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| I just want to see if anyone used circle hooks this fall for the first time and if so what was your feed back on it.
What was your hooking percentage vs. Quick sets. Please include how many pick ups you had in comparison to quick sets also. |
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| Quick Strikes way out produced the Circle Rigs this year. We were blanked on the Circles actually. 0/3 on Circles and a good percentage of hook ups on the Quick Strikes. I had the biggest of our groups with the 48"er on the Wolverine Big Bites.
We used a wide variety of brands also. Homemade circles, Joe Bucher Circle and Quick Strikes, Wolverine Big Bites and Maina Lift Off Rigs.
Rob |
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| If I can get some suckers where I am going I will be using circle hooks for the first time. Quick strikes are not an option because they get snagged up. Nobody is too keen on getting alot of suckers south of the fox chain and they usually have to put them in with the general population of bait. I bought eagle claw 10/0 and 8/0 circle hooks. I will be using a rubber band through the nose and I will post my results if I have a pick up.
I will ask the rubber band question again. Since a musky can digest bone and large ones, do you think it dissolves or passes the rubber band?[:)] |
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| Did anyone see the Hayward (I think it was Headwaters) Chapter Report in the back of Muskie Magazine from the last issue? They detailed approximately 6 fish they caught with circles and released with transmitters. Don't quote me on this as I cannot find the issue but I think it was 5 of 6 died that were hooked in the mouth!
The article didn't identify any cause of death. After reading it I found myself thinking, If a Muskie swallows a fish head first and someone pulls it out, won't it damage the fishes guts on the way out? The dorsal fin on the bait collapses on the way in but on the way out it must be like a rack of spines that can carve up the guts of the Muskie.
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| Jason,
This is the second year that I have tried circle hooks, not sure there will be a third. In the two years I have tried several types and brands. Overall my hooking percentage is under 50%. This year I had two gullet hooked fish in a row and that was the end of their use in my boat for the year. I do get more pick ups on them, but with such a low hooking percentage I have found I'm better off with Q/S rigs.
I had my best results with a modified hook that I rebent myself. I think there are some inherent problems with most of the hooks on the market. If I can "build" the hook I want over the winter I may give them another try next season.
One question that I have been asking folks (without much feed back I might add) is, "Does your number of larger fish go down with circle hook usage"? Mine definately has. Only one good fish on a circle in two years (27#s). Are many of those missed fish also the larger ones? I'm beginning to think so. Any input from folks out in Musky land?
Joel Tinker
Top Tackle Guide Service
www.toptackle.com
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| I only used suckers on one trip this year, but went 0 for 3 on circles. Actually, one of the 3 fish made it in the net, but the fish just never let go of the sucker. We never hooked the fish. It was one of those days when the 'skis wouldn't eat. We let the fish take all three suckers for up to 30 minutes and they never ate. After the third fish did this we changed to quick-strikes and didn't get bit again. I talked to a guy at the ramp that evening and he got three fish to go on quick-strikes, but he missed every one of them.
For me it's just a gut feeling when deciding which way to go. My general rule is for water under 45 degrees, ultra-clear, snaggy or the days when I think fishing may be slow I go with a circle. When the water is over 45, stained or a day when I think the fish may be going good it's quick-strikes. Out of those rules the water temp is definitely the least important. And sometimes it's best not to waste your time with suckers because the fish are biting too good to take the time to rig them up and keep them from getting snagged and everything else.
JM,
If you could find out what issue that study you were referring to was in I'd like to see it. Were the people from this study involved or associated with the CFMS in any way? There seems to be a lot of bad blood up that way and I would question the validity and accuracy of that study. I know a few people fishing the chip have had great sucess using circle hooks and they have had no problems at all. I agree we should all question and be aware of the methods we use to catch fish so we do as little harm as possible to the fishery. However, after the whole CFMS fiasco it's more difficult to determine how valid some of the "scientific" studies really are. |
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| Like Joel mentioned, there was some inherent problems with most of the hooks out on the market.
Most were "offset" or not "true" circles. I use the mustad demen hooks that I have only found thru Cabellas and Wolverine tackle They are extremly round and turned in so sharp its more then 360 degrees. I have knowen about the Hayward study and that only one good mustad hook was used from what I heard, the others were all offset VMC circles. They had a successfull release with the mustad hook. The mustad hook is so turned in you could put it in a nylon stocking and pull it out without it staging at all. I have tried it in my pocket many times and when I yank it out it only gets caught on the outside corner of the pocket.. just like it would be on a muskies mouth. The short shank of the hook only allows it to roll around a corner in order for it to hook anything.
Of coarse by all means is this a science yet, but it surly seems to be that those not using the correct "Mustad hook" are the ones having problems.
I am still in question to the best placement of the hook on the sucker.. I know alot of folks that hook a sucker thru the upper part of the mouth on the sucker. And they have done well on that too. For me I like a very light, often clipped rubberband use in a herbie method. I make it so easy to break the rubberband that you cant lift the sucker into the boat.
I still hear about more kills on quicksets from folks that get mad because they miss the first three then they let the muskie take the fourth longer.. thus killing that one. I see that every year at the boat landing. Quicksets are safe, it uses quickly like the name says.
Time will tell. but both methods in my opinion have a time an place and work just fine.
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| Bob:
Its in the November issue of Muskie under the Hayward Lakes Chapter report on page 31.
It looks like Detloff was involved so I'm sure many will question the study. They reported 9 fish were hooked and fitted with transmitters. 6 are dead and 3 remain alive.
Some interesting excerpts include:
"Apparently the sucker and hook still managed to damage the fishes internal organs as the hook and or sucker was pulled back out during the fight and the landing process. Some fish were hooked in the mouth area but had probably swallowed the sucker but some fish still ended up being gut hooked."...."It makes no sense to carefully release fish all summer and then when fall arrives, start killing the fish by letting them swallow suckers and hooks."
Reading between the lines it appears they are inferring that pulling sucker out may cause damage to the Muskie. Accurate or not we may never know but it sure sounds like a plausible argument as those fins on the sucker coming out against the grain would be sharp.
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| jm,
I'll have to get a copy, thanks. From what I know and what Jason said above, the key is using a completely straight circle hook. Even some of the "true" circle hooks on the market are slightly offset. Those hooks are gut-hookers for sure. From the part of the article which you posted here, I think it's possible that the 3 fish that died were all gut-hooked. From at least the part that you copied here the article didn't say that any of the fish that died were hooked in the mouth. It only said that it appears that the sucker or hook still damaged the fish. I wonder how they determined that. Your theory about the fins being open on the way out is possible, but unless they did a more thorough study it's impossible to say. I guess the best advice I could give to somebody right now would be to make sure the hooks are straight. It's fairly easy to bend the offset hooks and make them straight. I have also heard, like Jason said, that the Demon hooks are the only ones that don't have to be straightened. They are impossible to find though. I didn't buy any ahead of time when I went up north. I could only find the offset hooks and bent them back myself. Circle hooks are still very new, but I really think they will prove themselves to be very safe. They also are very effective in certain situations. If people are unsure how to use them though, they will gut-hook fish. Your best bet if you're unsure about them is to stick with quick-strikes, but still these need to be used properly too or you'll still have a dead fish. |
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| Hello everyone, This is a very interesting topic especially since I've been using circle hooks for four seasons now (Mustad Demon Circle) and for right now I've had VERY positive results (not perfect) if used correctly, In fact Im getting ready to finish a roughly 5500 word article on the Do's and Dont's on Circle Hooks along with pictures and diagrams on this very subject. As soon as it's complete and I decide which publication I'll submit it to I'll post it here. I'm sure that anyone who is using them or concidering using them will find this an enlighting read.
Chuck Altamore |
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| Chuck,
Sounds like great reading!!! I'll be looking forward to it. |
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| I do not use livebait for Muskies but do use them in the winter for Saltwater species. Our hooking percentage using circle hooks is decent and I find releasing fish is alot easier. Last winter we caught a bunch of good sized Cuda (to 51") all on circle hooks. The ones we landed were all hooked in the corner of the mouth and swam away strong.
www.greatfishing.net |
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| I tried using smaller circle hooks (yes, the right kind) while worm fishing for trout this summer. I only used them one morning because I gut-hooked 4 out of 10 fish. Normally I only gut hook maybe one in 15 to 20 depending on the time of year. Problem with the circle hooks is they really embed themselves in the stomach when they hook there. Normally I use a fine wire kahle style hook with the barb pinched down. When gut hooked I have a pair of small, curved surgical hemostats that I can almost always back the kahle style hook out of the stomach and leave virtually no damage. Maybe the system just doesn't work as well with small circle hooks. BTW, I never let the fish take it for more than a few seconds before I started reeling.
I have had good success halibut fishing with circle hooks and don't think I ever gut hooked one.
For what its worth,
BrianW |
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| Hey Doc,
Don't you know that any self-respecting trout angler uses a flyrod!!! Just kidding. I know you said you had the right hooks and did everything right with the trout, but you didn't. After you caught the trout, you were suppossed to put 'em in a livewell and bring them to your favorite musky lake for bait. That would give you a huge edge when livebaiting whether you use circles or quick-strikes. [:sun:] |
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| If I can get my hands on suckers where I wan't to go, I am going to use circle hooks. The eagle claws I bought are straight and not bent away from the shank. I am going to rubber band mine.
For me there are two uses for circle hooks. Heavy snag lakes and warm water. I tried quick strikes last year during a warm water time and not one sucker lasted an hour before croaking. |
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