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Posts: 1996
Location: Pelican Lake/Three Lakes Chain | I am sure Steve noticed this, as would most any guide that looked at this thread. There was a very noticeable number of people that stated that they would be very displeased if the guide they booked did this to them. Automatic answer...a guide can not do it then.
A huge portion of guide business comes from word of mouth and unfortunately good words don't spread nearly as fast as bad words. All it takes is a few disappointed clients voicing their disapproval of policies or service to wreck several prospective clients idea of your business. It may work in the shipping industry, but it aint gonna cut it in the guide business.
I raised my rates going into this year, number one reason was gas prices. It may cost me a few trips through the course of the year, but these people knew up front what the rate would be. I would rather have them not book me because of price than speak poorly of me because of a suprise charge that came up after the booking. |
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Location: Athens, Ohio | Norm, it stretches my imagination to think that anyone could speak badly of you and your guiding service! m |
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Posts: 260
Location: Kentucky | I don't guide, but I play one on TV. I checked with my local Honda dealer to see at what RMP's my 225 runs most fuel effecient. I never run higher than that.
Good Luck Steve-
Bret |
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| According to the newest Kiplinger Letter the gas price run up is because of mishaps at refineries in the US and Europe. It says the price increase should "lose steam quickly" and that 2007 prices will average 15 cents less a gallon than last year. |
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| OM - 5/4/2007 10:04 AM
According to the newest Kiplinger Letter the gas price run up is because of mishaps at refineries in the US and Europe. It says the price increase should "lose steam quickly" and that 2007 prices will average 15 cents less a gallon than last year.
Kiplinger Letter, top-notch information source. Short and to the point.
Although I am biased, my uncle wrote that letter at one time. He has since retired. |
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| I just read an article online from the AP that said gas prices will likely remain high thru summer....so I guess it depends on who you listen to...
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| If I have already hired a guide I would expect to pay only the price quoted at the time of the trip. If the guide called me before the trip (a couple of weeks not days) and said there was going to be a surge charge and gave me the choice of paying or canceling the trip I would not heistate to pay the surge charge at all. If he doesn't tell me untill I show up for the trip or time to pay him then I would be unhappy. I just want the information up front so I can decide on what I want to do just like any other transaction. |
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| The fuel surcharges companies are getting charged fluctuate daily. The base rate for the haul is $x,xxx.00. Then, the surcharge, will fluctuate between 3-25%...almost daily!
it may fluctuate wildly, but it's a known and expected part of the business. the drivers and companies both know ahead of time that there will be a variable fuel surcharge. imho, the key is knowing ahead of time.
i had an experience with a guide who at the end of the day asked for $150 more than we'd agreed when the trip was booked. needless to say i was a bit miffed by his gall. i paid him the previously agreed price, a very nominal tip, and have not rebooked him; in fact i've advised others against hiring him. this speaks to Norm's point about the importance of reputation/word-of-mouth. i'm cool if it's up front and above board, just don't surprise me because that feels shady.
I think if any guide were to just tell his clients, via e-mail, phone call, etc., that if prices jump up very high, there might be a fuel surcharge.
if someone were thinking of going with a surcharge at this point, i think your suggestion is a very good one - no surprises at the landing this way and the client has the option of canceling the trip now and getting their deposit back.
my guess is that most clients approached in this way would understand and be willing to pay the extra $20 (or whatever) it would take to keep the trip.
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Location: Athens, Ohio | Yeah, Mike, that happened to us at the last Sabaskong Bay outing: we were told on the last night when we were settling up the lodging bill that there would be a "warfage" charge of $10/day for use of electricity at the boat dock. Never a mention of it before then. Some paid it, some didn't, some vowed not to return. Moral: last minute financial surprises are usually bad for business. m |
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Posts: 214
Location: Central Iowa | I had a last minute financial situation up in Canada one year that didn't go over too well. We were on Wabigoon staying at a place that I won't mention and we had 3 rental boats...well every night the owner went down and supposedly checked our props and decided they needed to be replaced without us knowing he was doing this. So at the end of the week when we went to "settle up" we had like 6 or 8 rebuilt props on our bill for $40 a pop or something. Not much you can do at that point since its pretty much your word against his. All it accomplished really was leaving a bad taste in our mouths and I doubt anyone from that group will ever go there again. His lose I guess. |
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Posts: 110
Location: Albertville, Minnesota | Jonesi, you made your decision and may your client outings bring multiple fish days, PB's for clients, and overall informative/good time fishing so that the tips double to help out on the gas. Carma (or Karma) mo fo.
Only a month away.
Chris |
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| If I showed up in the morning and the guide told me there would be a surcharge because of gas prices, I would not be happy. I would still go fishing but the tip would be adjusted accordingly. Whether I would ever fish with that guide again would depend on how I evaluated him and if hiring him was a good deal.
Tell me up front that the price is $ per day plus fuel and I will understand that with no problem.
A fifty would be nifty. |
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Posts: 2089
| Serp, You Rock!!! See at the Red Door this Summer! Steve |
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Posts: 311
| You tell em Steve, your "I will do anything to make my clients happy" attitude is why we have a date in Sept. (also b-cuz you seem to catch BIG fish) but I have no problem with the gas surcharge if you put me on a BIG girl........lol........ |
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| Steve
I would probably call all the booked clients and tell them you are adding a surcharge for eleveted gas prices this season. I would then tell them since they were already booked, they would not be required to pay it, but all add-on days or any furthur bookings will be subject to the surcharge. If I were one with a date already booked, I would pay the surcharge, but I know some will not. This way, the ones that do ante up will help with the fuel bill.
For next year, I would raise your rates, or advertise a 5 or 10% surcharge is possible due to high gas prices.
Howard |
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Posts: 65
Location: De Pere Wisconsin | I think musky guides don't charge ENOUGH to begin with. I can go out with a guide for 295-350 dollars. In their 30++++ thousand dollar boat etc. Using expensive baits etc, etc. Look at fly-fishing, my best friend owns and operates a very successful guide business and they get 350 dollars a day WADING, and 395 in a drift boat. Drift boats cost 5-7k and have no motors! The musky guides could get way more. I think you guides out there are simply too timid on your pricing. Raise your rates, you are worth it.
Also, think if 1/4 of your clients bail, but you are getting the same amount of dollars....same dollars but less gas used , less wear and tear on equiptment and so on. You guys need to run your guide business like a business, if expenses rise you HAVE to account for it. Also, I don't think it would be the worst thing in the world for a guide to being higher priced than his competitors if the guide is a "name" guide or has a reputation for big fish or knowledge of that water, numbers etc. See what the market will bear and go for it.
Good luck! |
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Posts: 303
Location: Valentine, NE USA | Well, if there was more time between now and the opener, I'd say simply send a postcard to all your booked clients, stating the surcharge would be added to the bill, and ask for their understanding.
Since there's less than a month until the opener...I'd have to say yer screwed. Better to eat the added fuel costs now than lose all your future business.
Unless...you can casually bring up the topic of gas prices while you were fishing, make a short conversation out of it, and leave it at that.
Hopefully, you'd have a client in the boat that's smart enough to take a hint, and get a better than average tip to make up for it.
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Posts: 50
Location: Central Wi. | I'd be happy for the chance to fish with Jonesi, gas surcharge or not. |
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Posts: 2089
| Wow, I appreciate the kind words , but I think I've got to chime in again, as I see a potential #$#@ storm could develop. I think it's really cool that this many people have reponded and have an opinion. When I made the initial post, I was discussing gas prices with another agent and he had some of the same insights as many of you.Gas is certainly an issue. I smoke Marlboros. Lots of 'em. If I stop killing myself with the cancer sticks, I run 2!! boats at full throttle all day every day of the open water season. I'm super detailed when it comes to some things. I like being prepared. The word budget has been mentioned a few times. Essential to any business/business plan. Pretty elementary.Now, as you review #'s and do some projections when something comes up( Potential huge gas price increase this Summer+-) and you start crunching the numbers, it's pretty alarming. The purpose of this post was to see what people think. I could have worded my initial post better, because I think I may have led some to believe I was going to do it. Not the case. No complaints from me either. I do it by choice and because at one time I had a few goals. Real goals , on paper. I aslo do it because I kinda get off on making people happy and becoming a permanent part of their memories of the outdoors. I do it because I get to meet and become friends with some really cool people. I do it because I get to LEARN something on the water every day. I hope the good stuff continues on this thread and bring on June!!! Steve |
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Posts: 1430
Location: Eastern Ontario | Gas prices going up is the same as we dealt with the Canadian Dollar the last few years. I actually took the brunt on it for a couple of years and last year I started to change my rates in Canadian dollars as I could not afford to lose 15%. Remember that is 15% of the total incoming but my expenses including lodging and meals stayed the same.
I think you just need to bite the bullet on this one and raise your prices for next year. |
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Posts: 1270
| HEre's a question for those who would want to charge a fuel surcharge: If gas prices go down to $1.50 a gallon do you plan on giving a refund to the clients who already booked with you since you will not be paying as much for gas?
You made a contract with these clients I feel that you should uphold your part of the deal. On new clients I would raise your price. |
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| My thoughts are Steve that if you allready have the trips booked, it would be unfair to raise the price because the dates are set in stone and who really wants to hear that their guide trip is going to be more expensive. You have to realize that it's going to cost your clients even more money just to hook up with you. Now if you are still booking new clients for the year absolutely add that $25 on to there, they should be happy just to get a trip w/you. But you should not change the rates for your booked customers for 07. Just hope that good tip's make up for it or do less traveling.
My partner and I are taking a guide out for the 3rd time with him,same guide same place in the norhwest angle of Lotw and what he charges is his minimum rate plus his gas run. So it is not a cheap day on the water but something that is so well worth it! So my thoughts are you should raise the rates for the clients who are signing up for the remainder of the season.
Mr Musky |
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Posts: 551
Location: Columbus, Georgia | Steve,
I am not a guide, but am a businessman.
I'd say that for those that you have already booked; raising your fee would be a dangerous game. You could stand to lose a few of those clients next year.
However, raising your fee for future bookings is (at least modestly and absorbing at least 50% of the increased price in gas) is something your clients should understand.
I would assume that many of them drive from out-of-state to fish with you Steve, and having some so, they are already aware of the pinch to their own wallets over the gas increases (so they SHOULD understand)
I am driving from Kentucky to Lake Of The Woods this August (pulling my rig), and fully expect that the gas increase between getting there and actual gas for a 115HP Optimax should increase the costs for the week by at least $300 to $350.
I would understand if you raised your fees. This is not something that you can control.
Craig
Edited by cjrich 5/6/2007 7:10 AM
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Posts: 2691
Location: Pewaukee, Wisconsin | Very good points by everyone. I would believe most if not almost all clients would be happy to slip an extra $20 on top of the tip to pay for the extra gas burned. It's a big pond you guide on and if your all over it doing your job your clients should take care of you.
One thing you can bring up to them while fishing is the cost of gas and time on the water. If you want to keep the cost down, drive at a slower speed. This will save cash but take away from their fishing time. If they don't mind helping kick in a few bucks, then hammer down and get in more casts. |
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| Mike makes a good point, talk to your clients about gas and what they want to do. Bottom line fishing big ponds like in Mill lacs, V is alot different than a 3000 acre lake. Heck you can burn $70-100 in gass in a day. Not counting tow vehicle gas. Conditions come up where you know the fish are going on a certain spot, and it is 20 mile run, if the guide is eating gas cost loss. Are they going to make that run? and if so I would be running a 4000 rpm, saving gas, burning fishing time. It is a business and need to be run like a business. Yes you want to get the client on big fish but everytime you take a chance, and watch $20 bills fly out the boat trying make things happen, guides will probably take less chances.
Steve
I would pay gas surcharge, at Herbies it has been a day rate, plus gas burned? Pretty fair I think, Paying for knowledge, and he is coverying his cost. Here in MN I would be running something like $250-300 a day, plus gas.
Good luck
Troyz |
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Posts: 221
Location: ohio | well,
if I booked a trip and was contacted asking for a $20 surcharge a day for gas i really wouldnt complain,if I already paid $250-$300 for the trip i sure would not cancel it for an extra $20.00 |
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Posts: 906
Location: Warroad, Mn | Most of the guides that I know of on the LOTWs in the Angle area charge a daily rate, plus gas/oil. This is true for both muskie guides and walleye guides.
We've done this for years, mainly because it's very hard to come up with a reliable
guess at how much gas you are going to use given the size of the lake and how far you need to go at different times of the year. It also changes if we are trolling or casting. If we tried to guess our gas costs, I would guess we would be on the high side, and guide costs would probably be higher than what they are now. It may be a little uncertain to the client how much a guide day is going to cost, but I'll bet it will be the cheapest in the long run. I also don't want to feel that I can't show a client his best chance at a fish because it's too far away!
I try and keep my daily charge as low as possible, knowing that the gas bill can be high.
With the current changing gas prices, I can't think of any other way to do it on the LOTWs. I always give the client some sort of guess as to the number of gallons of gas we'll use, but tell them that this is just a guess and it could vary by quite a bit. Wind velocity and direction, plus load, plus number of stops, all change my MPG.
Doug Johnson
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