Posts: 432


Location: mpls		Hi Jed!
I didn't mean to say that the fish won't eat anything that is not subtle. There are lots of times when you may want something that is "loud". My intention was just to point out that people have been "talking" about how subtle and natural swimbaits are, and that is not always the case. You can't argue with the success that other fisherman are having with those baits for other species. I was just pointing out my observations. I also happen to fish some of the most pressured water around with low density populations . So I am very aware that my findings may be different than others. I think that Larry Dahlberg had a great quote," Fishing is like looking through keyholes. " The more you look through, the more you learn". I am more than open to the possibility that I am totally wrong If that's the case, I'll happily be throwing swimbaits.

That said- I still think the Ultimate bait next year will be Nightcrawlers- they move naturally, smell like food(to fish and some 7th grade boys), and you don't need an winch to retrieve them

Joe
Trueglide.com
kalesluijk
Posted 4/13/2009 3:42 AM (#371792 - in reply to #370371)
Subject: RE: The ultimate bait




Posts: 2


widowmaker T bone!

Last summer more than 50 pikes..
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