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| i have a few questions for you guys does anybody now what the best length and size leader for lures like the giant jackpot and topraider,suicks,mantas,bulldawgs,cowgirls,dc8/10, and mepps mariabou.i would like certain answers for for certain lures. |
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Posts: 357
Location: Long Prairie, Minnesota | I would have to say that as far as length goes, the standard answer is make sure that your leader is longer than the bait that you are hooking it up to.
As for the lures...when I am throwing bucktails, I prefer to use a 7 strand leader and for topwater and jerkbaits, I like to use a single strand leader, especially for gliding type baits, both jerk and topwater. |
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Posts: 2024
| You're going to get a million different answers, so take it for what it is.
PERSONALLY, I use 130 pound fluoro (Stealth Leaders) for cranks, small glidebaits, spinnerbaits, and bucktails. Single strand 174 pound bronze colored wire for big gliders, pull baits, topwater (both prop baits and walk-the-dog), and Bulldawgs/Curly Sues.
Now, when I get to Canada I go straight to 174 pound single strand on EVERYTHING. |
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Posts: 2894
Location: Yahara River Chain | giant jackpot - Single strand (.029 174# test) with loops at both ends and attached to the nose with a split ring and no swivel about 9 - 10" in length.
topraider - Floro (130# test) or single strand (.029 174# test) with a bb swivel and a split ring on the nose 12" in length
suicks - Single strand (.029 174# test) with loops at both ends and attached to the nose with a split ring and no swivel about 9 - 10" in length.
mantas - Single strand (.029 174# test) with loops at both ends and attached to the nose with a split ring and no swivel about 9 - 10" in length
bulldawgs, cowgirls,dc8/10, and mepps maribou - Floro 130# test 12"
With Floro I like to have a bb swivel on one end and a solid ring on the other to attach to a split ring on the bait. What I am saying is that I don't use snaps at all. Its a weak link unless you can see well to make sure that you snap it proper AND that you change them often as they fatigue quickly.
Also I have found that baits work better if they don't roll (like most jerkbaits and some side-to-side topwaters) if you don't have a swivel on the leader. |
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| I use 180 lb Fluoro on all my rods,
for baits like side to side topwater and jerks I just use 180 lb with no bb swivel at the line end...you can easily use something like Stealth leaders on all your rods and all your baits and be set...no need for 5 kinds of leaders imo. |
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Posts: 3480
Location: Elk River, Minnesota | After doing a survey on here, with very minimal response (which surprised me...) I am going back to all single strand leaders for everything. I have been working with fluoro for 3 years now, and in my experiences with it, I have lost more fish on them. I have used both 90lb and 130lb and it didn't make any difference. Not exactly sure why, but I feel that there is a certain amount of stretch which may be limiting my ability to sink a hook into the jaw... Taking into account that the rod absorbs a bunch of shock as well, I just don't feel like I am getting solid hook-ups with it.
So...for me, I'm using #174 for most applications, except for smaller twitch baits...gotta explore what I am going to use there...probably no less than 90lb.
No snaps for me this year...all going on with a split ring..
Steve |
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| most of the guys catching 100's of fish per yr are all using fluoro VMS...do you think they have any trouble getting good hooks into fish... you really think 10" of fluoro is somehow going to stretch so you can't bury hooks..think about that for a second...so what it's going to stretch .0001 of an inch and this will cause you to not get a good hookset???
not exactly |
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| muskie! nut, are you talking about a solid ring attached to the leadred so you attach the split ring to?
Shawn K.
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| shawn, yes he is...I purchase mine at Thorne bros.
solid ring on the end of leader attached to bucher split ring |
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Posts: 2037
Location: lansing, il | stealth leaders are availible with a solid ring already attached to them. we use ones like this.....
Attachments
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 leaders 016.jpg (36KB - 122 downloads)
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Posts: 3480
Location: Elk River, Minnesota | Is that a uni knot?
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Posts: 108
Location: Toronto, ON | Even better solid rings which I use on my leaders...
http://www.cabelas.com/cabelas/en/templates/links/link.jsp?id=00182... |
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Posts: 2037
Location: lansing, il | it is a nail knot. i saw those rings at cabelas last week and picked up a few. i plan to put them to the test next year. havnt had a failure with the ones we have been using for the past couple seasons. the ones from thornes are good too!
Edited by muskihntr 1/4/2008 12:45 PM
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Posts: 2894
Location: Yahara River Chain | Shawn, like bn says, yes I am. Its like what pictured by muskihntr.
VMS, I'm with bn on this. I find it real hard to believe that a foot of floro will stretch enough to not allow you to get good hooks set. Say are you using your dominate hand to hold the rod????? That would help the most for ya. |
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Posts: 3480
Location: Elk River, Minnesota | bn...
before getting to "testy" about the whole thing...
first, I am basing my choice off of 3 years experience using both fluoro, straight-wire, and sevenstrand leaders. I am not knocking fluoro leaders in any way shape or form...they are just not working for me. It is not to say fluoro is not acceptable...very few would be using them if that were the case. Like I also said...I'm not sure why. My logs reflect fluoro not working as well for me...that's it.
Also...(applied math instructor side coming through here...or better yet stated, what I do each and every day for a living) warning...be very wary about throwing out numbers you cannot back up. Fluoro, by it's own design, will have a fair amount of stretch. Example...For 10 inches of spectra line, it has been tested to have around 4% stretch (cortland to be specific)..that means, with a 10 inch piece of spectra, you can expect a stretch of a little less than 1/2 inch....that's not bad. Fluoro, by design, will stretch more like monofilament...it will stretch more than you think. Hang a 20 pound weight on that leader and I guarantee you...it'll stretch...and it will be well over your stated 0.0001 of an inch. I'd wager that Nothing in the world of muskie fishing is THAT accurate...your talking 1/10,000 accuracy. you have that kind of equipment? 
I cannot narrow it down to just the leader, but that is where I am starting...it's the first indicator in my experience working with them that has changed and not made a positive impact on putting more fish in the net. So...I am just eliminating that variable...plain and simple...
I'm just not sold on the things and I am going back to what works FOR ME. I'm not going to force my opinion on someone about it...not my place in the world to do so...
that would be like telling Dick Pearson how to catch fish on lake of the woods...
Steve
Edited by VMS 1/4/2008 2:21 PM
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Posts: 2024
| It all boils down to what you've got confidence in. Some of my friends don't understand why I use fluoro here in IL and surrounding areas, but choose not to in Canada. I suppose my reasoning is that here in IL the likelihood of running into a 50"+ is rare so I'm willing to take the chance that a fish might somehow chew through my leader. I suppose I'm NOT willing to take ANY chances on BIG fish waters like LOTW or Mille Lacs. Some might disagree with me and say there is just as much likelihood for something to break on a wire leader as there is for on a fluoro leader. Cool, to each his own. My point is everyone has personal preferences usually dictated by confidence. I have confidence in steel being able to withstand a direct hit by a muskie's teeth. Not so much with fluoro.
At the same time, I REALLY like the added action that fluoro can give baits, as well as the non light reflecting capabilities. I'm sure if I stuck a few big fish on fluoro my opinion would change |
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Posts: 2037
Location: lansing, il | bottom line like sean says..you gotta use what you have confidence in! what works for some wont work for others. |
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| VMS - 1/4/2008 10:28 AM
I have been working with fluoro for 3 years now, and in my experiences with it, I have lost more fish on them. I have used both 90lb and 130lb and it didn't make any difference. Not exactly sure why, but I feel that there is a certain amount of stretch Steve
If hundreds of fish have been caught by some really good sticks using flouro.......O.K., humor me for a second. In your qoute above, how many more fish have you lost with them? I understand your applied math background but it may be actually clouding your judgement - you are using what is perhaps a very small sample and one that could be heavily biased...it is your own. My point is that you are right on the stretch point from a mathematical prospective but are then using junk science on your "statistics" about how many fish were lost right? I am not trying to be a smart butt but am honestly asking the question. I have been very much leaning towards going flouro and you made some great points, but the flaw in the thought process was evident also. There are simply too many variables to make such a statement I think (?)
Can we go fishing yet?! |
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Posts: 3480
Location: Elk River, Minnesota | No flaw in the thinking..or science behind it whatsoever-just considering the numbers in my own logs over the past 3 years using it, along with sevenstrand and straight-wire. The most glaring thing is the use of fluoro and the catch rates behind it. To a mathemetician, it's all about the numbers...
These are my experiences with the different things....
In looking at my numbers, I am very close to a 2:1 ratio in losses compared to netted fish with fluorocarbon as compared to about 1:5 losses to netted fish when using steel and/or sevenstrand. I am not going to post how many fish I have to base this on....not wanting to brag or go on some ego trip...my numbers really should be insignificant to all of you. I'm not in this sport to compare myself to anyone...I just want to catch as many as I can in a year, and hopefully put big ones in the net as a bonus. I will say, though, that I catch a fair share each year due to the ability to be on the water every day from early June through Late August, then weekends up through October.
Plenty of variables can lead to this happening...way more than I can possibly list. Why? Who knows...Is it all that pertinent? to be honest, I don't feel it is...I'm just making my own conclusion on the collected data I have. That's it. As Sean stated, it all really boils down to confidence in what you are using...I'm not confident with fluoro...my numbers over the years do not support staying with them at this time. Been fishing for Ski's since I was 8, and have just seemed to have more lost fish when using fluoro. The kicker (and this is what really puzzles me) is that I am almost exclusively fishing clear water (clarity down 16 feet at times...average is around 13 ft). Fluoro almost disappears in the water, but that doesn't seem to be any indicator to stay with it. Numbers of fish seen or hit isn't much different than the others...I see just as many fish hitting, following, etc with steel or sevenstrand as I do with Fluoro... As has been stated in many venues...a fish with the brain the size of a peanut isn't going to recognize or notice any difference if you have a clear leader or a wire leader...If they are hungry and triggered, they'll eat...plain and simple.
Will I turn fully away from the idea of using fluoro? Probably not...I'll visit them again...part of my nature to do so... It's just not going to happen this coming year.
Steve
Edited by VMS 1/4/2008 8:21 PM
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| VMS - fair enough. I think you nailed it, confidence is very important. I love throwing something I hadn't used before because of a lack of confidence, because I heard that the bait is "hot right now" or something like that. Well guess what, I snap one on and catch a fish - voila! my new confidence bait |
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Posts: 3867
| I've been using my own flouro leaders for about 6 years now. I use 80# Climax and a glued knot. Maybe 60 fish in the boat, and some major snags, without a single failure. Not one. And I very rarely lose any fish I hook. I see no reason why I need that crimp as used on Stealth, but people clearly sure do like those Stealth leaders.
Part of the reason I went to flouro is to minimize the downtime associated with replacing a kinked metal leader; and it seems metal (braided or straight) almost always kink in the net.
So, flouro for everything except gliders; on gliders I use my own 240# straight wire.
I should maybe mention that I try very hard to make sure the drag systems on my Abu reels are working perfectly. My reels are very clean, properly lubed and I replace all factory drag washers with Smoothies. I never, ever allow oil to get to the drag washers. I store the reels with the drag backed way off and I just reset every time I get back on the water.
Works great for me. |
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