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Posts: 79
Location: S.E. Wisconsin | Just wondering what your process is when your about to go into the eight? Do you disengage the reel and thumb the spool or do you trust your drag? I have tried it both ways and am pretty smooth either way, still have not had a strike on an eight but made the "rounds" with a couple fish.Im also wondering what depth changes seem to work and any spots where different fish has snapped at the same turn or change? Thanks for the insight!!!!! |
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Posts: 3480
Location: Elk River, Minnesota | I have always left my reel engaged with the drag tight. If one hits, I immediately loosen the drag and pull line out so the fish has some ability to move around. I have yet to see failure with this method (knock on wood, and murphy will probably be ready to go now too) so I will continue to use it.
As far as starting with the 8, I make sure to make a wide turn into the 8...not a sharp L-turn. Then, while in the 8, I plunge the rod down when the rod is close to me, and up high in the water on the outside turns. This gives the bait a depth change as well as the change of direction. Most often, the hits that I have had are on the outside edges of the 8 when the bait is coming toward the surface in the rotation.
Definitely a fun way to catch a fish...nothing like a short line strike you can see...
Steve |
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| This has worked for me, not saying it is the only way to do it.
Also, this scenario is one I use when the fish is relatively "hot". As the bait is approaching the boat it is usually on the upswing...as a change of direction, I usually get down on a knee or lower myself so I can get about half my rod in the drink. This will allow you to make depth changes much easier. I will take the first part of the 8 deeper, and on the tunrs I will bring it up closer to the surface then plunge it back down on the straight part of the 8. When i get to the other side I bring it back up to the surface. Sometimes 'pausin" the bait (especially if the bait is neutrally bouyant) at the apex of the 8 will trigger the fish to eat. Other times speed trips their trigger. I believe adjusting the depth and the speed will be what gets them to react. I have caught fish on the 8 with my rod all the way in the water (up to the reel seat). When your rod is sumbmerged, it does not take much to adjust the depth. Simply cocking your wrists on the turns will bring your bait up and down accordingly without much comotion.
Sorry for all the gramatical mistakes...typing fast at work.
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Posts: 85
| Hulbert's article in the Jan/Feb MH magazine was all about the 8, really a good read, and probably one to read several times over during the season to reinforce "good habits". It broke down the 8 by lure type: what speed, depth, size of the 8, etc.
I keep the spool engaged and trust my equipment, and the longer rods give some more room for error.
Chris
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| CPainter will have an article on the 8 in an upcoming issue of MH! Not to steal your thunder...but, it's a good article...
personally I do not disengage the reel...that is why reels have drag systems....
both ways work though |
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Posts: 2089
| Why do reels have drag systems? For figure 8's. I'm confused. Steve |
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Location: Contrarian Island | you're always confused Steve!  |
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Posts: 1245
Location: Madtown, WI | Thanks BN....glad you liked it.
MH have had it since early winter but needed to spread out the articles since Mikes Fig8 article was in one of the winter issues. Told it will be in the AUG/Sept issue (July 15 release I think).
It will have a different perspective than Mikes article and hopefully gets you to look at Figure 8's in a different light...
Cory
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Posts: 2089
| Bn,
Thanks man, needed a laugh today.For that matter, I need to laugh every day. Steve |
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Posts: 13688
Location: minocqua, wi. | laughing at brad comes easy ... now seriously ... a question for you boys. i'm a crank-it-down-tight freespooler ... i don't read much, and should. i know there's been discussion on different boat-side techniques given much longer rods (which i'm moving wholesale to) ... with the different equipment, talk me through a drag hook-up with a longer rod vs. a free-spool hook-up with a shorter rod ... why you like the technique, strengths and weaknesses so this old dog might learn a new trick for the season ...
thanks |
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Posts: 1185
Location: Iowa | I had my first 2 fish day last year both on "figure 8's" (I just do a large oval regardless of the size of the fish) and both times I engaged the reel in the L turn...the second fish I used the technique referenced in changing the depth of the lure and the fish absolutely pounded the bait after about 4 turns...I saw my dad "trust" his drag on a legit 52"-54" fish on a figure eight...that was a bad situation from go...the fish hit, the drag froze and he couldn't hit the engage button fast enough and just like that the fish of your dreams is gone...I always engage my reel and use my thumb as the pressure for setting a hook...its probably going to come back and bite me but until then I will stick with it...personal preference is all it is...
Big Perc |
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Location: Contrarian Island | I think the oval is not nearly as good as an 8, mainly for the up and down, and speed up and down you can do better with an 8....fish in my mind will commit more on a properly exectuted 8 than over 9 times out of 10 |
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Posts: 13688
Location: minocqua, wi. | bn ... i'm going to assume that you are counter to some you know well ... maybe donnie and perhaps corey (although i haven't seen the article) ... anyway, the eagle lake trend seems to be the big oval with 9' rods. i'm inclined to agree with you though for the ability to transition speed and depth using an 8 pattern ... and of course continuing to justify my figyur8 vanity plates
any thoughts on the other question on drag and longer rods vs. ..... free-spool with shorter ...
good discussion from you guys ... hope to see more on the subject. where's donnie? would like to see him chime in too
Edited by jonnysled 4/10/2007 2:42 PM
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Posts: 1245
Location: Madtown, WI | I start with the 8 and read the fish....if it keeps loosing the bait THEN I go with the oval to make it easier on the fish to track.
Big fish still can eat in the 8.....just can't twist them into pretzels! 
I am leaning more to lighten up my drag slightly from the crank it down days...especially with the longer rods...they put one heck of a lever into the whole equation....but I still like mine pretty tight.
Donnie has written a few times on this topic as well...I think he calls it "multi-dimensional"....Maybe he will chime in....I have seen his moves in action with the big girls....and he works it well....not bad at fishing either!  (just kidding Todd!)
Cory
Edited by C.Painter 4/10/2007 4:07 PM
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| with the 8'6" and 9' foot rods you can use these days...you can sure do biiiig figure 8's where an oval is not needed imo...still can throw it in for good measure if they don't go on the 8 but for sure start with a good 8 with depth and speed changes
my drag is not cranked down...it is on the lighter side, just enough i can pull it out w/ my hand without tons of pull...seems to work well that way
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Posts: 3864
| Some years up to 25% of my fish are hooked on figure 8's. I'm not the expert like some above, but here are a couple ideas....
I think the drag systems on Abu 5000 and 6000 series reels are weak. Any oil (and maybe water) on the drag washers means the drag system will not work. Get oil in there and the drag will feel way loose. You'll end up tightening the drag wheel until the curved washers () are flattened and the drag is almost totally locked down.
So, I replace the original drag washers with Smooothies and keep them totally free of any lubrication. I loosen the drag on all rods as I leave the lake and the retighten them every time I put the boat in the water. (There is no pressure on the curved washers unless I'm on the water.)
I find that my drag system will allow 1) good hooksets and 2) a figure-8 fish can pull line out of the reel as needed. I never freespool, never thumb the line and I never adjust the drag while fighting a fish. My drag system works better than what I've found on a new Abu reel. Smooothies are key, as is making sure that the washers are never lubricated.
Last idea - I tie my line to a small Bucher Supersplitring that's attached to the swivel. That ring hits the top eye as I go into the 8. The bait is always the right distance from the rod tip, I don't have to watch it (can't see it at night anyway) and the ring will prevent the leader from entering the top eye on the rod. |
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| Ranger, a better idea than the split ring is to use a small glow in the dark rubber or plastic bead on your line for nite fishing...Thornes has them I believe..I got a pack from Jonesi last year but somehow they mysteriously dissapeared so I need to get some more! they work pretty well... |
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| Cory,
Todd here...yep, multi-dimensional is key to success IMHO! The figure OVAL is a great way if you don't have a long enough rod as Brad mentioned! (You've always had a problem with too short of rod, haven't you?...or was that Hanson?...or Eversoll?)
Ranger,
Great idea about changing out the washers. You are so correct in NEVER thumbing the spool! It is a good habit to get into...not thumbing the spool. To each his own of course, but I've driven guys to the hospital when they tried to thumb the spool, and the gorilla's of Eagle Lake took off so quick, and buried the thumb under the thumbar, causing a ripped thumbnil, and stuck thumb! Amazing how a thumb can get so imbedded under a spool, no matter how much whiskey you drink, it is impossible to pull it out without hurting the person your tugging on! (Maybe I should give THE OTHER GUY whiskey....ooopppsss....that's been the problem I think!!)
Overall I'd say my percentage of hook-up is good! As Cory said, reading the fish is key to making the figure 8 work! Watch their fins, thier posture, and HANG ON!
Just my 2 cents worth! Hey, I've missed you all...
Donnie |
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Posts: 79
Location: S.E. Wisconsin | Thanks for all the input from everyone, ive read more than once that reading the fish is important, and while I have you guys thinking, how do you deal with a following fish that just flares his gills and trys to "suck" the lure in, never really giving chase in the 8 but still hanging around to laugh at ya!!!Most case my lures are to buoyant and after this fish has left I never raise them again, Ive tried finesse lures and almost everything else but very rarly ever see that fish the same day???? |
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Posts: 1245
Location: Madtown, WI | If they are following the straight retrieve in and flaring....man....crank up the speed NOW!! Take the bait away from them.....they USUALLY don't like that too much and bite on the first turn of the 8.
Been my experience anyway.
Cory |
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| Waterdemon,
Cory is exactly right! If they are coming at the bait, and the gills are flared, rip it up and to the side FAST! Then take it away from her...you can't move it fast enough...just try...I dare you...LOL! I have caught a number of fish that are exactly like this. I think many of us get this idea that they are uncatchable! But they ARE!! Move it fast, change direction (do as big a figure eight as possible), change speed, (slow on the outside turn, fast on the inside turn), and go deep AT the boat, and come up high AWAY from the boat!!
Just my 2 cents worth!!
Donnie |
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| Donnie is a great figure 8'er and I agree with what he says...over the last few years my fig 8 skills have improved immensely by learning/watching Donnie, Craig E, Lee T, Cpainter, etc...
the thing I don't like about an oval is you HAVE to turn the fish INTO the boat on one end...with an 8, both your outside turns can be away from the boat...keeping the focus of the fish on the lure and not on you/the boat is one key to getting them to eat..unless they are just on a suicide mission of course...
long rods, good drags, set the hook and hold on..
Did anyone see the Fishing Guide show with Travis Richardson and Herbie a few weeks ago.. I would never knock those guys but there figure 8 skills on a few of those fish were...well...not that great...Travis did more of an oval on most fish but from what I remember the ONE fig. 8 he did "right" the fish ate..food for thought |
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Posts: 284
| Why do we do figure 8's and not just big circles? It seems as that some big fish have trouble making the tight turns |
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Posts: 2378
| I learned a bit by watching Jonesi on The Woods last season. He called his shot.
Once they engage the bait, play keep away until you cant anymore. If they want it you cant stop them.
One more thing that has been mentioned. Dont give up right away if they seem to disappear. SJ had one come back and try to eat after being out of sight for at least 20-30 seconds.
Speaking of bad figure 8, ever watch Bob M fig 8? Horrible. |
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Posts: 1937
Location: Black Creek, WI | Wow... some good stuff being shared.
I agree that speed, depth, and direction changes are all good... but they all depend on the fish. "Reading" the fish is essential. Sometimes you gotta play keep way... sometimes you need to give them some foreplay to get them excited and them pause the lure to make them come unglued. The difference... in my opinion is what kind of lure you are using. If you are using a "chase bait" like a bucktail, spinnerbait, or prop style topwater... then playing keep away is a better choice.... in my opinion. But, if you are using cranks, jerks, or plastic.... then the "foreplay and pause" tactic seems to produce better.
And... as for the oval vs. eight debate. Well... I feel the 8 has an advantage becuase it puts the strike-points in the perfect location for an optimal hookset (outside corner of each end of the 8). |
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Posts: 216
Location: Belleville, WI | BALDY - 4/11/2007 2:16 PM
Speaking of bad figure 8, ever watch Bob M fig 8? Horrible.
He figure 8's? I thought he just pulled his baits out of the water . . . |
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| I think I can honestly say this....I boat probably 50+% of the fish I catch in the figure 8...and yes, it is an EIGHT! The fish we are catching on Eagle aren't tiny by any means, so the thought that a big fish can't make the turns is somewhat false, but can make a difference if you aren't turning the 8's big enough! I think circles/ovals have their place...for those who don't have the big rod necessary to turn the fish. But I feel the double amount of turns, your chances are twice as good at getting a fish to eat.
READING a fish is HUGE! I have had some fish that came in so slow and low, but with some precision, fast movements, in exactly the right spot, they became EATERS! Experience is the only teacher of this, as most of you who have caught fish in a figure 8 can attest to.
Brad has become an excellent figure 8er over the years. The idea of multi-dimensional made the difference for him I believe. Realizing the speed, depth, and direction changes made a huge difference!
Jusy my 2 cents worth!
Donnie |
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I agree with Jlong on this one. I think it really depends on the attitude of the fish. I also think what you do is somewhat dictated by what you've already done as well. For instance I prefer eights over ovals but sometimes I end up doing an oval on the first pass if I am out of position to do the eight. You can watch this situation unfold on a recent show I filmed last season.
http://www.gandermountain.com/about/tvshow.asp#
Click on We Live Outdoors TV show icon. Click the "The Muskie Myth" episode.
The fish behind my bait was pushing water. I really should have got down early on in the follow but was banking on the idea that the fish was going to eat before it got to the boat or at the boatside direction change. That didn't work out and I was kind of stuck.
I think bending down is very necessary to get the a nice large figure-8, but the timing of when you decide to bend down can be crucial. I like to get down early if possible, if not I think waiting until the fish is rounding the turn away from the boat is better than trying to hit the deck when they are facing you and at your feet. (How many times have you had a fish bail out when you make a move at that time?) As I have said in the past, some muskie camouflage can also help your chances on whether or not the fish detects your movement.
Anyway, in the video I waited until the fish was rounding the turn away from the boat which kind of put me out of position to an eight the way I wanted to, so I just kept taking it around the loop and things worked out. If I would have bent down a couple seconds earlier or done an awkward eight on the first pass, I may not have caught the fish. Or would I?
I should also I add that I do not show the proper way to deal with a muskie at boatside after you hooked it. I leaned on it hard and kept it on the surface because the camera was rolling on it and it makes for good television. I guess I will use that as my excuse for being possessed by John Gallespie as well:)
Adam's figure eight fish in the same episode is a good example of what should be done in my opinion. (Once hooked up, keep your tip low, keep the fishes head under the water, once the fish is away from the motors and obstacles, let the fish back off using free spool if it wants to.)
I have a lot of opinions on this stuff but have already covered most of them in my three part series Closing the Deal in The Next Bite - Esox Angler magazine as well as a video segment on The Lindner's Angling Edge and/or The Golden Age of Muskie Fishing. So I will spare you the five page post (getting long already).
Peace.
Josh Borovsky
http://www.promuskieguide.com
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