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Gander Mt Guide |
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Posts: 2515 Location: Waukesha & Land O Lakes, WI | We're handing out DNR flyers regarding the use of dead bait and minnows. Rules ban moving live fish, water New statewide emergency regulations for boaters and anglers went into effect in November, 2007 to prevent them from accidentaly spreading VHS to new lakes or rivers. Under the statewide rules you: May not leave the bank or shore of any water with any live fish or live fish eggs, including LEFTOVER MINNOWS. (exception only for commercial wild bait harvest) Must drain all water from bilges, ballast, livewells, BAIT BUCKETS and other containers BEFORE you leave the bank or shore of any water May not use or posses live fish or live fish eggs as bait if bought outside Wisconsin. (exception for Mississippi river fishing, see the DNR web page) May not use DEAD fish, fish eggs or fish parts for bait, Exceptions: if you are fishing in the same water where the bait was collected:if it was preserved by a method that does not require refrigeration or freezing, or if you are fishing lake Michigan or GreenBay or their connected waters upstream to the first dam or obstruction. May not transport by land into Wisconsin and water in boats, boat trailers, boating equipment or fishing equipment, including water in any bilge, ballast tank, BAIT CONTAINER or LIVE WELL. I see three very important points that will effect Musky guys/gals. 1) You cannot transport your suckers from lake to lake 2) You cannot leave the lake with live suckers. 3) Folks coming from out of state must buy suckers here. | ||
| Bytor |
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Location: The Yahara Chain | What if you didn't put the suckers in your livewell. I am thinking about rigging up a cooler with an aeration system. I would think that as long as they didn't go in the lake or in the livewell, I would be legal in moving to another lake with my suckers in the cooler. Who will supply the garbage cans or clean up the mess?? | ||
| Gander Mt Guide |
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Posts: 2515 Location: Waukesha & Land O Lakes, WI | Read the first and second point. If the cooler has water, you must dump it and the suckers MUST be dead. | ||
| Pointerpride102 |
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Posts: 16632 Location: The desert | Keep the minnows or suckers that you dont think you'll use in your truck/car and you will likely be ok, although it is likely up to the disgression of the DNR warden. But it shouldnt be a hard regualtion to deal with. | ||
| Cowboyhannah |
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Posts: 1460 Location: Kronenwetter, WI | I've come across interpretation that says even if you leave a minnow bucket in your truck at the landing, you must kill before you leave. | ||
| TJ DeVoe |
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Posts: 2323 Location: Stevens Point, WI | Pointerpride102 - 12/13/2007 6:31 PM Keep the minnows or suckers that you dont think you'll use in your truck/car and you will likely be ok, although it is likely up to the disgression of the DNR warden. But it shouldnt be a hard regualtion to deal with. After talking with Keith Worrall yesterday, this is exactly what his boss from the Woodruff DNR office said. As long as the bait has not been taken on the water and or ice, you will be ok from what he told me yesterday. He also stated that people already have been getting pinched, so take this seriously! | ||
| Gander Mt Guide |
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Posts: 2515 Location: Waukesha & Land O Lakes, WI | In the flyer we got at Gander, there's a Q&A section of likely FAQ's. "Can I leave the bulk of my minnows/bait in my vehicle at the landing and take what I need as not to have to kil all of them at the end of the day?" DNR says "YES", BUT before loading or unloading, that cooler, bucket or well must be removed from the vehicle before the truck/trailer reaches the shoreline. | ||
| Oneida Esox |
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| I am all for protecting WI waters, but this one is confusing and cumbersome to say the least. In my eyes the only true way to do what the DNR is trying to do here is to allow use of bait that you trapped on the lake that you are fishing. Unless you posess a chain of custody of the bait that you are using I see no teeth in this law what so ever. Example-what if someone traps a bunch of bait from Lake Michigan, say around Two Rivers and then brings the bait to Rhinelander to fish. I dont believe there is a law against this and I could see this as a dangerous situation. Again, I see only two ways to accomplish this. Ban the use of live bait, or allow you to use bait that is trapped on the lake your are fishing. Again, I am all for protecting WI waters but I just don't get this?!?!?! | |||
| muskie-addict |
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Posts: 272 | I've said this before regarding this new rule but, this is a little like putting a plaster cast on a papercut, while ignoring the fact you're bleeding out through your leg. Great, I stopped VHS from entering a new lake via my minnows, which is a stretch, but the water IN my trailer tubing, lower unit and bilge brought it anyway. Even if you drain EVERYTHING, which is impossible, you're never going to get it all when you're "hole hopping" from lake to lake in an area dotted with different waters like Vilas Co, etc. So, my response to this is, yes, it will help curb the spread of VHS in the minnows, but it wil be accidentally be brought into new waters, by the same anglers, on the same day.....just by other means. All of this of course ignoring the fact that the DNR has said it believes VHS can remain "alive" in your minnow bucket for up to 14 days. That little fact in itself sure seems to say that this rule will basically do nothing other than put some baitsellers out of business, put a strain on the rest, and make fishing with live bait on multiple waters, or on successive days even on the same water...a ROYAL pain. This is a "well, we gotta do something" regulation. I am ALL for protecting our waters, trust me. But I'm sorry to say that unless they ban all live bait sales, and all inter-waterway boat traffic, (fisihing and pleasure craft) indications are that this disease IS coming, and so is the next, and the next and the next. | ||
| millsie |
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Posts: 189 Location: Barrington, Il | Time to rethink trolling? | ||
| Jerry Newman |
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Location: 31 | Thanks for the information John. The live bait regulations are pretty darn straightforward. Referencing a broader view of VHS though... I question relaunching on an inland lake with a wet boat (more specifically wet trailer bunks) after fishing known VHS waters. I thought about spraying the bunks like I do my landing net with three parts water and one part bleach after netting a fish. However, I just noticed my favorite burgundy sweatshirt has some pink spots on the sleeves and I don't want my bunk carpeting to end up like that. Does anyone know if there's something other than bleach we can use for the situations? | ||
| CiscoKid |
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Posts: 1906 Location: Oconto Falls, WI | Sure the killing of your minnows (and fish kept) before leaving the lake won’t completely stop the spread of VHS, but it is one place we can start in stopping the spread. You can’t expect that overnight every possible way to stop the spread of this will be implemented and adhered to. All we can do is try to minimize the possibility of spreading it. Killing your bait and fish before leaving the lake is one way to minimize the spread. Do I like the rule. Heck no. It will make it a pain. More frequent trips to a bait shop, and it may change when I fish due to the bait shops usually aren’t open when I go fishing, or return from fishing. However, it’s now the law in WI so I will abide by it. I’m just glad I musky fish most of the time, and when I am not I don’t rely on minnows that heavily. The only time it really makes it a pain for me is ice fishing lakes that you could go through 3 dozen sucker minnows on walleyes in a day. The poor DNR just can’t win. One minute they are blamed they aren’t doing enough for the WI fisheries. The next minute they are being scrutinized for implementing a rule, that mind you is in the best interest of all WI fisheries, that simply makes it more of a hassle for the fisherman. The problem I have with the new rule is it isn’t being advertised, or getting out to the public like it should be. Other than on the internet, I haven’t seen where the public is being informed of this rule change. There are a lot of guys that don’t get on the web, and therefore are more than likely clueless that this rule is in effect. Maybe it has been mentioned on the news once or twice, or in a paper one weekend. That’s great if you watch the news and read the paper. I don’t. I have been to several bait shops, and not once has it been mentioned. In my opinion every bait dealer selling minnows, wigglers, leaches, and whatever else comes in water should be informing their customers of this rule. From what I understand bait shops have been certified to sell minnows that don’t have VHS, so part of this certification should include making it mandatory they inform their customers of the rule. The other problem I see is the dumping of bait that is now mandatory. I haven’t seen it yet, but will every landing on every lake have a dumpster of some sort for this bait? I am pretty sure that if everyone just starts dumping bait at the landing it is going to get mighty stinky at the lakes. Throw on top of that I am pretty sure it is looked at as littering if you dump them on the ground. I think it’s great that you guys are starting to distribute flyers! I’m off the soap box now. | ||
| esoxaddict |
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Posts: 8840 | Hate to say it, but the only real way to do it is to ban live bait fishing unless the bait was taken from that lake. That won't stop the inevitable transport of water from lake to lake though. | ||
| Gander Mt Guide |
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Posts: 2515 Location: Waukesha & Land O Lakes, WI | "The poor DNR just can’t win. One minute they are blamed they aren’t doing enough for the WI fisheries." The DNR had the authority to control ballast water dumping from incoming and outgoing freighters for dyears and has done nothing. There was just an article on that in the Milwaukee Journal Sentinal last week about this. | ||
| Oneida Esox |
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| Travis, not sure if you are directing that at me but your argument about "the DNR can't win" doesn't work with me. I am a big supporter of the DNR and realize that they have a VERY tough job, but I am also known to call a spade a spade. THIS IS A STUPID RULE. Unless you can back track your bait to it's origin and have proof of that on you, this is a band aid at best. If they want to stop the spread of VHS they have to ban live bait use unless it is trapped in the lake that you are fishing in. If the minnows are infected when you buy them, they will be infected when you drop them into the lake. This makes no sense. Edited by Oneida Esox 12/14/2007 1:14 PM | |||
| B420 |
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Posts: 382 | Who is going to be in charge of towel drying the ducks, geese, loons, and other waterfowl before they fly from lake to lake? | ||
| Pointerpride102 |
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Posts: 16632 Location: The desert | B420 - 12/14/2007 1:31 PM Who is going to be in charge of towel drying the ducks, geese, loons, and other waterfowl before they fly from lake to lake? Exactly why VHS is going to be near impossible to control. Onieda, I agree that unless the bait is tested to be VHS free this bait law is pretty pointless. Now I am not entirely sure, but I thought I read somewhere that some bait was tested before sold to bait shops and it obviously needed to be VHS free before it was sold, but maybe I missread something somewhere or it was just an idea, I have no hard evidence on that, just thought I read it somewhere. | ||
| Will Schultz |
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Location: Grand Rapids, MI | Jerry Newman - 12/14/2007 11:19 AM I thought about spraying the bunks like I do my landing net with three parts water and one part bleach after netting a fish. Does anyone know if there's something other than bleach we can use for the situations? Jerry - You don't need to mix the bleach that strong 10% is the suggested mix. If you're using a 32oz spray bottle you only need 4 tablespoons. Chlorine works too but will still bleach stuff. Edited by Will Schultz 12/14/2007 1:50 PM | ||
| esoxaddict |
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Posts: 8840 | Since we don't know everything about VHS and how it spreads, what do you suggest we do, wait? Do nothing? We'll never be able to prevent every possible transmission of the virus, but trying to stop the things we KNOW should help, what's so bad about that? | ||
| CiscoKid |
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Posts: 1906 Location: Oconto Falls, WI | John, I was not referring to you at all and I am not sure why you thought that way. I have attached a few links from the WI DNR website about the use of baitfish. From what I can tell there are some things in place already that involves the testing of minnows from rearing locations. So you have to believe any bait shops that receives minnows from these locations are VHS free. Any bait shops that trap their own minnows also have to abide by certain rules. While this doesn’t prevent these bait shops from necessarily selling VHS infected baitfish, there should be a means of backtracking and quarantining the use of that bait if it is found to have VHS in the future. I also saw someplace where it mentioned all the bait shops that are licensed, but I can’t seem to find it now. All these links are from the WI DNR website. Here is a link that talks about the sale and trapping of baitfish by dealers. http://dnr.wi.gov/fish/pages/vhs_qapreventionandtesting.html Here are FAQ’s about the new rule: http://dnr.wi.gov/fish/pages/vhs_qaanglers.html More on VHS prevention: http://dnr.wi.gov/fish/pages/vhs_prevent.html I agree one step to possibly slowing the spread of VHS is to ban the use of live bait, but I think that is a pretty hard line to draw. Perhaps in the future this will become a law if the issue gets worse. I do think that the current rule is a step in trying to get it under control. This can’t be that much of a silly rule if other states already have something very similar in place. I am pretty sure Michigan has something similar as well as I thought New York and maybe New Jersey. | ||
| Jono |
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Posts: 726 Location: Eau Claire, WI | pointer, I read the same thing re: health certification. should drive up the price pretty good and slow down time to market. are bait guys really doing that? anyone know? | ||
| tfootstalker |
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Posts: 299 Location: Nowheresville, MN | Oneida Esox - 12/14/2007 9:28 AM Example-what if someone traps a bunch of bait from Lake Michigan, say around Two Rivers and then brings the bait to Rhinelander to fish. I dont believe there is a law against this and I could see this as a dangerous situation. You forgot the main objective of the rule... May not leave the bank or shore of any water with any live fish or live fish eggs, including LEFTOVER MINNOWS. (exception only for commercial wild bait harvest) "Yes, you can collect minnows for personal use as long as you only use them for bait on the water you collected them from, but it is illegal to transport any such live minnows away from the waterbody where you caught them." | ||
| tyee |
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| tfoot, If you are going to collect bait for personal use you are limited in the amount and you need a permit. I believe this is being looked at or possibly being eliminated so you must have a bait dealers license | |||
| Jerry Newman |
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Location: 31 | "Jerry - You don't need to mix the bleach that strong 10% is the suggested mix. If you're using a 32oz spray bottle you only need 4 tablespoons. Chlorine works too but will still bleach stuff." Thanks Will. Looks like I was definitely mixing my bleach solution a touch too strong eh'... anyone want to buy a pink sleeved sweatshirt? | ||
| tyee |
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| December 19, 2007 TO: Anglers who have contacted us with concerns about VHS rules Subject: Responding to your comments on VHS rules Dear Sir or Madam: Thank you for your recent communication on administrative rules to control the spread of the fish disease viral hemorrhagic septicemia (VHS). As with all our ongoing efforts to develop policies and rules to manage our critical natural resources, we appreciate any and all input from interested citizens and strive to incorporate this input wherever possible. The Natural Resources Board – which is the Governor-appointed citizen board that sets policies and makes rules for the DNR – met on December 5 to consider final VHS permanent rules. I shared all comments that I received before the meeting directly with Board members so they were aware of your individual concerns before making decisions. In addition, the department held 11 different formal public hearings since May 2007 on VHS rules, and board members publicly discussed these rules at six different board meetings, so they are making their decisions based on extensive public input. At their December 5 meeting, the NR Board did approve a set of final permanent rules. These rules extend to the entire state requirements that have been in effect in many areas of the state since April 2007. All boaters and anglers are now required to drain all water out of their boating and fishing equipment when leaving the water or entering Wisconsin over land from another state, and are prohibited from moving live fish or fish eggs away from any water without a permit. Emergency rules in effect this spring and summer required these actions only on Lake Winnebago, the Great Lakes, the Mississippi River and all connecting waters up to the first barrier impassible to fish. More information about the NR Board’s action and generally about VHS can be found on our website at http://dnr.wi.gov/fish/pages/vhs.html. Many of the comments we have received concern use and reuse of minnows for bait. Many of you have made very reasonable suggestions for ways in which unused minnows could be saved for use on another lake or another day without spreading VHS. During their deliberations on December 5, the NR Board did consider an amendment to the rules which would have allowed people to keep leftover minnows if they had not exchanged water in their minnow bucket and were only going to use them later on the same waterbody. The fundamental problem with this and similar exceptions is that it is impossible to tell if people are complying. There is simply no way to keep track of minnows once they leave the water, and there is no way to know where the minnows that are being taken off the water actually came from. They could have even been netted from the water itself, which would be very troubling if that water had VHS. We know that the vast majority of anglers care about Wisconsin’s fisheries resources and would certainly follow the rules to avoid spreading VHS. Our experience, however, also shows there are always a few people who disregard the rules. If law enforcement personnel do not have a way to actually identify and catch those few people, those people have little incentive to do the right thing. The NR Board members discussed this issue at length and fully understood that they were choosing between a set of rules that would be less popular but would be legally enforceable and a set of rules that - if everyone followed them - would prevent the spread of VHS but because they are legally unenforceable would essentially be voluntary. In the end, there were some differences of opinions among NRB members, but they passed rules that would in fact be enforceable. Wisconsin has some of the nation’s best fishing resources and most popular fishing, and NR Board members were unwilling to place these at the mercy of voluntary regulations. Many of you expressed other concerns with the rules. While I cannot address each of your letters and e-mails individually, I have tried to summarize some of the issues that have been considered in detail and at length by the Department and the Natural Resources Board as part of the development of the rules: 1. The virus is not likely to be transmitted by residual bilge water or birds. By far, the most likely way in which VHS will be transmitted to another water body is infected fish, with large quantities of contaminated water a distant second. It is very unlikely that VHS will be transmitted by water remaining in bilges or pumps after they are drained, or boats and equipment that are just still wet, or by birds or animals. There must be a threshold level of virus particles transferred before fish in another water can actually catch the disease. An infected fish can easily transfer the disease because they are alive and their bodies continually manufacture and spread virus particles - or they can be eaten by an uninfected fish. Contaminated water can spread enough virus particles, but only if large quantities of water are moved. Small amounts of water simply won't contain enough virus particles to infect fish in another water body. Also, the virus does not survive when a fish is eaten by a bird or mammal, so there is no live virus in any animal droppings. It is possible that a bird could carry some virus in the water on its feathers, but again, it is unlikely that enough virus will be transferred to infect fish in another water. So the approach that we have taken is to focus on the most likely vectors which are potentially infected fish and larger quantities of potentially contaminated water. 2. The horse is not out of the barn. There are still thousands of lakes and miles of rivers in Wisconsin that do not have VHS and can be protected by aggressive control measures. VHS has been in Great Lakes waters of New York and Michigan since at least 2005, and so far there are only 3 inland waters in New York and 1 in Michigan that have been infected (please note that state officials in those states believe infected minnows were responsible for all of the inland infections). 3. We will never know exactly which waters have VHS at any given time. Whatever regulation system we have, it cannot rely on knowing exactly what waters are infected with VHS. To date, DNR has tested about 150 lots of fish from around 50 waters statewide. In 2008 we are hoping to expand this to another 80-90 waters. That is the practical limit given our current staffing and available laboratory testing capacity. This level of testing does give us a good idea generally which watersheds have VHS, but with 15,000 lakes and 44,000 miles of rivers and streams, there is no way we will ever be able to definitely tell people exactly which waters have VHS and which do not. That is one of the reasons that the Natural Resources Board has chosen to expand regulations aimed at curbing the movement of live fish and large quantities of water to all waters statewide. 4. No control measures will work unless anglers and boaters know about the threat from VHS. We wholeheartedly agree that public education and information is our best weapon in this fight. In 2007 we did a lot to get the word out including press releases, signs at landings, public information materials, paid advertising on radio and TV, watercraft inspections, direct outreach to reporters, clubs, and anglers, and a comprehensive VHS website (http://dnr.wi.gov/fish/pages/vhs.html). And we will continue and expand that effort in 2008. 5. There is no cure for VHS once it infects fish. There is no way to treat minnows to make them safe from VHS. VHS is a fish virus and there is no treatment or cure once a fish is infected. We have provided disinfection procedures for water and equipment on our website, but the concentrations of chemicals or temperatures needed to kill the virus in the water would also kill any fish in the water. The only way to prevent the spread of VHS is to make sure that infected fish are not moved to other waterbodies. 6. Commercial wild bait harvesters, fish farmers, and minnow importers must meet strict fish health inspection and testing standards. Under current DNR and Wisconsin Department of Agriculture, Trade and Consumer Protection regulations, all minnows available for sale or distribution in Wisconsin will have undergone a fish health inspection performed by an accredited professional. Wisconsin has among the most stringent fish health testing requirements in the US which will ensure that the risk of introducing or spreading VHS or other fish diseases is minimized. The only exception is for anglers who harvest bait for their personal use on the same waterbody which is allowable without testing though the fish may not be moved away from that waterbody. Again, there is more information about wild bait harvesting on our VHS webpage. Ultimately, all of us anglers and boaters must take personal responsibility to make sure that our recreational activities are not spreading harmful invasive species or diseases. Sometimes it means that we have to take a step back and look at the situation from a statewide perspective, and we may find that the best thing for everyone is to change how we've been doing things in the past. I encourage you to continue to participate in the dialogue on this difficult issue and continue to make suggestions on how to make things better. The Department and the Natural Resources Board do listen to what is being said and try to take everyone's concerns into account when making final decisions. What might not seem like a good idea today may eventually end up being the right solution. I have attached as Word files, several other informational documents that may be of help in understanding the new rules. If you cannot open them, they will soon be available for viewing on our VHS webpage: http://dnr.wi.gov/fish/pages/vhs.html Thanks again for your help and input on this issue. Sincerely, Michael Staggs, Director Bureau of Fisheries Management | |||
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