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| I have been chasing muskies for about 10 years now, and while I have read many books, magazines, and internet pages about how to trigger a following muskie, I have never heard the question raised as to why they do it in the first place. Are they looking for scent, weakness, being territorial and chasing or all of the above? Thoughts? |
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| Typical ambush predator behavior
Hide
Stalk
Chase
Kill
Eat
I believe the reason they follow is pure instinct. Thing moving through water = food. Since that thing (your lure) moving through the water doesn't look swim, smell, or react like normal prey, it often does not get eaten.
I'd be willing to bet that not nearly as many real fish get followed by muskies without getting eaten. |
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| almost ALL fish will follow your bait if they are not certain it is food....since a muskie is at the top of the foodchain and knows it can "overcome" your presentation at anytime I believe they are often curious and willing to chase because most living/moving things in the water try to avoid thier "space". Once you invade the muskies "space"(changes daily even hourly and can be disturbed by speed and erractic action of "prey")....they move/chase- if the fish wants to eat you cant hardly take a bait away from them!
Edited by IAJustin 8/23/2007 2:12 PM
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| I have always wondered that, if game fish get followed as much as lures do. |
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| well they sure like to follow walleyes being caught  |
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| Think about this one. The need for speed at boatside. If, in the wild, prey slows down, it's dead.Ever see a baitfish slow down when it's being chased? Doesn't matter if it's a crappie or a muskie. Slow down......get eaten. I have watched 50 fish bolt at boatside this season when the angler slowed the bait or just plain stopped it. You can lead a horse........ Steve |
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Location: S.E. Wisconsin | C. Painter has a good article in the new M.H. mag about what baitfish acually do when they get chased....its a good prespective from a fish's P.O.V. |
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| Steve Jonesi - 8/23/2007 2:17 PM
Think about this one. The need for speed at boatside. If, in the wild, prey slows down, it's dead.Ever see a baitfish slow down when it's being chased? Doesn't matter if it's a crappie or a muskie. Slow down......get eaten. I have watched 50 fish bolt at boatside this season when the angler slowed the bait or just plain stopped it. You can lead a horse........ Steve
Steve - I know what you are saying .........but if someone new to muskie fishing reads your post - wouldn't they want to slow the bait down? "prey slows down it's dead" ....just playing devils advocate
Bottom line- they DON'T follow when you do everything perfect AND the fish wants to eat...........what we live for is "tricking" them at boatside.
Edited by IAJustin 8/23/2007 2:36 PM
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Location: Madtown, WI | Hey Waterdemon glad you like the article!
Cory |
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Location: Ames, Iowa | Hey Dog- Start twitching those crankbaits and I think you will get more hookups. Something about a twitched bait that flips out the fish and turns them on to hit.
Don |
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| Agreed on the article, Cory. Made a lot of sense. My wife & will try it out on LOTW in a few weeks.
I'll let you know how well it works!
ErieBoy75 |
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Location: Minnetonka | Right on to all... and I second Painter's advice in that article... EXCELLENT... Borovsky first introduced me to that element in The Golden Age of Musky. Ever since I've implemented that 3rd dimension to my 8s, all of my fish eat at the exact same spot where the bait rises and makes the left to right outside turn... a 9' rod helps. Uncanny results.
I know, I know I didn't address the post. I guess I'm not concerned with WHY they follow... I just figure 8 'em with the 3rd dimension and try do a bad job at playing keep away (both covered by C. Painter in MH).
Jonesi... I hear you on the Mille Lacs fish bolting. Those fish are Einsteins!
Edited by Hammskie 8/24/2007 9:24 AM
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Location: Contrarian Island | one thing to note..the illustration in the article is off...(cory didn't do the illustration) as Donnie so eloquently told me one time on Eagle....DON'T turn the bait into the boat on the outside turns....do the 8 so you take your bait out and away from the boat...the illustration for those just learning to fig 8 has the bait turning into the boat on the outside....always take the bait out and away.... |
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Location: Madtown, WI | Yep the illustration I gave them was as brad discribes...but Mr Bortz did the illustrations for the mag...and did a great job I might add. But yes as Brad Stated (and Mr. Hunt taught me as well long ago) Out from the boat and not in.
Cory |
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Location: Prairie du Sac, Wisconsin | I think sometimes they follow out of curiosity too. You will see a lot of other fish follow various types of baits. How many times have you had a bunch of 4 inch perch follow on a big double bucktail. In the clear water we fish in Canada, we see that all of the time. Hve had walleye do the same. I don't think that they intend to eat it, just curious. I am sure that all species have that instinct too. |
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| MSKY HNR - 8/24/2007 9:38 AM
one thing to note..the illustration in the article is off...(cory didn't do the illustration) as Donnie so eloquently told me one time on Eagle....DON'T turn the bait into the boat on the outside turns....do the 8 so you take your bait out and away from the boat...the illustration for those just learning to fig 8 has the bait turning into the boat on the outside....always take the bait out and away....
This is a great point, but for the life of me I cant picture how you could get yourself in a position where the outside turn would be going toward the boat... |
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Location: Contrarian Island | very easily....say you swing the bait out too quick and turn it into the boat....i see quite a few guys that are just learning that fish with me do this....take a look at the illustration and you can easily figure out how it could be done....
Edited by MSKY HNR 8/24/2007 10:44 AM
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Location: Grand Rapids MN | I see I will definitely have to read Cory's article. But as far as to why they follow I guess here's my 2 cents worth. Since I've owned an underwater camera for a few years now it's amazing to see how often fish will 'hang' around a bait before they eat it. All species. Unless the fish are just plain feeding; they seem to do some 'stocking' of their prey before biting. Ever notice that you can be trolling for walleyes pulling spinners and for some reason right after you move the rod or lift it out of the holder you get a bit or when ice fishing the bait can sit there and as soon as you move it they are more willing to feed. They were hanging around the bait and the change in movement made them want to bite. Seems the fish are willing to eat but not feeding to the point where they just inhale the bait once it gets wet. I've sat and watched fish on the camera following baits and it was more frequent than I would have ever thought. Maybe muskies are the same way; willing to eat but not in a big feeding frenzy and decide to stalk their prey for a while until it becomes more appealing.
Just a thought. |
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Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | Look at the reality of the situation from what a muskie sees, feels, etc, taking out anthropomorphism:
The bait creates a stimulus when it either gets in vibration, sound or visual range (or all three at the same time, one doesn't know for sure) of the fish. If the stimulus is strong, and the response is strong, you get an immediate strike. However, if one or more of the hundreds of variables cause the response from the fish to be less than desired, they may ignore the presentation completely, follow for just a bit, or follow all the way to the boat. If the response is 'strengthening' as the fish follows, a figure 8 changing the vantage point from which the fish sees the lure, the fact a figure 8 crosses the streroscopic field of vision if done as Cory describes, as the fact the PERSPECTIVE suddenly changes, you get the response you are looking for...a strike. Sometimes the 8 simply allows the fish to locate and eat the lure, sometimes it helps trigger, and sometimes it IS the trigger.
All of this has so much to do with the fish's 'attitude' at the time. Light penetration, the direction the lure comes from and is going in relation to the position of the fish, the solunar period's timing, barometric pressure and trends, water temps, the position of the lure in the water column in comparison to the position of the fish, and much much more.
Too simply put, a follow without a strike after a correctly executed 8, is a fish that didn't respond strongly enough to the stimulus. The WHY is where the Devil lies in the details; and as a friend who is a scientist said once..."no one will ever know until we can ask a Muskie, and the muskie answers..." |
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| BALDY - 8/24/2007 10:28 AM
MSKY HNR - 8/24/2007 9:38 AM
one thing to note..the illustration in the article is off...(cory didn't do the illustration) as Donnie so eloquently told me one time on Eagle....DON'T turn the bait into the boat on the outside turns....do the 8 so you take your bait out and away from the boat...the illustration for those just learning to fig 8 has the bait turning into the boat on the outside....always take the bait out and away....
This is a great point, but for the life of me I cant picture how you could get yourself in a position where the outside turn would be going toward the boat...
I have to agree with Baldy, there is a great "duh??" factor going here. Sorry.
Here's a figure 8 by the boat 8[]
Tell me again how you DON'T turn the bait into the boat on the outside turns????
Most people will be easier able to place the bait into sectors consisting of R, L and inside and outside.
Are we trying to say that the top of the 8 in the illustration should be done in a counter clockwise rotation, and the bottom of the 8 in the above illustration should be done in a clockwise rotation? I didn't read the mentioned article though I am sure it is fabulous, so I don't know what was said in it.
Oh well, no worse than Sworall, who essentially says, "sometimes they feel like a bite, sometimes they don't", which I feel he stole from a TV Almond Joy commercial, and extended it with several scientific sounding words, stolen from B. F. Skinner.
"JLongitis strikes deep, and into your heart it may seep, it starts when you're always afraid............."""  |
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| sworrall - 8/24/2007 1:28 PM
Look at the reality of the situation from what a muskie sees, feels, etc, taking out anthropomorphism:.."
That's no fun
As for the figure 8:
On your outdside turns, the bait is higher up in the water because you're at the end of your reach -- taking the lure out as wide as you can brings it up to the surface automatically. Conversely, as you bring your bait towards the boat, pulling your arms closer to your body, you pull the bait (and the rod tip) down into the water column.
Also, as you reach out, taking the lure away from the boat, you are also slowing down because you're almost at the end of your reach. You HAVE to slow down. When you come back torards the boat, then you can speed up. It's all a function of geometry, your center of gravity, strentgh, and the fact that your arms and your rod are of a fixed length.
If you tried to do a figure 8 "backwards" you couldn't. You'd fall out of the boat.
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Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | I HATED that line of study, Jay, but the college people made me do it. B.F. Skinner was just one of the incredibly boring subjects, and I'm happy to be able to use that arduous but relatively harmless portion of my education for SOMETHING, anywho...
Really, alot of what I'm saying comes from studying stuff written by folks like Sosin and Clark, and talking with fish people. Not people who LOOK like fish, people who spend too much time thinking about them and writing papers and stuff. |
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