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Posts: 212
| I have just started making some wooden crankbaits out of basswood that are similar in shape to the Grandma lures, but I have had some trouble with weighting the blanks. What is the best method to weight a wooden crankbait, and with what? I have experimented a little bit with lead, but have done more scrapping than actual production...  Can you guys lead me in the right direction? Thanks in advance, any help is good help! |
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Posts: 4266
| Having worked with basswodd, I can tell you that might be part of the problem. Basswood is very soft and takes a lot of lead to get it down.
If you are using bass wood, I hope your design is meant to rise quickly on the pause, because trying to keep basswood down will require a lot of lead, and that will inhibit the action.
What have you tried so far?
Beav |
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Posts: 212
| Well, my original plan was to make a 6"-8" wide sided crankbait that would be good for twitchin similar to a Crane... and I had some spare basswood laying around which is why I chose that. I believe Cranes are made from Balsa? I found the point of balance on the lure, and started adding lead to it, but it continues to roll onto it's side because it's soooo buoyant. It's pretty much my first try with adding weight to a wooden bodied crankbait, so I figured I'd drill a hole on the belly where the point of balance was and add weight, but it ended in the same results. I understand that everything needs to be centered, and I need to balance out the buoyancy of the basswood with the lead, but is point of balance the right place for the lead? |
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Posts: 4266
| If center weighting doesn't work, try head and tail weighting.
You need to talk to the crankbait experts. |
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Posts: 212
| Yeah I'll give that a try...that's one thing that kind of scared me about undertaking this project..there seems to be little discussion about crankbait making on this site and on the web in general...are there any other possible locations to find information? Thanks Beav, I appreciate your help |
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| This may help a bit:
http://thebassman.tripod.com/Rap-Info-22.html
and
Number 1, Floating Rapala, 2 sinking Rapala, 3 Rapala Husky Jerk, 4 Rapala Long Cast Minnow, 5 Cabala’s Suspending Minnow (no longer sold and still one of my favorites), 6 BassMaster Suspending (sold by Bass Pro Shops), 7 Bass Pro XPS Suspending, 8 Yo-Zuri, 9 Boomer Long A, 10 Luck Craft Pointer, 11 Lucky Craft Flash Minnow, 12 Smithwick Super Rogue, and 13 Smithwick Signature Rogue.
Edited by The Nate 1/22/2007 9:55 AM
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Posts: 107
Location: Mayer, MN | those are great thanks! |
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| WOW! Those x-rays make you think twice about using smaller jerk baits for muskies. There really isn't much holding the hooks in. Even the through wire doesn't go all the way through. I would prefer to have a muskie lure with a big screw eye and epoxy than one of those. |
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Posts: 212
| Yeah I would have to agree with you! Although I've caught quite a few on X Raps and Husky Jerks, you won't ever feel as confident in your lure unless you know that you can stand up to the big dog himself... Has anyone ever seen any X Rayed images of musky baits? Cranes, Grannies, Slammers, Jakes, any cranks like these? These are more along the lines of what I'm looking for, narrow body, big wide sides...Thanks for the images though, everything helps! |
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| what kind of wood are cranes made out of? Seems really light. |
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| Balsa I believe, as are Big Games. |
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Posts: 388
| Had a similar question on a different thread. The X ray photos really help to visualize where to add the lead, thank you. Is the purpose of the lead strictly contol bouyancy, running depth, and rate of rise when twitched or is a certain amount of lead necessary to make the bait sit correctly in the water and run true? The reason that I ask is that there seems to be a number of floating type baits in the X-rays with no lead in them at all. I nearly completed my first crank bait yesterday and to my dissapointment, after installing the lip and hooks, realized that it did not sit upright in my sink. The info that I had for making a bait did not discuss use of lead to weight the bait. It did mention use of different wood types and impact on action. I used cedar because it is realtively light and also because I used 1 7/8" screw eyes instead of thru-wire construction. What I am trying to duplicate is the action on a Crane or Big Game type bait.
Edited by Pete Yake 1/27/2007 4:48 PM
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| Roll over is caused by the weights being closer to the sides than the bottom. If you drill to deep and get the weight in the middle of the lure you will have that problem. The hooks weight may help correct the problem a little. |
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Posts: 212
| Hey Pete, That's the same problem that I was having when I posted this question a couple weeks ago..since then I have figured out a few very important things that either must be over looked by many people or just something that varies sooo much that it's different for every lure you make. I've been cutting lure bodies similar in shape to a Crane/Grandma type, out of Basswood. I cut the slot for my lip, cut a slot for the through wire, and then seal the bait. Once a few coats of sealant are dry, I tested some different sized trolling sinkers (cigar shaped with loops on each end) by duct taping them to the bottom of the lure. This helps you find the position where you need to add the weight, and the amount of weight needed. You can experiment and see what it does to the blank to have the weight off centered or if the weight is too light. So with a little trial and error you can find the right amount of weight, but you need to make sure that it's centered for your bait to sit perfect in the water. Hope this helps you out a little, there's also alot posted about this at www.tackleunderground.com And some of the baits pictured in the x ray are suspending baits, that use a different weighting method that allows movement of the weight, the majority of which are plastic...
By the way...that's a nice lookin design!
Edited by PamuskEhunt 1/29/2007 8:46 AM
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Posts: 3775
| check out MuskyJo's weighting system, might be exactly what you want. He has a website. |
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Posts: 106
Location: Michigan | You don't happen to have an X-ray of a 10 inch Nils Master?
Thanks LeMayOUT |
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Posts: 155
| I,ve been using 3/16 aluminum for about 3 years now.Cut it out on a band saw just like lexan.Depending on how much weight you want you could go to 1/4 inch.I use the lip chart in the back of Rollie & Helans catalog for templates. |
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| Nope,
No x-ray for a 10" nils master. I tried searching for one as well and couldn't find it. |
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Posts: 388
| This absolutely killed me to do this but my curiosity got the best of me... I have a 9" Big Game the I broke the bill off of this summer trying to bean a cormarant that was perched on as stump. That is a whole different story, but to keep it short I ended up retiring the bait because of the broken lip and decided to hang it on my wall with some pictures of fisht that were caught on it. Anyway, I decided to cannabilize what was left of the bait and split it down the middle to see where the lead is because I really am a big fan of the Big Game crank baits and would like to get close to that kind of action on my own. As you can see, the lead is placed in front of the two hook eyes and is not center weighted. This brings up a whole different set of questions for me because I am just getting into this. What is the difference if you weight the bait at two points vs a single point in the center? Why would you not use a hardwood as opposed to balsa when you are melting that much lead into the bait? What determines the amount of lead to use, how the bait sits in the water or rate of rise? Also, looking at the through wire design, wondering what the advantages might be as opposed to using screw eyes. Does not look like it would be too hard to kerf out a channel for the wire in the wood and lay in the bait. Maybe easier than trying to exactly center the screw eye holes. I apologize for the many questions, just getting my feet wet and enjoying this as a hobby.
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Posts: 106
Location: Michigan | thanks Nate for looking.
LeMay OUT |
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Posts: 1106
Location: Muskegon Michigan | Ha ha ha ha ha . The questions on weighting lures. The answer is they are all different and for different reasons. The 205 crane is tail weighted. why? Beats the crap out of me. They sit tail down in the water and cast like a bullet. Bill weights the rear hook holder and also ties his wire thru together there. On My Deepthreats I weight the forward hook holder on the 12 inch model and the forward hook holder plus another center hole in the tallest part of the lure on my 15 inch model. Holes go in 40 % of the depth. This keeps the weight in the lower part of the bait. Highly bouyant wood like cedar and balsa need (keel weight) to give the lure a bobber effect. If the lure wants to lay on its side with paint,hooks and clear coat all on the lure then you need weight . I place my weight in the tallest part of the lure as this is the most bouyant area of the bait and is the hardest part of the lure to sink. But and this is a big but, weighting a lure off the center line or ahead of or behind the most bouyant part of the lure imparts different actions as with the crane 205. I have not seen any set rule as to how or where weights need to be located . Its seems to me that testing of prototypes with different weights and locations is what gets it done. Bait makers like Bill crane did thier testing 40 years ago one lure at a time until they got the right combinations. It took me a whole year to figure out how to make a cedar lure that didnt require any weight and would run over 5 mph trolled. Hydo Dynamics is a facinating subject and is the science behind all of our lures. Water passes over,under and around our creations imarting actions determined by our designs. My Talonz Little Claw (twitch version) was a mistake . It was an off design with the lip too far forward. The bait would not run. But when I ripped or twitched it this lure did things no other twitch bait will do. Thousands of muskies and pike later we still havnt changed it. Good luck and plan on testing a lot of designs to get the one you want but along the way watch for a mistake that does something you were not expecting. Accidents can be blessings in lure making. Kingfisher |
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Posts: 388
| Thanks Kingfisher. Somehow I suspected that trial and error would be the case but thought I would ask in case I could find some rules of thumb. Untill the lakes open up and I can get some feedback on what I try, all I can do is duplicate what I know works. Once things are thawed, I can experiment more. |
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