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lambeau |
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if C&R is your bag here is one to keep you busy for awhile, yep 1% with artificial baits, look at the key mortality factors http://www.acuteangling.com/Reference/C&RMortality.html a good article, encouraging responsible fishing and handling techniques. everything i've read is that esocids are more vulnernable to delayed mortality than many other fresh water fishes. ie., more akin to freshwater trout than to the saltwater tautog. largemouth bass are known to be resilient but performed the worst of any fish in the study you listed. it'd be interesting to have a study like this done with muskellunge. we know most fish survive release, but how many actually don't? curious. | |||
| Scott Webster |
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Posts: 82 Location: Owatonna,MN | For some reason I can't open the thread that you posted. any way delayed mortality I would think would be next to impossible to track. To say 10% or what ever would be a guess at best. Speared muskies also. But if you open a small lake to spearing (French Lake that has been mentioned is only 816 acres) 10% would be huge. Heck 1% would be huge.The problem I have with lakes like French (which is a stocked lake that LOTS of people disagree with) will have some revenge type speared Muskies.There are people out there licking there chops to get a chance to spear a musky. Yes I know that, but no I can't prove it. And like Mr. Kimm said in one of his posts, the sad part is how the spearing ban was lifted on French. If it can happen there it can happen anywhere. If the delayed mortality rate for any body of water from angling was 10% ( which nobody really knows) why allow spearing and bounce that up to 20-30% or whatever the number would be. Is it a coincidence that the best trophy PIKE lakes in the state are also the same lakes that have the spearing ban? I don't know, but have my opinions. You decide. | ||
| Scott Webster |
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Posts: 82 Location: Owatonna,MN | One more thing. I am not very good at analogies, but this would best describe my views on lifting the ban as it pertains to the 27 designated musky lakes. You and the wife are going out for the evening and leaving the 16 year old at home alone. Would you leave him/her the keys to the liquor cabinet? I wouldn't!!! | ||
| VMS |
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Posts: 3480 Location: Elk River, Minnesota | O.K... Everyone has made their argument about this issue. Now...where do we go from here with it? (My type A personality is making it's presence here) As bluntly as we can make it, what steps do we need to take as a UNIFIED GROUP to either stop the back door legislation and/or work toward protection of all lakes with populations of muskie in them? I am still not convinced that the problem is as big as some may make it out to be, but if I can step up and make an argument with SOLID, UNMANIPULATED Data that there is indeed a substantial spearing problem I will do so. I do think Lambeau, Sworrall and others have pointed out that emotions MUST stay in check with the issue, and we cannot ASSUME intent from the other side, unless that intent can somehow be documented and stated as FACT. Thoughts? Steve | ||
| Guest |
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| The DNR Roundtable discussions are in progress now. Rob, Shawn Kellet(TC Chapterof MI) and John Underhill(Southern Mn. Chapter of MI)are there. Others too but they are the ones I know of. The Minnesota MI Chapters organization is also working on protecting designation. It is slowly getting organizied hopefully. We'll just have to stay tuned | |||
| Muskiefool |
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| I'm compiling a list of names and e-mail addys I'll post for you to send in support of muskie stocking with the approval of the DNR, and to protect the Designated Lakes, if you support anti stocking anti Muskie sentiments don't bother they already have enough political support, I'll get up the info asap. Thank You | |||
| Guest |
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Muskiefool - 2/6/2007 4:18 PM I'm compiling a list of names and e-mail addys I'll post for you to send in support of muskie stocking with the approval of the DNR, and to protect the Designated Lakes, if you support anti stocking anti Muskie sentiments don't bother they already have enough political support, I'll get up the info asap. Thank You Meaning Steve Woral and Lambeau need not apply! Safe in your small internet world you are!! | |||
| MuskyHopeful |
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Posts: 2865 Location: Brookfield, WI | I followed this and the other thread with interest, learning things as I went. I find it interesting that some posters are willing to take their shots at those willing to participate in discussions on this board, considering that the same article about spearing and the DHA was posted by Muskyfool on the Fix and 101 boards and received a total of two replies. Apparently no expressed interest and no discussion at all is better than a rational 86 post discussion that gets information and varying viewpoints in front of a great number of musky anglers. Kevin Edited by MuskyHopeful 2/6/2007 9:53 PM | ||
| lambeau |
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Meaning Steve Worall and Lambeau need not apply! Safe in your small internet world you are!! wow. outstanding contribution, "guest". as shown below all my posts, my name is Michael Winther and you're welcome to write me privately by email at [email protected] if you're too afraid to list your name in public on posts like that. or i could just look up your IP address. whichever. luckily, more reasonable people who understand the reality of the situation like Shawn Kellett are leading the muskie side of things (along with Rob Kimm and Muskiefool) at the esox round tables in MN. quoting from Shawn's posts on a different website discussion of this issue: We're not asking "permission" from the spearers when we're looking interesting...give a little to get a lot? at expanding the range. We're not picking fights with them either. They've got more political connections and WAY more time on their hands then we do so why should be go around hitting wasps nest with sticks? Do some muskies get harpooned? Probably, but if we can't get muskies in the lake to get harpooned in the first place where are we? We also had a couple hours of discussion with the spearers and Pike Inc after work _with_ some of the other stakeholders??? hmmm. they presented it. They're starting to figure out that Kirk is full of B.S. quoting John Underhill (Muskiefool) in one of his less "fiery" moments from the same discussion: having met all of these guys I can say this they are very intelligent and very reasonable discourse with reasonable people? great idea. likable guys with a passion for their sport and a drive to do what they feel is right, the problem I have is their deceit, all the guys on the Esox fishing side of these discussions are very truthful and forthright with all their intentions unlike Mr. Guest, i'm glad that the people participating in shaping the future of resource uses are able to look for the positive traits in those whom we all have to work _with_ and make use of it to further the muskie side of the involved issues. Edited by lambeau 2/6/2007 10:04 PM | |||
| sworrall |
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Posts: 32885 Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | Lambeau, Guest is from Minnesota, so his motivation for a comment like that is questionable at best. Hopeful said it well, we are trying to keep the discussion OFF vitriol an ON target addressing the actual issues, not a bunch of angry noise. That's my job here, and if anyone has a problem with it, they can always post to where there IS no discussion. I have personally done all I can to support Treats and his allies in their efforts to date, and will continue in the future. I'm currently collecting data and information, and will be writing a piece that will cover the entire spectrum of this issue. I'll also offer a couple MuskieFIRST radio interviews, and will be offering the opportunity to interview to both sides of the issue and the MNDNR. I also intend to find out who ran the bill through the Legislature, and interview that person as well. Any bets on me getting that one? Not sure why some folks have decided to take me to task, but off the cuff meaningless taunts are a dime a dozen. Why is it anonymous internet snipers can't seem to EVER spell my name correctly? | ||
| Muskiefool |
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| Here they are this is the Majority and Minority Leadership of both house and senate defiantly do the leaders and theire asst: both Majority and Minority we'll do the Governor next week if we can pick 2 or 3 a day for the next week or two and just tell them we support the DNR and their decisions on stocking Muskie and the protection of the designated lakes. I know it's a pile of names and you have to cut and paste the emails but this is very important this is the future of muskiefishing in MN like it or not we need to be heard even if your from out of stste and fish here your licence fees give you a voice in my opinion SENATE 59 DFL Pogemiller, Lawrence J. 235 Capitol LINK http://www.senate.leg.state.mn.us/members/member_emailform.php?mem_... (651) 296-7809 Use Mail Form Assistant Majority Leader 15 DFL Clark, Tarryl L. 208 Capitol LINK http://www.senate.leg.state.mn.us/members/member_emailform.php?mem_... (651) 296-6455 Use Mail Form Majority Whip 44 DFL Latz, Ron 306 Capitol (651) 297-8065 [email protected] 56 DFL Saltzman, Kathy L. 306 Capitol (651) 296-4166 [email protected] 03 DFL Saxhaug, Tom 124 Capitol (651) 296-4136 [email protected] 23 DFL Sheran, Kathy G-24 Capitol (651) 296-6153 [email protected] 10 DFL Skogen, Dan 303 Capitol (651) 296-5655 [email protected] 62 DFL Torres Ray, Patricia 124 Capitol (651) 296-4274 [email protected] President of the Senate 39 DFL Metzen, James P. 322 Capitol (651) 296-4370 [email protected] President Pro Tem 21 R Frederickson, Dennis R. 139 State Office Bldg. (651) 296-8138 [email protected] Minority Leader 29 R Senjem, David H. 147 State Office Bldg. (651) 296-3903 [email protected] Deputy Minority Leader 16 R Wergin, Betsy L. 145 State Office Bldg. (651) 296-8075 [email protected] Assistant Minority Leader 14 R Fischbach, Michelle L. 153 State Office Bldg. (651) 296-2084 [email protected] 42 R Hann, David W. 127 State Office Bldg. (651) 296-1749 LINK http://www.senate.leg.state.mn.us/members/member_emailform.php?mem_... 41 R Michel, Geoff 133 State Office Bldg. (651) 296-6238 [email protected] 34 R Ortman, Julianne E. 125 State Office Bldg. (651) 296-4837 [email protected] 24 R Rosen, Julie A. 109 State Office Bldg. (651) 296-5713 [email protected] HOUSE Speaker of the House Margaret Anderson Kelliher from district 60A 463 296-0171 [email protected] Majority Leader Anthony "Tony" Sertich from district 05B 459 296-0172 [email protected] Assistant Majority Leader Melissa Hortman from district 47B 377 296-4280 [email protected] Assistant Majority Leader Tina Liebling from district 30A 393 296-0573 [email protected] Assistant Majority Leader Frank Moe from district 04A 369 296-5516 [email protected] Assistant Majority Leader Michael V. Nelson from district 46A 569 296-3751 [email protected] Assistant Majority Leader Aaron Peterson from district 20A 451 296-4228 [email protected] Assistant Majority Leader Steve Simon from district 44A 375 296-9889 [email protected] Minority Leader Marty Seifert from district 21A 267 296-5374 [email protected] Deputy Minority Leader Tom Emmer from district 19B 261 296-4336 [email protected] Assistant Minority Leader Laura Brod from district 25A 321 296-4229 [email protected] Assistant Minority Leader Brad Finstad from district 21B 251 296-9303 [email protected] Assistant Minority Leader Dean Simpson from district 10B 295 296-4293 [email protected] Assistant Minority Leader Kurt Zellers from district 32B 315 296-5502 [email protected] Minority Whip Denny McNamara from district 57B 271 296-3135 [email protected] Assistant Minority Whip Michael Beard from district 35A 207 296-8872 [email protected] Assistant Minority Whip Tony Cornish from district 24B 281 296-4240 [email protected] Assistant Minority Whip Matt Dean from district 52B 327 296-3018 [email protected] Assistant Minority Whip Joyce Peppin from district 32A 331 296-7806 [email protected] Assistant Minority Whip Neil W. Peterson from district 41B 213 296-7803 [email protected] | |||
| Muskiefool |
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| You don't need to look Steve this is the one that ran it through and I'm sure she will be the tool of choice next time too Assistant Minority Leader Laura Brod from district 25A 321 296-4229 [email protected] | |||
| sworrall |
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Posts: 32885 Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | Thanks, sir! | ||
| Guest |
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| That above "Guest" shot wasn't me. Steve Voigt Editors Note: Steve, Yes, we know that. We can see the IP addresses of every post. That one WAS from MN, but certainly wasn't you, your IP has been the same every time you post. No worries. | |||
| CowgirlAddict |
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Location: Minnesota | sworrall - 2/6/2007 10:54 PM Guest is from Minnesota, so his motivation for a comment like that is questionable at best. Now that is just ridiculous. | ||
| sworrall |
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Posts: 32885 Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | Is it? We are trying to get information out to the public about this issue by providing a good discussion, and this fellow chooses to attack the folks digging for the facts with a rude statement. Why? He/She is obviously from Minnesota. He/She posted this to a Muskie research board. What's the motivation?? I'd say it's questionable, at best. Any problems with that? | ||
| Guest |
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| Although we have clashed heads numerous times on certain topics, and will probably again, I personally appreciate any help in this situtaion greatly. As I pointed out on a previous post, I also appreciate your repeated warnings about protecting the peaking Muskie fishery in Mn. on this site. Why do I mention this? I mention this because individuals who have been at this sport for a number of years like you and I have a perspective that many now do not have. We have seen newly discovered waters and peaking waters literally overrun and overwhelmed not just once but repeatedly. It is a perspective that many that now fish for Muskie don''t have. I don't know how many times I have read on boards that Mn. is producing huge fish, why raise the minimums, whatever the DNR is doing is working fine. That lack of perspective is very dangerous and you have pointed that out a number of times. Thank you Personally I didn't think it was good timing to begin a push for new waters in Mn. I thought getting the minimums raised at this time would accomplish more for Mn. Muskies with the limited time people continually say they have to donate to the effort. As it has turned out the minimums have been raised at least to 48" in many important waters and even total C&R on the Mississippi (something I didn't think I'd see in my lifetime) but the push for new waters has created some strange bedfellows in Northerns Inc. and the MDAA. Pushing for new waters now may well cost us future designation and the fight for current designation might well have already begun. I just wish I was a little younger and more healthy to help in this fight. Again your help is appreciated by any clear thinking person. BTW You may not know it but at least among my partners and I here in Mn.,and more I'm sure, raised our glasses when the minimums were raised on Pelican. A huge accomplishment. Wisc. Muskie anglers should be very proud of that achievement. Steve Voigt | |||
| Muskie Treats |
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Posts: 2384 Location: On the X that marks the mucky spot | I can't believe I've stayed out of this for this long. One VERY positive thing that's come out of this is that the DNR has been forced to 1. get their act together and be better organized when adding additional bodies of water and 2. create a short-term and long-term muskie management strategy. In the past it's been just a hodge podge approach when it came to adding new waters with local area managers holding all the cards. Now we're going to have a long-term vision of what we want to see in the future. It's going to take more work up front. At the same time, maybe we can fight the battles up front instead of each time we want to add a new lake. Time will tell. | ||
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