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Posts: 32798
Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | See the video!
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Location: Athens, Ohio | Dang, I was hoping it was YOUR fish, Steve. m |
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Posts: 166
| That's a toad. |
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Posts: 28
Location: Virginia | Incredible fish! |
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Posts: 359
Location: SW Ohio | Big girl, there. |
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Location: Contrarian Island | great fish, but the way it was caught imo is not exactly fishing, or ethical. this particular 'guide' drives around with his big motor and 3-4 livescopes until he spots bait and or muskies and casts tubes etc at them, often times in deeper water. I know of one that did not survive after they released it as another angler I know and trust had to try and revive the fish. maybe it lived. While it is 'legal' is that really ethical? I suppose there are those that would drive around and shoot deer at night with a spotlight if it was legal too.  |
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Posts: 596
Location: Duluth | What happened to the how to PEE off a muskie article where multiple anglers talked about how locating musky was the biggest factor in catching..... |
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Posts: 32798
Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | The link was removed, so can't share anymore. |
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| BNelson - 9/18/2023 8:40 AM great fish, but the way it was caught imo is not exactly fishing, or ethical. this particular 'guide' drives around with his big motor and 3-4 livescopes until he spots bait and or muskies and casts tubes etc at them, often times in deeper water. I know of one that did not survive after they released it as another angler I know and trust had to try and revive the fish. maybe it lived. While it is 'legal' is that really ethical? I suppose there are those that would drive around and shoot deer at night with a spotlight if it was legal too. :( I agree Brad. You missed the “Crappie Guys Know Livescope” thread from a few weeks ago. I’m really not a fan of Livescope in general and I believe that our fisheries will suffer greatly because of it. With the advancement in technology, we need to think about shortened seasons and I really like the thought of making it a law that states it’s mandatory to use barbless hooks.
Edited by Baby Mallard 9/18/2023 7:55 PM
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Posts: 120
Location: Twin Cities Metro | There's increasing evidence that muskies don't like sonar emissions. Some guides are noticing a strong tendency for fish coming in on Livescope to turn off well away from the boat, before they would normally be visible. In years past, these fish were much more likely to come all the way to the boat. Similarly, some guides have noticed that fish in open water will repeatedly move out of the beam of Livescope, eventually vacating the area if they were "painted" too many times.
I expect that fish are starting to, in essence, protect themselves from Livescope. They have had one or more unpleasant "out of water experiences" after getting popped with that sonar, and they are learning that it is best to avoid it. Muskies can absolutely detect those sonar emissions. On a calm day, I myself can hear those ultrasonic pulses. I guarantee muskies can hear them and feel them with their lateral line. Maybe it's gotten to the point where they are unwilling to ignore sonar. As the output power of these units goes up to increase range and fidelity, the "loudness" of that sonar is going up.
The day might come when all you want running on your boat is mapping and 2d sonar (directed downward so less likely to spook them) for the most stealthy presentation. Side imaging also has pretty high power output, so I'll bet that is getting pretty loud as well. Heck, there is already some anecdotal evidence that muskies don't like the sound of electric motors (gas-powered motors don't seem to spook them as much, surprisingly).
For fish that are caught and released as often as muskies, there is a lot of opportunity to associate angler activities with bad experiences. |
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Location: Contrarian Island | yah to me it is sad what the 'sport' has become to some. there are big name guides on Eagle that are now driving around and livescoping. These same guides made a living off of honing their skill, intuition, experience and knowledge finding fish now just drive around until they see one to have their clients cast at. I wish the technology was never invented. It is and will continue to ruin the sport and fishery. With budgets in many states for stocking already going in the wrong direction, less and less fish in our systems and these fish being caught even 20% more per year it WILL take a toll. I'm not a doomsdayer by any means but this livescope crap guys are doing is just not fishing... If a guy has it down while fishing that is one thing but 'sharp shooting' is ridiculous to me. |
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Posts: 32798
Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | BNelson - 9/19/2023 9:23 AM
yah to me it is sad what the 'sport' has become to some. there are big name guides on Eagle that are now driving around and livescoping. These same guides made a living off of honing their skill, intuition, experience and knowledge finding fish now just drive around until they see one to have their clients cast at. I wish the technology was never invented. It is and will continue to ruin the sport and fishery. With budgets in many states for stocking already going in the wrong direction, less and less fish in our systems and these fish being caught even 20% more per year it WILL take a toll. I'm not a doomsdayer by any means but this livescope crap guys are doing is just not fishing... If a guy has it down while fishing that is one thing but 'sharp shooting' is ridiculous to me.
This. The tech needs to be used responsibly at the least. |
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Posts: 596
Location: Duluth | RobertK - 9/19/2023 8:37 AM
There's increasing evidence that muskies don't like sonar emissions. Some guides are noticing a strong tendency for fish coming in on Livescope to turn off well away from the boat, before they would normally be visible. In years past, these fish were much more likely to come all the way to the boat. Similarly, some guides have noticed that fish in open water will repeatedly move out of the beam of Livescope, eventually vacating the area if they were "painted" too many times.
I expect that fish are starting to, in essence, protect themselves from Livescope. They have had one or more unpleasant "out of water experiences" after getting popped with that sonar, and they are learning that it is best to avoid it. Muskies can absolutely detect those sonar emissions. On a calm day, I myself can hear those ultrasonic pulses. I guarantee muskies can hear them and feel them with their lateral line. Maybe it's gotten to the point where they are unwilling to ignore sonar. As the output power of these units goes up to increase range and fidelity, the "loudness" of that sonar is going up.
The day might come when all you want running on your boat is mapping and 2d sonar (directed downward so less likely to spook them) for the most stealthy presentation. Side imaging also has pretty high power output, so I'll bet that is getting pretty loud as well. Heck, there is already some anecdotal evidence that muskies don't like the sound of electric motors (gas-powered motors don't seem to spook them as much, surprisingly).
For fish that are caught and released as often as muskies, there is a lot of opportunity to associate angler activities with bad experiences.
The "Pink Day" guide has this theory as well. Time will tell I guess. |
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Posts: 216
| Live Scope and/or any of the other forward facing sonars are here to stay. The uproar is similar to the protests about Suicks, paper graphs, side scan as well as down scan. None of those ruined fishing for any type of fish. Neither has the trolling motor, spot lock, autopilot, super lines, 10’ rods, high speed reels and the list can go on and on.
Is it much different than using side scan to find pods of bait in order to troll through them? What about polarized glasses to find shallow fish and/or weeds?
Technology is always improving, and so does the anglers ability to use it to put fish in the boat. There is a huge learning/skill set needed to use this new technology. It is not much different than learning to run a weed line, troll a reef, use a Suick in a cabbage bed or many other fishing methods.
Most fishermen want to put fish in the boat; some want to do it in a certain manner. Some want to claim their way is a more sporting fashion. All this sound similar to trout fly only fishermen complaining the use of live bait is unsporting or bass guys shaking their heads about live bait. It could also be compared to the faction who uses bait for deer, or those that run bear with dogs. These are all value based choices.
As an old guy, I remember, when Buck Perry was accused of raping the lakes with Spoonplugs, when the Lindners were accused of being a danger for pioneering the use of the Lindy Rig, when the Lorance Green Box was considered to be unsporting, when Minnesota considered outlawing the paper graph, when Wisconsin DNR was petitioned to prohibit the use of the Suick.
There have been many pushes to limit innovation. However, at this point I have not seen any concrete peer reviewed scientific evidence that point to a need to limit/prohibit the use of forward facing sonar.
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Posts: 32798
Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | I don't think the tech needs to be limited, I use Mega Live every time I'm on the water. It isn't the tech, it's how it's being used unethically. With the increasing pressure on the muskie population by an increasing angler base in an era of lower stocking, sharpshooting, especially in deep water, should be discouraged by those of us who care about the future of muskie fishing. I use mine as a boat control asset, and wouldn't be without it. |
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Posts: 3779
| I recall a scifi story where the ultra-wealthy would return to earth (so polluted people had to move to space) to hunt toxic deer. They landed, set up a nice picnic area and then released robot dogs to track down, kill and drag back a deer. There was no "sport"; once on a trail the robot dogs never failed to kill and drag back the deer. In the meantime the people would sit around eating and drinking and laying bets on just when the dogs would show back up with the dead critter.
We've seen guys with remote controlled hobby boats, 12-20" long, trolling a small Rapala and catching fish (always bass). How's about a remote-controlled mini submarine with tiny torpedoes.
Edited by Ranger 9/19/2023 10:06 PM
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Posts: 214
| I remember all my spots I had to my self for years on LOTW, then the GPS mapping came out and then LAKEMASTER and poof my spots were not my spots any more, its life we deal with it and move on 
Darren |
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