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| Message Subject: Do you Overset with Superlines ? | |||
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| Do any of you out there feel that this is at all possible?A few times this year it almost seemed that I over set on some fish!I have never seen any instance to double/triple set at all.In the last couple years I have had to cut more hooks then ever.Is it equipment or just getting to be a better fisherman or luck?With all the new/good lines out there I was just wondering what everyone else thinks?Here`s my rating of the lines I used this year #1=Tuff+,#2Whiplash,#3PowerPro!Next year I will try the line Pete M.endorses and not buy the PowerPro,it seems to be very hard on equipment to me!So is it the superlines or what? Jeff [;)] | |||
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| Handyman, I think you are right. I went through a terrible learning curve when I first started using super lines (TUF). I like stiff rods for working lures, so I was losing fish at boatside as you "directed" or "steered" them for landing. One shake of the head and they were able to produce enough slack to shake the bait. Couple that with torn hook holes from over-powering the fish, and the bait could more easily dislodge when the fish did get some slack. I also learned that the classic "Bob Mehsikomer hookset" is essential... especially with the stiff rods I like. I was literally tearing the bait away from fish on the hookset. It took me a few pair of lips attached to my bait without the rest of the fish to prove that point. Now I just tighten up the line with some emphasis. No major jerking... and definitely NOT multiple hooksets. Multiple hooksets actually give the fish too much slack too!!! If you don't tear the bait away... the fish will spit the bait with the tiny amount of slack line you give them as you reel down to "give 'em another one". I think most guys have adjusted to using superlines... but those still converting should seriously consider the "no stretch" factor. Thanks for bringing this up!!! jlong | |||
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| jlong,thanx for the IN-DEPTH responce!You brought to light what I kinda expected.Now I see why my boy hooks fish so well.He must have the right touch/strenght!There is a definate learning curve and next season I/we will be paying much,much,much ATTENTION! Jeff | |||
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| I have always been a fan of rods with some good flex in them. Tha advent of Superlines has really been a blessing for me. I have no problem setting the hook and don't feel the need to come out of my shoes to get the job done. The combination of a flexible rod for fighting the fish and a no-stretch line is the best combo for my tastes. I never could stand to use the old pool cues and I'm sure many guys lost fish because there was no give in the rod. I'm very happy with the trends toward longer, more flexible rods, and all the line options that are available to us now. Beav | |||
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| Jeff....I have recently invented + plan to market this spring a tension gauge which is placed on the rod base + enables one to tell the size of the fish + how much pressure to apply! Each hookset will provide just the right amount of "set", eliminating the stress of "did I set the hook too hard....did I not set the hook hard enough?"....I hung the postmaster w/ a depthraider at 30 yds. + it works great!!! Coming to a bait shop near you....[:sun:] | |||
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| Beaver brings up a great point. When I started musky fishing many moons ago, a 5'6" pool cue was THE musky rod. The extremely stiff action was very important since all the lines availabe had lots of stretch in them. Mono was useless when trying to rip a Bobbie Bait through thick cabbage. Stepping up to the infamous 36# Braided Dacron was a quantum leap in reduced line stretch. BUT, it still stretched. That was what provided the forgiveness for handling fish at boatside and prevented us from pulling baits away from fish. The short rod and stretchy line made it tough to transfer enough energy to the hook point to due a lot of damage. Thus, the old school hookset was to drive it home several times. THIS DOES NOT WORK TODAY!!!! Now the situation is reversed. Rods provide the FLEX needed to maintain a tight line. The fishing line has no stretch and transfers energy directly to the hook point where it is needed to stick fish. Since I still favor STIFF rods.... my habits needed to change. Stiff rod + No Stretch Line = lost fish but very efficient twitching, ripping, and hooksetting of the lure. I'm not gonna give up my twitching habits... so some other habits had to change.... like my hookset. If you don't want to change your "style" but want to take advantage of the long rods and superlines.... then go with a rod that has a softer action. If you don't, you will encounter the same trouble I experienced. I'm not trying to be a dink about this... just want to help others prevent a disaster. There is nothing worse than watching you "fish of a lifetime" go bye bye at boatside because of operator error. Hopefully I've helped some people out in that department. Good Luck. jlong | |||
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| Jlong, After using pool cues and 36 pound dacron for years, I've made a change in my tackle. Unless I'm using VERY large lures, I use medium to heavy bass tackle. I've found that these rods, coupled with PowerPro gives me all the muscle that I need for muskies. I crank the drag down tight when fishing, this allows me to work twitchbaits, rip lures through weeds and get decent hook sets. Once I get the hooks into the fish, I'll back the drag off and use my thumb to apply pressure when it's needed. This lessening of the drag has been very important, especially at boatside. You're right, simple headshakes and short runs can result in lost fish due to the no-stretch properties of superlines. But lighter tackle with a little flex and an educated thumb will get you more muskies in the boat. A 7 or 71/2 foot flippin stick does a fantastic job when using most small to medium sized muskie lures. When using the heavyweight lures, I've built heavy duty rods with a good amount of backbone, yet a soft enough tip to allow for surges and shakes. But still, the most important single thing that anyone can do is learn to back that drag off and play the fish with your thumb. Steve @ G & S Guide Service and Custom Rods. http://www.herefishyfishy.com | |||
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| Funny thing is back in the late 70's-early 80's when I was on the Daiwa pro staff, I brought it to their attention that the move toward longer rods with longer handles in bass fishing applications was the same route that the muskie fishing rods should be taking. Lots of backbone, good flex at the tip for leverage....I was excited that this was the way to go. Unfortunately they didn't take my advice. Maybe it was my shoulder length hair that upset them, but they didn't take me seriously and opted for a 5'10" rod design instead. So I guess we could have had superior rods 20 years ago if I would have had shorter hair or something. Still pi$$es me off when I think about that meeting. [:(] Beav | |||
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| Was asking myself and the board this same question in early November after I had on the biggest fish of my career and lost it after about 30-50 seconds. I wanted to make sure and get the hook set and question whether or not I tore it loose instead?????????? Phantom glide bait, 6'6" MH St.Croix and 85lb. Cortland Spectron. Fish hit 30 feet from the boat and when I felt how heavy it was I wanted to make sure the hooks got home...! What I got was 5 seconds of underwater head shake, a small run, more head shake, crank in about 10 feet of line/set it again...head shake....fish lost. One leg of the middle treble came back straightened to almost 90 degrees.... Made me wonder..... Did I ever have hooks in her? Did I over-set the hooks? Was she just that darn strong that she straighteded the hook and got off? Good thread Jeff, I lost a few fish this year that I shouldn't have and questioned whether or not I Over-played the fish now that I am using 61/2, 71/2 and 8 foot rods with superlines???? Mark Musky Adventures Eau Claire | |||
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| Made me wonder..... Did I ever have hooks in her? ***With a straightened hook, I'd have to say that yes, you did have hooks in her. Did I over-set the hooks? ***You might not have overset the hooks, but with the outfit that you describe, if there was no slippage on the drag, too much pressure was applied. Was she just that darn strong that she straighteded the hook and got off? ***Yes, she was, but again, had you backed off the drag, when she did make a big headshake or a power run, line would have peeled off the reel, not exerting an excessive amount of pressure. Then, the hook might not have straightened out. But who knows for certain? Coulda, shoulda, woulda, it's easy to second guess or be an armchair quarterback. Sometimes you're the windshield, sometimes you're the bug. On that particular day, it was definitely "Bug Time". Next time, try sticking them once really good, then backing off the drag and taking your time with the fish. It might make a difference. Good Luck and Merry Christmas, Steve @ G & S Guide Service and Custom Rods. http://www.herefishyfishy.com | |||
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| Steve, I fish with my drags not quite as tight as you described earlier but have for years backed the drag off to almost fee-spool and use my thumb on most every fish including this one regardless of size. In fact it's one of the things I teach my clients to do as I agree with your reasons 100%. I only started using the superlines on all rods a few (2) years ago and haven't lost as many fish as I personally did this year. Most of those were lost on an 8' rod that I purchased this spring and were lost very shortly after the initial hookset. I even tried to not over set it with multiple sets but still lost a few. My wife and "new to Musky's clients" on the other hand are setting more hooks since I switched all the rods over which substantiates the theory of not needing to "horse" the hook sets as much as we used to. That was the almost the last outting of the season, coming season I will not be using the "traditional" hook sets we have become accustomed to. It's damn hard not to give them that extra pop though.....confidence thing I guess. My personal opinion....I think/am sure I got "buck/50inch" fever. I have never boated a 50+, my partner who is experienced, got a good look at her said this one was pushing 54 easy. Live and learn.... Mark | |||
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| Mark, I do know how you feel. THREE DIFFERENT TIMES this past season, I lost a fish that was over 50!!! For all I know, it could have been the same fish as it was in the same area each time! What are you going to do? If you're like me, you'll just nod, smile and cast again. Steve @ G & S Guide Service and Custom Rods. http://www.herefishyfishy.com | |||
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| Brian, Agree with the "sharp hooks" comments. I am quite religious about this. I use primarily VMC's and have a few with Mustads that I haven't seen a need to change out. I too have had fish virtually hook themselves. Right now I am going through the learning curve as I have fallen in love with the newer long rods and superlines. It's not epidemic, I caught many more than I lost but honestly lost 5-7 fish this year that I don't think I would have previously. Certainly not the tackles fault, just me getting used to the "feel" of the longer rods with a little more flex and having the confidence that I don't need to use the older traditional hooksets we did years ago. Yes Steve, I smile and swear a little and then start pitching baits a few minutes after one gets away.....It's part of what keeps us coming back..[:praise:] Good thread and info shared, hope others can learn a little from our conversations. Have a great holidays guys, Mark Musky Adventures Eau Claire, WI | |||
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| Seems there isn't much need for my invention Mark...all Tension Gauges are now 50 per cent off![:0] [:sun:] | |||
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| I get a kick out of listening to you guys describe your hook sets.If that's the way you set em' normally ,what do you do when you're sucker fishing?That's the only time I use what you guys describe as hook sets.With the new super lines all you gotta do is rearback and keep the line tight,then loosen up the drag and let the longer rods of today tire the fish out.Nothing to it.If only getting them to hit would be as easy.LOL | |||
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| I am sure you do if your using the same rods as befor. I have gone to lighter rods with the new lines and it has helped. My big bait rods I have just learned to go easy with, I also belive that you have to use a softer drag or you'll lose more fish. Merry Xmas.Don Pfeiffer | |||
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