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Location: Chisholm, MN | Several years ago I noticed that there often seems to be a slight wind increase during moon rise and maybe moon set. I also heard it mentioned by Lee Tauchen a couple years ago. I could be off on my timing but that reinforced my thought. I was finally bored enough to look it up this morning and found this interesting article. https://predictweather.co.nz/ArticleShow.aspx?ID=438&type=home
The reason I bring it up is just to reinforce moon periods being feeding windows. I’d never heard it really explained and this makes sense to me. Or maybe is BS. I don’t know. |
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| Good stuff Kirby.Wind and water movement matters.Moon n Sun???Not much there beyond that except mysticism IMO. |
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Location: Duluth | Kirby Budrow - 2/10/2024 10:58 AM
Several years ago I noticed that there often seems to be a slight wind increase during moon rise and maybe moon set. I also heard it mentioned by Lee Tauchen a couple years ago. I could be off on my timing but that reinforced my thought. I was finally bored enough to look it up this morning and found this interesting article. https://predictweather.co.nz/ArticleShow.aspx?ID=438&type=home
The reason I bring it up is just to reinforce moon periods being feeding windows. I’d never heard it really explained and this makes sense to me. Or maybe is BS. I don’t know.
Something that I have absolutley experienced racing sailboats, moon rises, breeze picks up but it's incredibly hard to catch. I have always noticed it when moon rise is significantly after sunset |
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Location: Walker, MN | Not sure about the moon, but I pay attention to sea breezes and have used them to our advantage. When you get a bright, flat day, sea breezes can be a real difference maker. |
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Location: SE, WI. | Oh Ya! Noticed wind increases for years on all the moon times. Rise, set, overhead, and at foot. Gravitational Pull causes those winds and tides! JD |
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Location: Twin Cities Metro | What is the wind speed associated with these moon winds? What direction are these moon winds?
Edited by RobertK 2/13/2024 8:25 AM
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| A couple years ago, I was ice fishing on a back bay off the WI river. Buddy I went with had punched a number of holes. I caught a couple but after an hour he suggested I set up somewhere else. I told him I was marking fish, just were not hitting. Well, right after that the wind switched and picked up, to the point I moved my bucket so my back was to the wind. And the fish turned on, I was catching gills as fast as I could drop the bait back down. I stopped when I had plenty of keepers for a couple meals.
When I got home, checked the tables and saw the moon phase coincided with the wind change. Don't know which triggered the fish but it was a dramatic change.
Edited by North of 8 2/13/2024 3:56 PM
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| I don't know what the moon phase last year mid Sept on Nip but the wind picked up (Flat calm day) to maybe 2mph out of the west (just a constant rippled on the water) and the fish went insane. 3 muskies on 3 casts, 12 fish in the boat that day should have been closer to 17-18. Craziest 3-4hrs of muskie fishing I've ever had. It's like a switch was flipped. I'm hoping to get a repeat performance in 2024.
Edited by BillM 2/13/2024 9:02 PM
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Location: oswego, il | I would think that change in wind would also move the barometer. |
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| ToddM - 2/14/2024 7:26 AM
I would think that change in wind would also move the barometer.
Pressure definitely was at play as well. The perfect storm of muskie fishing  |
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Location: Twin Cities Metro | RobertK - 2/13/2024 2:08 AM
What is the wind speed associated with these moon winds? What direction are these moon winds?
Bumpity bump bump bump. Any answers? |
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Location: Duluth | From the article:
Willis Eschenbach notes that before full moon, the moon wind is always an east wind. After full moon the moon rises at night, so during that time the moon wind is a west wind. After full moon, the west wind at moonrise opposes the underlying east wind, and is seen as a brief period of calm around the time of moonrise. But if the underlying wind is from the west, the wind at moonrise will reinforce that west wind and lead to a brief gusty period around moonrise.
Truthfully I am still wrapping my head around this as it relates to weather. If you put your back to the wind, the low pressure is always over your left shoulder.....now trying to figure how moon plays into this.
Moon wind Not nearly as hard to conceptualize during stable weather periods. |
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Location: Twin Cities Metro | I wasn't asking what the article predicts the winds will be like. I was asking what people have actually observed.
I am pretty skeptical that the variation in pressure on the time scale associated with tidal effects on the atmosphere would produce observable air currents. Especially when considering that these effects would be dwarfed by local pressure variations due to weather. Because remember: these pressure variations (which are tiny!) would happen over the course of hours, just like the oceanic tides. Tidal currents in water are only really noticeable when we observe them at the surface near to where water meets the shoreline. Moon winds would be like observing such tidal effects at the bottom of the mid-ocean (because we live at the bottom of the atmosphere, 60 miles beneath where the atmospheric tidal bulge exists). If you want to observe these "moon winds", you'd have to be in orbit at an altitude at the "top" of the atmosphere. Then you'd experience the sweep of the tidal bulge of the atmosphere as it crossed your orbital position. And it would happen over the course of about 6 hours, just like the oceanic tides. The difference is that the density of the atmosphere at that altitude is so tiny that it would be pretty tough to notice a variation in that already low density without specialized equipment. |
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Location: Duluth | RobertK - 2/16/2024 10:17 AM
I wasn't asking what the article predicts the winds will be like. I was asking what people have actually observed.
I am pretty skeptical that the variation in pressure on the time scale associated with tidal effects on the atmosphere would produce observable air currents. Especially when considering that these effects would be dwarfed by local pressure variations due to weather. Because remember: these pressure variations (which are tiny!) would happen over the course of hours, just like the oceanic tides. Tidal currents in water are only really noticeable when we observe them at the surface near to where water meets the shoreline. Moon winds would be like observing such tidal effects at the bottom of the mid-ocean (because we live at the bottom of the atmosphere, 60 miles beneath where the atmospheric tidal bulge exists). If you want to observe these "moon winds", you'd have to be in orbit at an altitude at the "top" of the atmosphere. Then you'd experience the sweep of the tidal bulge of the atmosphere as it crossed your orbital position. And it would happen over the course of about 6 hours, just like the oceanic tides. The difference is that the density of the atmosphere at that altitude is so tiny that it would be pretty tough to notice a variation in that already low density without specialized equipment.
I don't believe moon wind would be applicable to 99.9% of inland bodies of water. Superior, Huron, Michigan and their estuaries all experience tides. It's the moons impact on the water, that water moving that then moves the air etc.
These guys have a whole lot more real life experience
https://forums.sailinganarchy.com/threads/can-tides-control-the-wind... |
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| Atmospheric pressure does some pretty interesting things. While living in Fond du Lac, Lake Winnebago experienced a seiche. Pressure on the west side of the lake was different enough from pressure on the east side that the water on the east side of the lake rose over a foot and water on the west side sank over a foot. Apparently this is not uncommon on the great lakes but for an inland lake like 'Bago, very uncommon.
Co-worker lived on the East side of the lake and was glad when the news media did stories on it because she said they saw it and could not figure out what was happening. |
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Location: Selkirk, Manitoba | Tidal effects on weather are real (including tidal winds). Tidal winds = moon winds. I don't think anyone near the ocean would call them moon winds, and there also is no wind on the moon.
https://www.nature.com/articles/s43247-022-00403-y
The issue here when we equate the moon with having any tidal effects on lakes - it is pretty much zero on any lakes other than ones with any significant volume - ie Lake Superior. I think somewhere mentioned a tidal effect of 5 cm on Superior when the moon at its closest. Basically insignificant compared to actual wind (seiche) effect.
I go muskie fishing when I can, never pay attention to what the moon stuff is. Inconsequential compared to other things that should be accounted for.
Edited by Angling Oracle 2/16/2024 1:38 PM
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Location: Duluth | https://tidesandcurrents.noaa.gov/waterlevels.html?id=9099064&units=...
240216&timezone=LST/LDT&datum=IGLD&interval=6&action=
For example |
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Location: Twin Cities Metro |
So a water level tidal amplitude of a couple of inches (ie on Lake Superior) whose variation happens over hours, is going to produce measurable surface winds through viscous drag at the air-water interface? That’s the effect folks are talking about?
The Nature article posted by Angling Oracle shows that such surface winds are only resolvable from background in an area of the ocean where the oceanic tidal currents are some of the largest in the world. Even then, the surface winds only (barely!) resolve from background winds at the meso-scale (10- to 100-day time scale). They are discussing this as a very small effect on CLIMATE (how does tidal energy become dissipated through atmospheric-oceanic friction)…not weather.
Edited by RobertK 2/17/2024 6:37 PM
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| Tide extra hygienic works the best on pizza stains, that's one thing I'm an authority on. |
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Location: E. Tenn | "Weather and water conditions trump solunar effects"...
...and Tide works pretty darn well on tough stains.
Edited by miket55 2/17/2024 10:14 PM
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Location: Selkirk, Manitoba | RobertK - 2/17/2024 6:17 PM
That’s the effect folks are talking about?
I think folks (Kirby's source, be it Lee or someone else) are referring to breezes and then trying to correlate it to the moon when in reality it is probably the usual breezes created from variations in temperature between land and water.
I think we are on the same page that probably the breezes encountered on the muskie waters we fish are from some other cause than the moon.
Edited by Angling Oracle 2/17/2024 10:37 PM
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Location: Twin Cities Metro | Agreed, Angling Oracle.
I’m continually surprised by the mysticism ascribed to lunar position. |
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| Hell yes! |
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Location: Chisholm, MN | Angling Oracle - 2/17/2024 10:36 PM
RobertK - 2/17/2024 6:17 PM
That’s the effect folks are talking about?
I think folks (Kirby's source, be it Lee or someone else ) are referring to breezes and then trying to correlate it to the moon when in reality it is probably the usual breezes created from variations in temperature between land and water.
I think we are on the same page that probably the breezes encountered on the muskie waters we fish are from some other cause than the moon.
Could be. But how do we know for sure? |
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Location: Duluth | Angling Oracle - 2/17/2024 10:36 PM
RobertK - 2/17/2024 6:17 PM
That’s the effect folks are talking about?
I think folks (Kirby's source, be it Lee or someone else ) are referring to breezes and then trying to correlate it to the moon when in reality it is probably the usual breezes created from variations in temperature between land and water.
I think we are on the same page that probably the breezes encountered on the muskie waters we fish are from some other cause than the moon.
To be clear, I never stated I observed them while fishing. Only that I had noticed subtle wind shifts when racing sailboats offshore. On otherwise dead nights, 60 plus miles away from any land mass, already accounting for currents.
This season I will be sure pay better attention to tidal data and overlay it with the anemometer on the boat to see if there is any observable "moon effect". The effects of which will be negligible when it comes to making a sailboat go. |
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Location: S.W. WI | RobertK - 2/17/2024 10:54 PM
Agreed, Angling Oracle.
I’m continually surprised by the mysticism ascribed to lunar position.
Amen,..
Edited by Rudedog 2/19/2024 1:04 PM
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Location: Walker, MN | Rudedog - 2/19/2024 1:02 PM
RobertK - 2/17/2024 10:54 PM
Agreed, Angling Oracle.
I’m continually surprised by the mysticism ascribed to lunar position.
Amen,.. |
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| Masqui-ninja - 2/23/2024 10:07 AM
Rudedog - 2/19/2024 1:02 PM
RobertK - 2/17/2024 10:54 PM
Agreed, Angling Oracle.
I’m continually surprised by the mysticism ascribed to lunar position.
Amen,.. The moon definitely influences muskie anglers in a big way.
Are you referencing the origins of the phrase "loony"? |
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Location: Twin Cities Metro | Masqui-ninja - 2/23/2024 4:07 AM
The moon definitely influences muskie anglers in a big way.
I agree with that statement unequivocally. |
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