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| Message Subject: Circle Hook lesson... | |||
Reef Hawg |
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Posts: 3518 Location: north central wisconsin | I am in need of one. After reading alot of the posts on the 'outlaw kill rig' thread, I see that some people are using circle hooks without throat hooking fish. As I mentioned in my posting there, I tried them about 4 years ago, caught several fish on them, but throat hooked a decent faction of the fish I caught so I quit using them. That said, I got bit almost twice as often with the use of the circle over the quick set, on waters that have seen any amount of live bait fishing pressure. I tried rigging them with rubber bands, through the lip(throat hooked and/or lost the most this way) and bread ties. I tried reeling slow, fast, or even snapping the rod. Tried setting before the swallow or turn(caught some and didn't throat hook any but missed alot of hits). While i use live bait only a fraction of the time I used to use it, I would like to know how the guys that do the circle thing with 100% success at not throat hooking fish, are rigging the suckers, the time they give the fish, and how their hookset(or lack therof) method. I'd also like to know the prefferred hook used. I tried the eagle claws and Gamagatsus in 5-10/O, and could not find one that was better. While I'd still rather use a quick set and not wait, if I knew of a way to employ the use of circles with confidence that I would not harm ANY fish(or not any more than I would with a lure of quick set), I'd try them again. Thanks in advance. Edited by Reef Hawg 9/28/2006 2:20 PM | ||
| release |
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| Reef Hawg Nothing is perfect. My circle hook experience is salt water and not muskie but as long as the fish had taken the live bait and turned away from you to swim or swallow, a simple reeling in of the line so it goes tight pulls the hook back out of however deep it is in the fish and the hook design causes it to turn on its way out of the mouth. It literally slides out of the gullet it you leave it that long but pivits on the jaw because of the pulling it and then is pushed harder into the mouth the harder the line is pulled. It is amazing to see this happen to a marlin infiniely fast on troll or a tarpon in a stopped boat like you do with muskies. but i repeat, nothing is perfect and some fish will manage to get throat hooked, but it should be a low percentage. I look forward to hearing from folks who use them on muskies since it simply does not make any sense that they would not work well with these fish too. Gary | |||
| Reef Hawg |
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Posts: 3518 Location: north central wisconsin | Thanks for the response Gary. While I know what the hook is supposed to do, I just could not get the specifics figured out for Musky fishing, when I have such good luck with them for cats. The only thing I could think of was the way I was rigging the sucker, or maybe that the bait was just too big for the hooks intended use.... | ||
| ToddM |
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Posts: 20231 Location: oswego, il | Jason, the guy to talk to about circle hooks is Chuck Altamore. I have read articles he has written on the subject and he knows his stuff when it comes to them. | ||
| Shep |
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Posts: 5874 | Jason, One of the biggest factors in good hookups is the rubber band must break away from the sucker when you reel up on the fish. If the rubber band is still attached to the sucker when it comes out of the stomach, it may not contact the corner of the mouth, and you'll not get a hook in the fish. I will snip part way through the rubber band if it's too tough to break. While I don't set the hook, I reel up rather quickly, and allow the rod to load up. And I agree, I think you get more action with the circle hooks. Some don't like the waiting after the hit, some do. | ||
| greenduck |
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Posts: 354 | Anyone able to post a pic of your rig with the rubberbands? Thanks in advance. | ||
| Rick HESS |
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| The way I use them is with the rubber band . The fish will 9.9 times hit the bait and make a steaming run towards deeper water then stop. I feel that at this pint he is trying to kill his prey. He then makes another run at the point at which he is starting to eat the prey. There is no time factor here. I have had them do it in less than 5 min and I have had them do it in 15-20 min. At that point you need to position yourself so the fish is running away from you. Point the rod tip straight at the fish and reel as fast as you can. Do not sweep the rod or strike the fish. Some feel your waiting for the fish to ingulf the bait but that is not true. Your simply waiting for him to eat it. I use large suckers when using these rigs. | |||
| muskytopwater |
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Posts: 22 | Reef Hawg, I have extensive experience with circle hooks and can tell you that 9 times out of 10 you will not hurt a musky more than just a corner mouth hook-up. That said, you need to keep in mind that circle hooks on suckers for musky is not a science - you really need to let the fish take the bait sometimes forever - ie 5 minutes or more and you will still not hook up the fish. A single circle hook direct tied to 100lb flourocarbon is really the way to go - the musky will usually have no idea that there is anything wrong with the bait so it will swim with the bait in mouth to drown the bait - sometimes the musky will just hammer the bait and you can just count down 10 - 30 seconds and then come tight. Just remember that you do not slam / set the hook - with circle hooks you come tight with the line and hooks basically slides into position. It is very different than quick strikes or lift off rigs. Wildest thing about circle hooks is that if you miss getting the musky hooked - usually they are not spooked - that means that you leave the freaked out - half dead sucker / bluegill etc in the water for at least 5 - 10 minutes - usually the musky will immediately come back to the fish. Try to pitch out a livier bait but usually the musky will then hammer the bait that is in its death twitch mode. Great Hunting!! | ||
| Reef Hawg |
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Posts: 3518 Location: north central wisconsin | musky topwater, do you use a rubber band? I decided to experiment with them one more time this past weekend, and got a 44" right away, then missed 3 fish, two of them had the sucker and had spit the hook. I was in shallow water., using a bobber and I wonder if the heavy drag from the bobber pulled the hook up and out. If you are getting your bait back on a miss, you must be lip hooking it, not using a rubberband? Lip hooking them is what throat hooked the fish for me. Could someone give me the brand and size hook they use again please? I was using a 10/0 Eagle Claw laserpoint this time. Did get more bites than my partner using quick hits. | ||
| timbuck |
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Posts: 69 Location: Nekoosa, WI | Hello, I'd like to give my 02 cents on the circle hooks. I've only been using them the last 3 years and this is what I've learned. My rig consists of 18 inches of coated 50lb sevenstrand with 2 leader sleeves on each end, one loop with the circle hook attached, and the other connected to a heavy duty ball bearing swivel with 2- 1/2 oz barrel sinkers above the swivel, a big bobber and a slip knot to adjust for depth. Immediately after pickup, keep a little tension on the sucker, it will help you to distinguish what the muskie is doing, i/e eating, running with it, etc. By a little, I mean thumbing the reel in free spool, just enough to give you an idea of what the fish is doing. If she drops it just let it be, 9 times out of 10, she will come back and take it again. Try your best to make sure the fish is facing away from you when you try to hook the fish. I like to come from behind the fish with all the slack taken out of the line, and lift the rod while thumbing the spool until I feel the the sucker move, and then start reeling as fast as possible until I feel more tension on the line. Then, I fight the fish. Sometimes, I react too quickly, thinking the fish is hooked, and the sucker is still sideways in the muskies mouth, then I freespool and start over again. I've had 1 throat hooked fish out of about 30 or so, and I managed to pop the hook with a long linesman pliers, thankfully. One question I have for other circle hookers is: I can't find a 0 degree offset circle hook. I'm using a 3 degree offset. I would love to know where I can pick up some 0 degree offset circle hooks. Let me know what you think. Thanks. Tim | ||
| Reef Hawg |
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Posts: 3518 Location: north central wisconsin | timbuck, do you use a rubberband, or do you hook them through the lip? I am familiar with how to fish with livebait, just need some help with the rigging. Good point on keeping a slightly tight line though. I used to do that more, but have been using a float lately, to get the bait out away from the boat. Maybe they are feeling the float. My issue though, occurs at the onset of reeling the fish in when it is swimming away from me. I often pull the whole sucker back up, or get no hooks and lose the sucker. I tried to snip a bit of the rubber band but must have snipped too much and lost the sucker. I've been using orthadontal bands which are extremely strong. I might be better served switching to a different type. They work great for quicksets(which I use the majority of the time), as one can snap break them. As far as zero offset, couldn't you just bend it slightly so it is true? That is what I have been doing with the Eagle Claws. | ||
| Shep |
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Posts: 5874 | Yup, bend those offset hooks so they are flat. Jason, I used the ortho bands, too. I would just snip the very edge, kinda like breaking the surface tension. I did not try to snip a set amount through. It seemed that just nicking the band was enough. You need the band to break. If it doesn't, and the sucker comes up with the rig, you won't get a good hook up, if at all. Maybe after the GB tourney, I'll come out by the mom-in-law's for a weekend, and we can get out for a day? Edited by Shep 10/6/2006 1:13 PM | ||
| timbuck |
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Posts: 69 Location: Nekoosa, WI | Jason, I don't use rubber band method, I hook them through the upper snout area where the membrane is a little tougher. I then hook a 3/4" square piece of leather from an old shoe down over the barb to hold the sucker on the hook, if you don't do this the hook hole becomes bigger with time and a lively sucker and will result in lost suckers, especially on a pickup. Another thing I didn't make clear before is that I really don't want the musky to swallow the sucker, I just want to feel him kill it and turn it in his mouth to swallow it, that is why I like to tighten up right after pickup. I'm also toying with the idea to hook them in the tail section somewhere. I'm thinking this will help in hookups. I'm using diacchi(sp?) 12/0 circles. I can't bend them by hand. Are you guys using a vice?, or 2 pliers? Thanks for the feedback. Tim. | ||
| Reef Hawg |
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Posts: 3518 Location: north central wisconsin | Thanks men. Shep, you fishing the tourney or what?? Who is the partner? Where are your in-laws located? timbuck, Ok I see. That is a good strategy, not even letting them get it down. I think the one fish I did get last weekend on the circle, never had it down, as the sucker floated up after a bit, though the band was busted(not sure if that means anything or not). I was wondering the same thing about hooking them in the tail. Would probalby work good for people who sit in one spot for a long time. Fishing the river/s requires/incorporates alot of moving and I'd surely drown the sucker. I wonder if one could hook it in the sucker, and still rubberband the snout?? That would add more hardware though, and defeat the purpose of the circle?? Edited by Reef Hawg 10/6/2006 4:20 PM | ||
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