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Posts: 3242
Location: Racine, Wi | Reef Hawg - 8/31/2007 11:48 AM
That said, just swallowed a 5" piece of floro. Will let you know how it goes upon my return from antisuckerdom(MN) in a few days....
That is too funny!!!
If you drink enough Blatz, you should have no issues Jason. |
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Location: north central wisconsin | Just PBR for me Joel.... and the shelves are always well stocked with it over there(too busy drinking Schmidt or something of the sort there). Same three dusty 12ers still sitting on the shelf in a Tower shop last weekend... soon to be 2....hehehe
You are right though. We used to buy a case of blatz at UWSP and eat the bottle cap from each one. Cannot remember pooping a single one. The empty cases made for great apartment furniture too. Think my girlfriend/wife thought I was attractive??? Phhooooof, she just liked my home decorating skills.
Edited by Reef Hawg 8/31/2007 12:03 PM
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Posts: 1906
Location: Oconto Falls, WI | Wow, is it January?
This topic intrigues me, and I would have to say this is a pretty unique/creative way of fishing. As some have said, to each his own. I agree that setting the hook, getting fish to jump, etc.. is a blast and why I do it. However, the anticipation that Abe mentions is a whole new aspect some of us may have never, or will ever experience. Heck I may even be willing to try this out.
Not sure how this method could be condemed. Sure fish saftey is important, and we should always be concerened about it....to a point. I would be a whole lot more concerned for a fish that I may hook it badly than I would about it passing a few inches of line.  |
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| The empty cases made for great apartment furniture too.
ah, the halcyon days of Leinie's coffee tables...
All I'm saying is that there is more than a reasonable chance that it's going to screw up the GI tract, and for that reason I wouldn't think it a safe way to release fish.
let's keep in mind that fishing this way does not automatically mean the fish ends up with a meal of fluoro, it's only the rare fish that it happens to. Abe states that the vast majority of fish puke up the sucker, and i imagine a couple tugs on the leader in the net would help encourage it to do so.
fishing quick strikes is my preferred method, but i've had a couple fish take the sucker deeply and get hooks back in the gills. i don't think those fish lived. come to think of it, i've had one or two take a bucktail deep and not survive too. there's a small but significant (~10%?) amount of fish who don't survive being caught. to my mind, this technique probably reduces the likelihood of fish mortality.
and heck, it sounds interesting. it might not be everyone's cup of tea, but we are a bunch of people who choose to fish for muskies at least in part because they're hard to catch. this technique actually increases the challenge to a certain extent...
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Location: Oconomowoc, WI | I find this entire thread quite humorous. |
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Location: chicago | Did anyone ever see them fish for sail fish with dead bait. They make a harness threw the eyes and then take a circle hook and attach it to the harness. Works great not a bad idea for muskies!!!! |
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Posts: 61
Location: Avilla, IN | If it is legal then he certainly has a right to fish with this method. I personally wouldn't want leave a foreign object in the fish. I also wonder how much internal damage is done to a muskies stomach. After all, you are hauling this fish in by using an object wedged in its digestive system. Maybe thats why they come in easy. |
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Posts: 130
Location: Menomonee Falls, WI | First off...let me start by saying that by no means did I wish to start a debate about what is and is not good for a muskys digestive system. The original post asked if hookless sucker fishing works. I mearly responded that it does work and detailed what has worked for me and what to expect if you do try it.
I respect all of your opinions and you all have a right to speak your mind. That's what makes these boards great. BUT.....I'd prefer not to be ridiculed for something that most fisherman aren't familiar with. It seems like the HOT topic of debate here is the flourocarbon that would potentialy be left in the stomach of a musky. I say potentialy because I have had only a couple fish that have never puked a sucker. In all but those 2 cases the musky has puked the sucker. Here are those examples:
A: When realing the fish up
B: Before we had a chance to net the fish
C: As we netted the fish
D: In the net after
E: As the fish was being released
IMO this tactic poses no more of a risk to a musky than fishing with quick strike rigs!!! Actually I think it poses less of a risk. Those worse thing that can happen is that the musky would have to pass a foot or two of flouro. I think that's better than a throat full of trebels as Shep stated earlier. |
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| Nothing wrong with inciting a debate, Abe. I just get a bit riled by some who go to extremes to cite reasons for not doing something a certain way. Reasons that bear absolutely no fact, but are stated in such a way to make them seem factual. You know, the old, "There's a good chance that this is not good for the fish" And pretty sure digestive juices in a fish are different than ours, and sulfuric acid.
If as you say, in 75 fish, only 2 have not puked up the sucker, I'd say that is a pretty good ratio. And, there's a good chance that those two fish survived.
And I ain't gonna be waiting on Reef Hawg's next bowel movement to see if that flouro comes out. I'll leave that for TuffDaddy.
John, I understand some of your reasons for not agreeing with this method. But, in general, you disapprove of any live bait fishing for muskies. Correct?
So, I'm done with this one, except to say again, that I have heard, and I do believe this is an effective way to fish for muskies. It's another tool to use, that's all. Like circle hook fishing, without the hook.
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| I find this intriguing as well. Would take a deft touch to perfect no doubt. Never hurts to pioneer a little on a personal level, it makes for a better angler in the long run. I don't really think this would hurt the fish too much either, the leader is not poisonous. Would be interesting to see how long it takes for the mono to pass, I bet it would in a few days. I've caught "lesser" fish(walleye) that have line coming out the back but it still attached to a hook stuck in the gut, so the line is able to pass. Its interesting way to fish, I'd like to see how it's done firsthand.
Later
Sackett |
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Posts: 130
Location: Menomonee Falls, WI | Just to let everyone know. I didn't pioneer this method, I didn't invent it. I just mearly use this as another tactic in my arsenal. I had heard about this method about 6 or 7 years ago and like many others was very skeptical. A friend of mine told me he used it and it worked with some success. BTW. He isn't the pioneer either. I asked him and he showed me how he rigged it up and explained the technique. I then (out of sheer curiocity) tried it out myself. To my amazement...#*$%!!!!! It worked!!! The first fish that I had action on actually puked the sucker out at the net, but I was sold that it could work in some fashion. So like anything, the more you do it the more proficient you get. Which is why I still employ this method today. Simply stated IT WORKS! |
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Location: WI | 2 out of 75 fish seems like pretty good odds to me.......
I would suspect that they average quick set sucker fisherman would not be able to say there was a CHANCE that 2 of their 75 fish might not have survived after being caught on a quick set.
The worse case scenerio on this style is the flourocarbon didn't pass through.
Maybe some innovator can come up with a "muskie ipecac syrup" and we can all go home happy tonight.
GotOne |
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| Kevin Mahlberg - 8/31/2007 12:15 PM
I find this entire thread quite humorous.
Getting funnier.  |
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Location: Menomonee Falls, WI | Yup....I'm done!!  |
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Location: Wauwatosa, Wisconsin | LMAO @ ReefHawg ! I was wondering who would take up the gauntlet and give it a try. I bet you were the guy in high school who dared to swallow the goldfish! Can't wait to hear how your lower colon flossing went.
g
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Location: Lincoln UK | So if I'm reading this right you are advocating allowing the fish to swallow a bait so that all the forces of the fight are exerted on the stomach? I can't off the top of my head think of anything to do with angling that would increase the rate of mortality than that, Esox are delicate creatures at the best of times but pulliong them in by their stomachs is an absolutely ludicrous idea. The fight would surely be prolonged as the fish would "have it's head" if caught in such a fashion unlike being hooked in the mouth where the head is the part being controlled.
To actually worry about a few inches of flouro in the stomach when the stomach is being exerted to so much trauma is surely the last of the fish's worries. |
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Actually I fish with Mainia Lift Off rigs quite a bit. I love to fish with suckers.
I caught my biggest fish ever last fall on an 18" sucker.
Listen, I'm not trying to personally offend anyone.
I'm just reading about this for the first time, wondering about it and asking questions, and giving my opinion.
You don't have to agree with it, or like it. But don't put the assumption out there that I think I know more than anyone else, or think I'm better than anyone else.
I agree 100% with what Chico said, I'm sorry, but I just can't see this technique being good in any way for a fish.
JS |
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| I have never tried this before either but you stated that every time they come to the top the puke right away so could you just measure the fish take a few pics with the sucker still in its belly and then put it back in the water and just let it puke your bait and line back up? Just a thought. Either way no hooks sounds much safer to the fish than big hooks in the face, gills, or even some times the head. |
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Location: north central wisconsin | Not feeling the best today. Could be due to a long night at/after the unbelievable Alice Cooper show last night. Still in music dream land. Ooooops.... felt a bit of pressure.... gotta GO!!!!!!!!!!! |
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Location: Muskegon Michigan | Heres waht you do. I almost tried to make and patent this. Its called Fish line . Made from braided Salmon skin. I would build the line to be about 50 lb test. I would thread it through or tie it around the sucker . I would use a soft downrigger rod spooled with 30 lob mono. I would let the Musky swallow the sucker and then gently reel him in with the drag very loose. If the fish wanted to take line so be it. The soft downrigger rod works like a shock absorber. Bring the fish in,net it , photo it and cut the leader off. The leader is not only unharmfull but good for the musky. You get your picture the fish gets its dinner. I thought about just using cotton string. The No strike Rig. Has a neat ring doesnt it? I would think any digestable string would work fine. Cotton, Wool, Horse hair, But making a leader out of Braided fish skin would be cool no? Fish Line ha ha ha ha ha . A side note ,anyone who has ever stripped the hide off of a big King Salmon knows how sinuey and tough the skin is. Kingfisher
Edited by Kingfisher 9/1/2007 1:07 PM
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Location: Bloomington, Illinois | I'd like to hear a fish biologist's opinion on the effects of the fighting/reeling in a fish with the pressure on the stomach of the fish (delayed mortality a possibility?)...I learned in college (more than once) that the esophagus is not a two way street LOL This thread does seem more like one of the dead of winter cabin fever discussions...To each their own...Interesting concept...interesting reading... |
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Location: The desert | I dont think this is something we need to be getting our panties in a bunch about. Sounds like Abe really knows how to work the hookless sucker rigs and do it effectively and safely. To me its rather intriguing and would like to see this technique in action.
Delicate creatures? C'mon. They are actually relatively hearty creatures. They arent newborn children that we need to be very gentle with. |
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Location: Lincoln UK | Pointerpride102 - 9/1/2007 9:23 AM
Delicate creatures? C'mon. They are actually relatively hearty creatures. They arent newborn children that we need to be very gentle with.
very hardy in their own enviroment but vert holds, bad handling etc and the mortality rate rockets. Vert holds have been written about everywhere, excess strain on the organs is something to be avoided at all costs, pulling in by the stomach....which century are we in? |
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Posts: 186
Location: West Chicago, IL | If they're such delicate creatures, we shouldn't be sticking them with a face full of metal as hard as we can. A lot of our full force hook sets are in their throats and gills. I can't really see how this way of fishing could possibly do more damage to them as that. |
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