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| With the increasing popularity of tournaments and my desire to fish in them , I'm curious -- What percentage do you guys think it takes to win a tourney -- is it 90-10 luck/skill or 50-50 luck/skill or 10-90 luck/skill My own guess is for a large tourney like the PMTT it's about 75-25 luck vs skill -- Maybe I'm way off base . What do you guys think ? ManitouDan |
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| It really does depend. If you win the tournament its definatley all skill. If someone else does it's definatley luck!  |
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| It is skill for the most part..It usually takes a few fish to win...and skill to constantly finish at the top. If you fish the PMTT for a full year, you get a gauge on it to an extent. You will see people luck into fish from time to time, but the same people are usually near the top. I really recommend a year on the PMTT, it is a true learning experience...forces you to learn lakes, find patterns...really a great experience...that being said I only did it one year...Ben |
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Posts: 8865
| I think for a single tournament it's luck -- anybody can stumble on to a fish, whether its the PMTT championship or a muskies inc club outing.
But to win multiple tournaments on multiple waters in all sorts of conditions takes a lot of skill. To even GET to the champoinship on a trail like the PMTT requres a lot of skill.
And skill... What IS that? To me its an ability to read the water and the current conditions and not only find where the fish are likely to be, but find a pattern that WORKS.
Luck always plays a role, but you can't attribute multiple wins to luck alone.
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| Not to sure but I know one fish last year over 40" got someone into the PMTT championship on Tonka. Not sure I am willing to say one 40" takes a lot of skill in 4 qaulifying tourneys.
I know a heck of a lot of good sticks get skunked every year on Mille Lacs and that the tournament was won last year by guys using bulldawgs in 10-12 feet of water. I bet a ton of guys were doing that very thing.
I would say 50-50. I have personally boated 3 fish in 3 seperate tourneys and only one of those was caught using a tactic that was discoverd prefishing that no one else was using. |
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Posts: 469
Location: Downers Grove, IL | I've learned few things from fishing the IMTT's: Keep your bait in the water, be as efficient as possible, and by all means be confident in what your doing. Whether it's luck or skill it only takes one cast..................or sucker...haha
thedude
Edited by thedude 4/7/2006 6:32 PM
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| Thanks for the opinions -- but please venture a guess on the ratio -- I know it's not exact science but give me your opinion on luck vs skill I'm not meaning to "dis" any tournament winner or top ten finisher -- but before I spend 100's or 1000's of bucks to tourney fish I'd like the opinions of the experts -- meaning users of this board -- I guess lots of guys are away from their computers at the PMTT -- maybe we can keep this thread alive till early next week. I'd like opinions from tourney regulars as well as those who have not fished them. See Ya ManitouDan |
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Posts: 172
| To win takes some luck. To always be in the money is the true test of a good muskie fisherman. If you look over all the years of the PMTT, there is teams that always stand out. And even those teams can have a bad year.
Bob Blanke |
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| bump-- would like some pmtt guys opinions |
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Posts: 7115
Location: Northwest Chicago Burbs | I've been to a few PMTT events, and I've fished a tournament or two, and I can say this, its a combination of everything. Doing the right thing, at the right time, sticking with a pattern, and being where a fish is, doing what he wants you to do to entice him to eat, being ready for that fish to eat......I figure if you get all those things down over time, or on a specific day or over time, you're probably what people consider "lucky".
I think the reason we still think there is "luck" involved in tourney fishing is that we only have 5 PMTT events a year, the results of the WMT, IMTT, and whatever other tourneys results dont get published, and there is no cohesive measure of who is the best, or whatnot fisherman over time. If there were 20 PMTT events (per se) and you had all the same teams fishing them week after week, I truly believe you'd see more of the same teams in the top 10 (you already do, you just have to pay close attention to the results OVER TIME). And if those same guys were fishing the WMT, IMTT, Paul Hartmann's events in Minnesota, I really do think you'd see a group of teams winning more than the rest.
BUT, with so few really well hyped/promoted/etc. pro tourneys (quick, who can name who won the last 4 R&H tourneys, or who was Top Gun for the PMTT in 2003?), and no cohesive record keeping body, we see different names all the time in the winnings, so it APPEARS to be luck.
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Posts: 654
Location: MPLS, MN | I don't fish tournies but my guess is about 50/50 |
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Posts: 68
Location: South side | I have been fishing Tournaments For 6 Years now. And the PMTT For 3 Three years Now. And its more luck then anything. Last PMTT Season 3 Out of 4 Tournaments I caught Fish Prefishing thurs. & Fri. . And Double up 2 Times. had a great pattern. But when tournament time came. I saw a lot of fish but could not get them to bite. Thats just like saying im fishing a point and see nothing 5 mins.after i leave you pull up take 1 cast and catch 40+ inch fish is that luck or Skill. I don't no about you but i Think that is right place right time.Thats Luck
Nick |
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| it has be skill.
steve cady use to to fish the PMTT and never boats any muskies...no skills.
the people who consistanty catch fish in the PMTT have skill. |
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Posts: 3926
| "it has be skill.
steve cady use to to fish the PMTT and never boats any muskies...no skills.
the people who consistanty catch fish in the PMTT have skill."
Hope that's a joke, dude. If not, it's mean, inaccurate and unwelcome to the likes of me. |
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| www,
Very very true. I caught fish in two events last year and will admit it was all luck.
S-
MD,
Look at the teams that fight each year for the Top Gun award (Most consistant) Alot of the same teams year after year are in the top 20. Luck? Absolutely some involved? Percentage on these guys that is luck? Less than 20%.
If I have to pick overall, every team that participated on ever water I fished...
60 skill 40 luck
S |
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| Thanks for the opinions -- Sure enough, Carlson and Carlson show up on the leader board quite often as do 2 or 3 other teams. has made me really think -- One thing for sure -- It's easy to set behind this computer and type -- it was hard as heck to boat a keeper this past weekend. My hats off to the guys who "put their money where their mouth is " and invest large amounts to make the pmtt possable. the cave has been sooo hot/cold the last 2-3 years. Seems like it's been a long time since the lake has a extended hot spell. when you are a weekend warrior and can't always be available for good weather it makes it tough to fish that lake. With the price of gas for the truck/boat combined i'd guess some of the out of state (and immed area) pressure may lessen , maybe it will get hot again. ManitouDan |
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Posts: 32958
Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | I have fished and managed Muskie tournaments for thirty years. In this game, one 'creates' one's own luck, and consistency is the barometer. I think it's more like 80/20, one has to be where the fish is, with a wet lure. look at the teams and anglers who are consistently in the money. That isn't luck, luck has no desire to be that constant. I compare the whole deal to a really good Poker player. The Deal? Luck. What one DOES with that deal to WIN? Skill. |
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Posts: 381
| 50-50
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Posts: 101
Location: Liberty, IN (OKI Tri-State) | My $.02 as a fairly accomplished tourney participant; 5-plus PMTT years and many Club & MI events over the past decade; is that luck plays a lot less into the mix than most average-to-good sticks care to admit or realize.
Others have already mentioned the likes of Team Carlson who again this weekend had another Top 10 PMTT finish. Tom Olson/Seamus Hanley @ 5th and current reigning PMTT TOP GUNS Swenson/Allen narrowly missed a win with 2nd. These are but a few of the nearly two-dozen Team names like Summers/Demars, Mindar/DuBe' and still more that will always pop up at the Final Leaderboard ... regardless the part of the country they are fishing. This consistancy is no fluke. They may be masters of their region as well, but the ability to compete succesfully at a national level of this nature is just plain hard to do.
My ratio would be closer to an 80-to-20; skill-to-luck! You can be doing all the right things at the right time for the right reasons and still not contact a hungry fish. Timing is the bigger factor even than luck, but you could consider it sort of a 'luck of the draw' thing when the final factors dictating Musky response or feeding windows are concerned. But to consistently be there to take advantage of those opportunities is much more akin to skill and intuitive reasoning.
As for not contacting biters after lighting them up pre-fishing and setting a pattern .... hmmmm? There could just as likey be a viable co-relation to your working over that percentage of the muskellunge population that was susceptable to those tactics; thus lending them ineffective during tourney hours. I have heard it called 'sore mouthing' fish among other things and many will forgo this controversial practice of "serious pre-fishing" (activley seeking and hooking) for more of a scouting mission aimed at determining stage of weed growth, baitfish location and activity, water clarity-temps-levels and information of that ilk.
Just something to think about I guess but worth the effort and thought. I have interviewed and competed against some very good esox anglers over the years; pro and expert amateurs alike ... and they are generally well prepared, open-minded, intuitive thinkers with a high degree of focus and more passion than most. They are not luky ... they are #*^@ good!
Bob "the Fin-Addict" Osborne
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Posts: 2515
Location: Waukesha & Land O Lakes, WI | 35% Skill and lake knowledge, 65% luck.....why so high on the luck end? Nobody can put a legal at the end of your line. Sure you can know where fish can and will be, no you cant pick and choose what hits your lure. The percenatages may tip more to equal the more a team fishes tournament waters.
I see a consistant phrase about some teams scoring alot and that's not luck....nope, it's not, but what that tells me is two things. 1) They know where to fish, 2) they fish alot of tournaments and alot on the same bodies of water. Example, How many tourny's does the Minocqua Chain see every year? Odds are teams who fish it alot will do better on average than teams that don't.
Edited by Gander Mt Guide 4/11/2006 10:53 AM
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