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| I'm curious what others think is a better way to connect with a TROPHY musky. Jim Saric once wrote an article in Musky Hunter about hitting lakes with lower densities of muskies but higher probablility for a HUGE fish. So, if that is the case, is it better to stick to a "well-known" trophy producing body of water and wait for statistics to fall in your favor.....or can doing your own research and find yourself a "sleeper" lake be just as productive? I think there are many "sleepers" out there remaining to be discovered (even in Wisconsin).... they just haven't been proven (or revealed) yet by anglers? I know I have my own Lake X, Y, and Z..... but wondering if I'd do just as well pounding the "popular" trophy lakes.... and dare I think BETTER?
Yes, I'm getting a "better" experience by avoiding the crouds and having that feeling of "unpressured" muskies waiting to see a lure for the first time.... but I just can't shake that feeling that my time may be better rewarded if I fought the crowds on the well-known lakes.
How many of you are pioneering lesser-known lakes rather than sticking to the "Big Names" in search of a monster musky? |
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| It doesnt matter if it is a sleeper or it is a zoo. GIANT MUSKIES PER ACRE IS THE KEY FACTOR. Basically I belive that a giant isnt easier to catch if it has never seen a bait before.
my humble opinion
MUSKY ILLINI
"I'm coming and Hell's coming with me." "HELL'S COMIN WITH ME!!!!" |
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| Jason,
I for one have my own lake X and Y that I fish almost exclusively. Lake Y is only accessible via a small channel from Lake X, so the majoritiy of the boats cannot fish lake Y...to my liking.
Lake Y has a decent amount of fish in it, but also has good potential for large fish as well. I have encountered a couple in my 20 years of fishing it, so I know they are there....but....they relate differently than how I prefer to fish (stupid of me), given the limited time I have.
I look at lakes Like Leech and think...Hey...now here is a huge body of water that gets hit really hard from the get-go...but boy is there alot of water that DOESN'T get fished...I truly believe that even in pressured waters with high densities of both big and small fish, you can put odds in your favor by fishing (as Bruce Shumway put it) "the other water"...Get away from the people and do something different. At some point in time, you will find something that works!!
Steve
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| Steve, so what do you think is a better investment of your time..... fishing the "other" water on Leech Lake or your Lake Y?? |
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| Honestly, I would rate them to be about the same. I know my chances of contacting fish in my lake x are good, depending on how I choose to fish, and the amount of time I have. Given a week to fish hard, I'd probably try bigger water with trophy potential, but stay away from the pressure areas.
For trophy potential anywhere, I think I would go toward the other water...no matter what lake I am fishing, be it leech or any other water. If you think about it (assuming you have been to leech lake), look around the main area of the lake, away from walker bay. Plenty of fairly deep structure that is worth while to troll, but nobody is doing it. There HAS to be some sort of pattern that would emerge. It's like an untapped resource on an otherwise high pressure water. This could be used on many waters. Eagle, Lac Seul, LOW, etc. But even smaller 200 acre lakes have "other water".
I do know for a fact on some smaller lakes there are some real hawgs to be caught, but due to the lack of size in the body of water, the likelyhood of many large fish is minimal. I guess you could say I would think along the lines of Big water=big fish. Not sure if I totally answered your question...kinda seemed like I rambled a bit.
Steve |
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| I have a few sleeper lakes in WI that give me a great shot at a trophy. I would rate these lakes only slightly higher than the traditional trophy lakes in WI. Go to MN. though and I have to think I would have a better shot there. I might pick one of my lakes in WI as being close, but.......Can't really tell the why because that might give away the lake. Gotta keep secrets when talking about your sleepers. Really though none of the lakes I fish are a real secret. People just don't fish them much. |
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| My own theory is that when fishing a "well known" trophy lake is that Ill have better success using different techniques that the fish have not seen at all or very often.Ill try to define areas that are overlooked or hard to find. One one these patterns is one ive mentioned in other posts namely small patches of deep sandgrass.DEADLY-and very consistent.Locating "sleeper" lakes is entirely possible even in heavily fished areas like Northern Wis.Never-NEVER beleive fishing map companys,bait stores,the DNR,books or any other outside source concerning the presence of Muskies or the size and number of fish present in a body of water.My absolute best fishing lakes, and they number in the double digits, are supposedly devoid of Muskies according to any source that ive found.True "Honey holes" do exist that you will never see another boat on.Private stocking from years past is probably responsible for much of this,but sometimes they just dont look like Muskie water to people and are passed by.Just an example one small fifty acre lake that is seventy feet deep has shown and produced numerous trophy skis for me over the years.Ive never seen another Muskie fisherman on it. |
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| Jason,
I spent the 70's and 80's traveling Canada looking for the 'magic bullet'. I fished Minaki when one got a T shirt saying 'I survived the Road to Minaki' and Holst Point Lodge was going strong. I fished Sabaskong when Brian Majors was the second best Indian Guide in all of Canada! I fished the Red Lake Road lakes, the Pipestone Chain, Rainy Lake, the LOTW in the Turtle to Ghost bay areas, Whitefish Bay, the English River, Sioux Narrows, Crow, Attikwa, Clay, and MANY others. I tried Kentucky, Tennesee, Iowa, Minnesota, and Illinois, Michigan, Indiana, the Dakotas.
I tried Pelican, Boom, Kentuck, Big, and literally over 200 other Muskie lakes in Wisconsin. One year in the 70's, my brother in law and I fished a new lake every day we could all summer, covering over 90 lakes.
I found my 'home' on Pelican, an Oneida County lake that received very little pressure except from the Suick guys, many now gone( Bob Ortiz, for one). The lake produced several mid thirty pound fish for me, and one 40 pounder, and has given me countless hours of great fishing every year since.
I feel the lake needs to have the forage and base 'chemistry'to produce the big girls I seek. If it does, pressure means very little.
Pelican gets TONS of educated pressure every year, but kicks out big fish for me any way. Most of the anglers there are C&R guys, so no harm done, anyway.
Since this is MF's research board, this is a good place for me to make an observation..some folks have questioned whether I personally have the 'experience'(or have 'paid my dues') to do what I have done here ( co-founding MuskieFIRST), and have in fact pidgeon holed me as 'nothing but a salesman' due to the fact I had to make a living for my family while my kids grew up.(plus I went below the radar because of politics in the Muskie world for awhile) I submit that 34 years searching for 'the one' on hundreds of bodies of water makes me something, indeed...maybe just plain nuts!
Well, I am now the proud Dad of GROWN kids, and have organized my life to allow me to continue my quest. I caught a bonafied 50# plus fish in 1994, and want another, badly. We will see. I have several over 40#, but the magic 50# mark came only one time, and I 'hid' the fish for several years to avoid the inevitable attacks until the craze to disprove any big fish not from Wisconsin had passed. My son, Keith, netted that pig, and to this day insists it was ALOT bigger than I admit. Maybe so, but in the final analysis, who cares, except me, and my son?[:bigsmile:] [:bigsmile:] |
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| So what are you trying to say Steve? All lakes are created equal? But this cannot be so if you include the requirement of "chemistry". I think by you saying that Pelican is a winner despite the intense pressure, that if a lake has a valid reputation for pumping out hawgs, they will continue to do so no matter how much pressure they get. So, is your vote on sticking with the "popular" lakes for the best chance at a 30 pounder?
I won't touch the subject of a 50 pounder... cause that is an entirely different hunt. |
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| Interesting topic. Personally I dont get to excited if I'm not on water that can produce 40lb+ fish. I also have a few smaller lakes that I run to every once in awhile, but I'm not looking for a hawg when I do so. I'm a huge believer in associating big water with big fish. So more often than not, I'm on water no less than about 3000 acres.
I fish Cass a lot. I used to spend a lot of time in Allens Bay, but rarely ever stop there anymore. I've caught a couple 30lb fish there, but I have come to realize awhile ago that the giants are out in the big part.
From my point of view, I would rather fish a large, complex, but proven lake, as opposed to a small lake X. But, I also do my research in finding areas of suspended fish, locating untapped weedbeds, rockpiles, etc. Fish the proven water, but not the community spots....least not til the sun goes down. Later
Dan |
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| Sacket brings up a good point when he says, "Fish the proven water, but not the community spots..."
I have a lot of faith in my small Lake X.... but curious if most people believe Sacket is correct. But, I feel that when sacket says Big lakes = Big fish it is because in all actuality that means a big lake distributes pressure better. So, if a small lake has the right "chemistry" to produce 40 pound class fish but has virtually NO pressure... which is a better choice? A BIG lake with lots of pressure (due to its big fish reputation) or a small lake with "the right stuff" and little pressure? If you are on a big lake but look for "fresh" water... how is that any different?
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| Well I would definitely choose a smaller water if it had the big hawgs in it as opposed to a large water, a lesser amount of water means less hiding areas. But I understand that what you're saying Jason is that you're particular water only has the "chemistry", meaning you believe it can put out the trophies you're after, but you're not yet sure as to how big and how many there might be. And of course this is the hard part of exploring for muskies, finding them.
I fish more proven waters only because they are proven. Going in, I know the capabilities of where I am fishing, even on different areas of just 1 lake. Tactics change as to where you fish, and in lots of cases so does fish size. On a lake the size of Cass, many spots and are overlooked and usually all it takes to find these is to scout on a sunny, calm day. Minimize the guessing, if you can know it, you should learn it. That's the way I fish. It's all in the research.
If I could muskie fish for a living I would explore more, it is fun to try to figure out new lakes, but I dont have the time. Later
Dan |
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| Dan I think you nailed it in your last post.
Given limited time on the water, I feel it pays better to hit the “fresh” water on known trophy lakes. You have eliminated the “are they really in this lake” variable from the equation and can fish with confidence. Which I feel is THEE most important ingredient to success.
On the other hand if you have to time to explore a smaller lake X and confirm the presence of trophies, you can be way ahead of the game. You don’t have competition, the fish have fewer places to hide and the fewer hiding places can be fished harder in a day of fishing.
This is why weekend worriers are saying there are no trophy fish in Northern Wisconsin and guys like 7Islands are saying there are plenty of trophy fish in Northern Wisconsin. The fish are here they just harder to run across, and the guys who have the time to explore have a much better chance at coming across a trophy.
In my situation when I go to Canada, am I better off spending my one week a year on LOTW with its known trophy potential, or running around exploring smaller lakes that may or may not even have Musky. For my vacation money I will take LOTW, and I will take the same area of LOTW every year. If I lived there it would be different.
In Wisconsin my approach is different, but you still don’t want to spread yourself to thin. My goal is to try and explore a couple new lakes every year, but keep the proven bodies of water at the top of the go to list. As the kids get older exploration time will increase.
Nail a Pig!
Mike
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| Mike,
Looking forward to discovering some "fresh" water with you this year. There are plenty of BIG fish in Wisconsin... they just don't hang out at the popular "bars" anymore. Check out non-traditional places to meet that Big Girl such as the library, laundry mat, grocery store, etc. and you will realize that there are some real beauties still available. On the internet we have DougJ to keep us in touch with reality.... when I go fishing I have my good buddy MRoberts to provide the discipline needed to keep a clear head. Thanks guys.
I feel the same way as MIke about LOTW.... but in Wisconsin, I'll mix up my schedule with a little time on "Lake Popular", a little more time "exploring", and the majority of my time on "Lake X". |
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| I wanna keep this particular topic going so I will. Jason, what are you looking for in your Lake X? 30#? 40#? I live in the Bemidji area, so you dont have to worry about me at all hoarding in on ya. What is the definition of fishing pressure to you? I have been on Cass before and not seen another muskie fisherman casting, plently of times. Fishing pressure doesnt mean anything to me unless it's people fishing that might actually be catching something. Is all you're lookin for in your Lake X less fishing pressure, or big fish? Both are good, but I'm curious. Later
Dan |
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| Dan,
Now that I think about it... I guess when I say "pressure" it also includes RECREATIONAL traffic as well. Even though these guys aren't casting muskie plugs, they certainly can make fishing certain areas difficult... or at least not so aesthetically pleasing.
I hate to say it, but sometimes the "holistic" approach is important to me. You know, the peacefulness of the northwoods. Undeveloped shorelines, wildlife, no jet skis, BIG muskies, etc.
I select the lakes I fish for several reasons. I am not 100% trophy oriented... so I have several "favorites" that are typically classified as "action" lakes.... but my Lake X is trophy oriented. Trophy potential for me is potential for 40+ pounds. Even an action lake occasionally will pump out a 30 pounder. Not much difference.... but a difference.
Lastly, in Wisconsin I feel my best chance at a slob is open water basin fishing. Thus, I look for smaller lakes (500 acres or less) with excellent forage and little fishing pressure. In my opinion, that means Northern Wisconsin literally has hundreds of potential Lake X's for those willing to subject themselves to these brutal gin bottles.
It doesn't take many people to congest even the larger lakes in Wisconsin... considering a bigger lake in WI is anything over 1000 acres. A little different when comparing to MN where the lakes can easily exceed 10,000 acres.
So, I guess I prefer to have the lake to myself in WI if searching for a monster. When I go to LOTW during the July 4 holiday, I still feel that pressure is low considering the massive amount of water available. Yes, lots of boats on "popular" spots.... but that when you look for secondary spots or "fresh" water.
I guess I'm guilty of fishing both types of lakes........ |
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| 7Islands,
Just curious as to how you found that that is a musky lake?
Thanks,
MJB |
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| I took my youngest daughter to that lake looking for panfish and coudnt get a blue gill back to the boat in one piece.She was getting upset that "those things" were taking her fish away.A few days later I came back with my row troller and some surface lures.Twelve hours and six muskies later ( none smaller than 43" ) I went home.Because I had guided earlier that day I had fished twenty three hours.Showered,changed boats and headed off to pick up a client at a resort.As I was pulling out of the driveway my wife was yelling that She wanted to go with me that night to hit that little lake again.We did- for another six hours.Three fish between 46"-49.5".My daughter named the lake the Black Lagoon.
There are a variety of ways to discover these hidden gems,but some of my best "black lagoons" have been found by looking for medium size lakes that are stocked with trout!! Nuff said |
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| 7Islands.... TOO MUCH said (no need to mention Trout).
I think everyone should have a "black lagoon" or in my case, Lake X. You can find these lakes through good old trial and error, dig through the DNR data (lots available online), or look for lakes classified as Class C musky water. Many times those lakes given Class C status simply do not have good structure or locations for the DNR to successfully fyke net or boom shock the healthy and abundant musky population residing there. They do not capture many fish... so it gets a class C... or B rating in WI. Often times, those lakes have LOTS of muskies... they just live out deep.
Are these lakes EASIER to fish? Not by a long shot... but they have less pressure which equates to an aesthetically pleasing experience and increases your potential for contacting a truly giant fish. Because these lakes are more difficult to fish, there are more sleeper TROPHY lakes than ACTION lakes.
Now, if I can just put my finger on 7Island's "Black Lagoon"..... |
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| Sworrall,
How long ago did you fish Atikwa? I've been guiding there for the last 6 years. I'm very curious about what you thought about the lake. What the fishing was like then, and where you fished for muskies there. We have done a lot of conservation work on the lake and have really improved the already excellent fishing on the lake since I've been there. Im always interested in learning about what the lake was like many years ago. I do know that the lake has changed alot over the last 20 or so years.
absolut_zero273 |
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| Jlong, I also am looking for what you are. Being a weekend warrior in Wi is tough especially when the perfect fishing days are on Wednesdays, and the weekends are always crappy! I believe you should fish both the proven, and one you think might prove a big fish. To be honest I like to fish Kentuck lake alot. Now this is one lake that continues to increase with boating pressure every year. It's not uncommon to have the boat ramp full all day during the summer, but it still puts out large fish. The one thing to try on these pressured waters is fishing when other people aren't. Night fishing! Of course night fishing is hard when your family wants to do something with you when the sun sets.
Ah yes, the little "black lagoon" lakes. I love em! Granted some of my little black lagoon lakes aren't all that small, but are relatively unknown or very hard to fish. I personally would rather fish a lake known that there are monsters lurking in the abyss and not catching a fish for maybe a few years on it, then fishing the proven lakes. I'm in the phase of getting more of a rush by catching a fish out of a "tough" water knowing that most fisherman don't or can't stand fishing the water. Hence the reason I fish those "suspendos". |
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