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Posts: 309
Location: Selkirk, Manitoba | Love using WTD and some success away from boat to get strikes, but coming close to boat, faster or not, typically they boat shy if on top due to very clear water. Dipping under water and ovaling has got fish closer and a nip, but nothing boated. Both these things basically "burn" the fish, so I'm of the mind to stop it out a ways and either the fish takes it or drifts away - but at least not burned.
Watching Bob M. (fishing LOTW generally as well) not seeing many boatside, so looking for other WTDers sort of success scenarios boatside.
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Posts: 478
Location: NW WI | Well, this may sound insane and it isn't directly comparable but might be worth a shot. The water I know best is a slow moving weed chocked system with max depth of prolly 7'. We're talking so much filth you'd say "ain't nothing in there except carp,bass and bowfin". Your only paddling or push poling through it type of thick. But the muskies and pike are there, and thick. At night with no moon or starlight ill only throw hollow body frogs because I can't see the banks. Rather than eight ting or ovaling I'll pop my bail, thumb the spool, and let that frog just sit still, maybe toss in a few fine twitches just enough to displace water a bit for 15 seconds. It's grueling and exciting. I have not landed anything doing this however so i cant say whats hitting for certain. Alot of times the boatside hits doing this are very gentle (leg grabs I assume) but sometimes you do get smashed and the s*** scared out of ya.
Maybe shortly b4 boatside try a very extended pause with some twitches like it's a topwater Fly. |
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Posts: 309
Location: Selkirk, Manitoba | Thanks Jay, my usual routine with WTD is hit the water and let it sit a bit, twitch a couple times - I would say a high percentage of fish caught on WTD are using this method where they bite where it lands first (mostly pike, but muskies and smallmouth as well). Likewise when a fish misses, just leave it or a few more twitches, stop - also successful.
I have a few real nice fish (the ones you really want to catch, 45 and up) reveal themselves way out, but just don't commit - bring them to the boat and never see them again. These are fish I would say that are well educated big fish - they won't even follow bucktails or rubber thrown in same area, but are mezmerized by WTD because they don't see it much. Seems once is enough for educating if bring them to boat - plus you have pulled them off their liar so potentially burned spot for trying later.
My thoughts given my experiences with these fish so far is that perhaps should be satisfied with finding the fish, let it sit say 20 yards, out, sit, fish either commits or not. Then come back later at dusk rather than burning the fish by bringing to the boat - typically over deeper water where it might just relocate entirely. This is assuming bringing boatside is a very low percentage play...
So I guess perhaps a better way to ask the question is what sort of percentages of WTD fish do folks hook, get bites from boatside? Crawlers kind of in same category in many ways.
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Posts: 478
Location: NW WI | Another idea to play with. I'm not on the SCENT TRAIN like the bass world. But in my experience playing with scent, it's worth a shot and you don't need much. It's a little extra incentive to possibly commit a cautious girl. ESPECIALLY on slow baits. |
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Posts: 309
Location: Selkirk, Manitoba | 7.62xJay - 4/15/2023 4:41 PM
Another idea to play with. I'm not on the SCENT TRAIN like the bass world. But in my experience playing with scent, it's worth a shot and you don't need much. It's a little extra incentive to possibly commit a cautious girl. ESPECIALLY on slow baits.
Definitely worth a try for this scenario |
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Posts: 32784
Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | I really like walk the dog topwaters, fun to watch the fish react. If the fish in pushing water, I try to keep everything steady to what raised her all the way to the boat, then sweep into a wide underwater 8 away from her if the fish didn't commit. On fish that are following deeper speeding up or slowing down has put a few in the net, but stopping has been mostly unproductive for me. |
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Posts: 309
Location: Selkirk, Manitoba | sworrall - 4/16/2023 1:38 PM
I really like walk the dog topwaters, fun to watch the fish react. If the fish in pushing water, I try to keep everything steady to what raised her all the way to the boat, then sweep into a wide underwater 8 away from her if the fish didn't commit. On fish that are following deeper speeding up or slowing down has put a few in the net, but stopping has been mostly unproductive for me.
WTD underthrown up here considering the relative attention they get - low hooking percentage certainly a downside but finding fish in skinny or high snag water worth the trade I think. Seems like varying speed may be the highest reward option with neutral fish vs the full stop and wait. |
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Posts: 2274
Location: Chisholm, MN | I've seen the full stop/pause work well. I agree, don't bring the fish to the boat. I'd say keep doing what you're doing. Just keep practicing triggering the strike away from the boat. |
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Posts: 1134
Location: NorthCentral WI | It may seem unorthodox but straight lining a Weagle in the figure 8 has worked on more than one occasion for me. Almost as if the change in movement from side to side to straight running was the trigger. Stained water may have been a factor in success, but both times I experienced it were solid mid 40's fish. |
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| Kirby Budrow - 4/17/2023 10:33 AM
I've seen the full stop/pause work well. I agree, don't bring the fish to the boat. I'd say keep doing what you're doing. Just keep practicing triggering the strike away from the boat.
Years ago at a show I asked Steve Heiting what he did with WTD lures and followers. He had just given a seminar where he stressed quality figure 8s. He said with WTD lures, he often did what he called 'dead stick' with the lure. Basically let it sit there, maybe the slightest twitch. Been quite a while, but think that was the gist of it. |
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Posts: 309
Location: Selkirk, Manitoba | Great getting some opinions. Obviously each case is situational and reading fish attitude. I do see a place on curious but low commitment fish for just being satisfied with finding them and trying to get a curiosity strike away from boat - and come back later if you don't. It does suck to find a real nice one and then never see it again after pulling it off some well defined hangout (reef top, ledge, or current break - basically something obvious) but not see the fish again for the whole trip if pulled out deep. Worth having a game plan in advance though so glad to hear it does work sometimes. |
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Posts: 309
Location: Selkirk, Manitoba | North of 8 - 4/17/2023 11:21 AM
Kirby Budrow - 4/17/2023 10:33 AM
I've seen the full stop/pause work well. I agree, don't bring the fish to the boat. I'd say keep doing what you're doing. Just keep practicing triggering the strike away from the boat.
Years ago at a show I asked Steve Heiting what he did with WTD lures and followers. He had just given a seminar where he stressed quality figure 8s. He said with WTD lures, he often did what he called 'dead stick' with the lure. Basically let it sit there, maybe the slightest twitch. Been quite a while, but think that was the gist of it.
Yes, have used the Heiting deadstick with twitch baits and even rubber - getting the jaw snapping where they do sometimes bite (but rarely) with neutral followers - hence thinking should work with WTD. Just hasn't happened yet for me - so far just the hard stare and fade away. |
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Posts: 32784
Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | By the way, I have found spotted muskies eat a walk the dog more readily than Northern Wisconsin lakes fish. May be where I'm fishing spots, but usually when I see one it at least tries most times. |
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Posts: 523
| Don't get in a steady consistent pattern during the retrieve. Vary it up, a lot like throwing a glider. Bucher has a video/ article or two on this. |
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Posts: 309
Location: Selkirk, Manitoba | ^^
Just to be a bit more clear, we do get a lot of bites and catch fish on WTD (why love doing it) - the ones that are bulging or tailing and hot as it were, and probably more just straight ambush strikes.
Kind of follows I'm referring to are the lurkers that are a foot or more under (not tailing or bulge) or in some cases late follower catching up to lure. Not really any different that a lazy or late bucktail follower but in this case the fish is looking up rather than behind lure, so these fish tend to flare more than say bucktails where you can start going deep with the figure 8 early while the lure a ways out from boat (impossible with buoyancy of WTD). Some of these fish are not intimidated by boat, and the occasional fish a repeat follower (or caught with an alternative presentation), but with the majority of my encounters to date it seems these fish more likely to be burned than with other types of lures, hence sort of exploring risk/reward whether worth bring to boat versus maybe stopping/twitch when lazy follow initially identified.
Risk with bringing to boat being burning fish and not having a good shot at it say at dusk or another day; reward being getting a strike.
Risk with stopping is reducing your chances perhaps with a boatside bite by not continuing motion and the fish simply drifting off - reward is locating the fish and then it drifts back to its lair and perhaps higher probability of reencountering it on the same spot in a more optimal bite window and higher hook potential lure.
When referring to lair I'm referring to very defined Cdn Shield type spots - a boulder, ledge, a small sand beach tucked into a tiny cove, a sunken tree, smaller current eddy or wee bit of cabbage where you can gameplan a dusk approach with some confidence that the fish is in the area. With more undefined locations like a big cabbage patch or beach or rocky point/reef, I think makes sense to fish to boat given the fish could relocate anywhere and you are likely starting fresh next time through anyway - and just as likely to encounter other fish.
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Posts: 357
| with topwaters in general if the fish is up waking i tend to like to keep the bait on the surface. if the fish is under the bait ill dunk it down.
walking baits in general (surface or subsurface) you hope to trigger away, not in their strong suit up close. I've been fiddling with one with a prop on the back so when going into a straight 8 there is still a bit of movement that is showing some promise.
Also a place to go back to with something else. Sometimes a walking bait is a great way to get a fish to give up its location. |
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Posts: 273
| Fish well behind the bait, or seeing a slight wake following, I've had some decent results slowing down the bait & walking it in place out away from the boat. Walking it in place with not much forward movement, sometimes gets the fish to close the gap while the bait hangs longer in front of their face. Some slack in the line, & slower retrieve to slow forward progress down. Ideally with flat calm or light chop conditions.
At the boat, hard to get them to go. A bait change for a throwback. Only other options sub surface or keeping it walking on the surface in a big oval or a combination of subsurface and back on the surface. Easier said than done. I do like the idea of a small propellor type blade that was mentioned. |
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Posts: 304
| On big fish I'll try the 'pause' if I can control myself.Dead in the water.After 5-6 seconds(eternity) try a twitch or 2.If no go I'll try 'trolling' away with the trolling motor if possible-then repeat.Once in awhile.....
Some may remember,back in the day I had a 50 'do it' on a pause on camera.Will ask my old camera guy if he has it. |
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Posts: 304
| Should say I don't 'walk' much anymore.Too hard on the heart before and after the misses. |
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| dickP - 4/22/2023 7:28 AM
Should say I don't 'walk' much anymore.Too hard on the heart before and after the misses.
I seem to provoke a lot more misses than hits with WTD baits. Some are spectacular, like a mid thirty fish that came completely out of the water, did a 180 in mid air and tried to eat on the way down. I saw it missed the bait but the bait disappeared and had weight on the line. Realized when it came down it had its mouth open and the line or leader got caught in its teeth. Was on for a couple seconds but could see the lure behind it. Happened close to the boat, so it was fun to see. |
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Posts: 309
Location: Selkirk, Manitoba | dickP - 4/22/2023 7:26 AM
On big fish I'll try the 'pause' if I can control myself.Dead in the water.After 5-6 seconds(eternity) try a twitch or 2.If no go I'll try 'trolling' away with the trolling motor if possible-then repeat.Once in awhile.....
Some may remember,back in the day I had a 50 'do it' on a pause on camera.Will ask my old camera guy if he has it.
Thanks Dick, can foresee scenarios where that would be a very doable play. Definitely extends the opportunity for a bite away from boat and not bringing it closer where they seem to get distracted and potentially burned for later.
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