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Posts: 711
| For me it's always about the hunt. If I can find what I want to catch and then catch it I'm good. Some times what I WANT differs...a skippy for a newcomer is great, a first whatever meaning simply a first...if that was the goal. It could be wanting a big one or a bunch of em OR a bunch of big ones.... and only that moves the bar at that time. So for me the goal changes constantly.
The interesting thing is that for me I still want that magic of imagining a fish is next to a rock and then trying to figure out where to make that highest percentage cast...the next one. I do like finding the rocks/weeds with new tech but for me that's were it stops...while I'm happy to see crappies "over there" I don't want to see muskies. I want to dissect whats going on and make the perfect cast to catch the one I feel should be sitting there.
So for me that's where the new tech starts and ends...I love being able to find "stuff" but want to figure the rest out on the fly without "seeing" one on the outlooking sonar.
And yes I just made up the word "outlooking" so anything that scans anywhere except the stuff right under you.
Just my personal feelings...and they could change...I would probably try it (with someone good at it)and see if it made me smile...but for now I don't think so. I've passed on doing it with very skilled players so I'm sure I don't care.
I'm curious how others view things...not on a tourney level just in your own world.
After all it's here to stay. The government sure isn't going to risk banning it. They have already allowed it to happen. It's just a fishing toy. That's not politics it's reality.
Edited by bturg 8/9/2022 10:28 PM
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Posts: 3136
| I'm tired of hearing the rationalization "still have to make em bite",,
Yeah you do but now you have more time to concentrate on that once you know where they are,,you can make trout bite in a crystal clear stream if you keep putting the fly over them,,I've done it.
Alot of today's anglers want the picture who cares about the hunt,,fight,,if the dnr said you can drag nets behind the boat because its all about bag limits and slots guys would do it in open water.
Look at me,look at me,look at me!!!, the quickest short cut to the picture is what alot of guys want.
Edited by happy hooker 8/10/2022 4:59 AM
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Posts: 607
Location: S.W. WI | Agree with Bob. It's about the reward from the effort. The "hunt" as he states.
Nothing easy has much value. Its not the "anyway legal just for the chest thumping picture to post" I have not seen a need to get the fancy new fangled "fish finding tech".
I do not care to hear about all the fish posted on socials. I dont participate. It's personal to me with the challenge. My trophy may well be nothing big to some. Don't care. I've done quite well on occasion. It's not all about bragging. I do want a pic of most bigs, I remember them all, every detail. I love the moment of pulling a big one out of the net. I live for that.
Edited by Rudedog 8/10/2022 6:25 AM
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Posts: 357
| go back to 16 ft aluminum boats with 35 HP motors....sure would make lake of the woods (and others) feel big again
go back to green boxes only to know depth
go back to using landmarks to line up off shore structure
go back to dacron
go back to no electric trolling motors, no spot lock
im just not sure where you can draw the line if you have embraced any new technology over the last 40 years. |
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Posts: 516
Location: WI | As far as the average joe like myself goes, I don’t waste much time worrying what technology they use or whether they do it for the hunt or for photos to show the world. Last I checked you can still limit yourself to a row boat if you want. Now seeing daily pictures of guides with their limited out clients(guides limit too) in front of their boat decked out with all the modern electronics….that rubs me the wrong way. I kind of view it like golf. The average joe takes technology and for some it helps a little and some it doesn’t make a difference. Put it in the hands of the “pros” and it’s just way to easy. |
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Posts: 536
Location: deephaven mn | Catching something you can't see was the beauty of fishing when i started 50 years ago. Having success and the realizing location was a huge part of success. Why are fish hanging out on certain structure or bottom composition was key to patterning fish.Then finding these stuctures elsewhere is how i became a better fisherman. That was alot of work in the past but part of the fun. Solving the puzzle, time on the water was the answer the best fisherman had the most time on the water. THe hunt has gotten easier due to electronics. Graphs not flashers. you could now see soft to hard bottom transitions. Color made it more clear. GPS to mark you spot you found. Then mapping GPS oh wow! huge advancement. The hunt for spots now went form years to just one day. There was complaing but no banning. Under water cameras were next now you can see rocks in deep water. GPS mark that! Side imaging,now the camera is part of my on board unit. And i can see weeds and rocks away from the boat. It's getting easier.
Now live scope and i can see the weedline clearly and back my boat off accordingly. Electronics has made the hunt way easier. Locatiion is the most critical piece in catching fish. It can be said we are cheating using our electronics in this manner.
It's excepted practice. Knowing that there is fish on the spot we found completes the work. We prove this by getting bit.
Or you can shoot your live scope through the area and confirm there is a fish there but I allready asssumed there was.
Thats why i am fishing this spot.
Edited by kap 8/10/2022 8:46 AM
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Posts: 68
| Yeah, I getting really sick of the "still have to make them bite" deal as well. This is plain and simple harassment of basically sleeping/resting fish that are not in any way, shape or form active in most cases. I guarantee a large percentage of these fish are foul hooked as well. Anyone who condones or stands behind this tech is plain and simple, not a true angler and obviously not great at fishing. For the record, I'm not a fan of SI either. If you're going along and fishing out of one side of the boat, it's BS that you turn around and throw at a mark out the other side just because you see a fish on SI. Do it the old fashioned way and hunt the water. Learn your systems, bait fish and muskies! Don't show up at a lake that you heard may be good and start driving around looking for fish (for many zig zagging in between other fisherman). Learn the darn layout of the land! This is such crap that people are out just making loops. I watched a guy trolling the other day that not exaggerating, made 50 passes over one spot in 20 minutes. Obviously saw this fish on SI. I watch some pretty big names in my area just driving around with clients in their boats until they find a fish to chuck at. That is just not fishing and anyone who will attempt to argue this is plainly speaking, talking out of their butt. I disagree with some people that are saying this stuff is here to stay so get used to it. There are states that are banning cell cameras for hunting and the talk is that there will be more that follow. Not a far off comparison. If we as anglers who love to chase these big green machines and basically any other species, we better get behind each other and fight to get rid of this evil stuff. It will decimate fishing period!!! On the lake I live on, I can go out during early ice when there no snow on the ice on a Monday and there are dozens of fish floating up to the bottom of the ice. People could possibly not be educated, but I feel it's more that they just don't care. This attitude translates to all fishing at all times of year. People feel that these are renewable resources when the fact of the matter is that at least in Wisconsin, the systems will not keep up!!! Shortening limits may help some, but I don't think a lot. Guys aren't going out to get their 5 panfish for a meal and putting the boat on the trailer to head home. They're fishing the day and keeping their 5 so that means more than likely 5 times that are going back with blown up swim bladders. |
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Posts: 2276
Location: Chisholm, MN | Doing it the old fashioned real way is not going to work very well when all the muskies have been caught and some killed buy sharpshooters. That's my take and why I hate the practice so much.
Edited by Kirby Budrow 8/10/2022 10:18 AM
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Posts: 68
| 100% agree Kirby! And it will not take long. Lots of floaters the last few weeks in the Hayward area due to deep hot water fishing and just hot fishing in general. I will bet money that a fair share were sharp shot! And they say less than 10% float, let that sink in. |
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Posts: 591
Location: Duluth | Getting ready to head up to LOTW, I'm sure there will be some spirited discussion about livescope. More curious to see how many boats I see "shootin"
I think it's a lame way to fish. |
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Posts: 1184
| Started out in a old wooden row boat and never caught a Muskie in it, the good news my grandparents had a cottage they rented and it came with a 12 foot row boat if the cottage was not being rented I got to use the 12 aluminium and caught my first Muskie out of that boat. Moved up to different boats over the years now for the time being I have to rent. What I rent depends on where I'm fishing. When I come back and fish by you guy's it's in early June or in most the time in the fall, September or October. I do own a cline finder (temp gage) In the June I'm looking to see if the water has started it's stratifcation process or in fall cheek for turn over. I fish weed beds or rock bars or down the middle of the lake in open water in the top 15 feet. Since I don't take my trips in the summer I've never looked for the thermocline. |
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Posts: 39
| I like the way you fellows think. It is and always will be 'the hunt'. |
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Posts: 8719
| If you've been at this for any length of time, you can read a map. You understand seasonal movements. You know where the fish should be in the lake and what to use to catch them. You know where they're feeding, what they're eating, and the best approach to finding them and getting them to eat. For me, staring at a screen and finding a fish to cast at and harassing it until it eats or you give up doesn't sound like as much fun. The fun part for me is when you throw that perfect cast onto the spot that you know should be holding a fish and then see one coming. Sounds like a cool toy to play with, but... |
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Posts: 32789
Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | cdubs - 8/10/2022 9:12 AM
Yeah, I getting really sick of the "still have to make them bite" deal as well. This is plain and simple harassment of basically sleeping/resting fish that are not in any way, shape or form active in most cases. I guarantee a large percentage of these fish are foul hooked as well. Anyone who condones or stands behind this tech is plain and simple, not a true angler and obviously not great at fishing. For the record, I'm not a fan of SI either. If you're going along and fishing out of one side of the boat, it's BS that you turn around and throw at a mark out the other side just because you see a fish on SI. Do it the old fashioned way and hunt the water. Learn your systems, bait fish and muskies! Don't show up at a lake that you heard may be good and start driving around looking for fish (for many zig zagging in between other fisherman). Learn the darn layout of the land! This is such crap that people are out just making loops. I watched a guy trolling the other day that not exaggerating, made 50 passes over one spot in 20 minutes. Obviously saw this fish on SI. I watch some pretty big names in my area just driving around with clients in their boats until they find a fish to chuck at. That is just not fishing and anyone who will attempt to argue this is plainly speaking, talking out of their butt. I disagree with some people that are saying this stuff is here to stay so get used to it. There are states that are banning cell cameras for hunting and the talk is that there will be more that follow. Not a far off comparison. If we as anglers who love to chase these big green machines and basically any other species, we better get behind each other and fight to get rid of this evil stuff. It will decimate fishing period!!! On the lake I live on, I can go out during early ice when there no snow on the ice on a Monday and there are dozens of fish floating up to the bottom of the ice. People could possibly not be educated, but I feel it's more that they just don't care. This attitude translates to all fishing at all times of year. People feel that these are renewable resources when the fact of the matter is that at least in Wisconsin, the systems will not keep up!!! Shortening limits may help some, but I don't think a lot. Guys aren't going out to get their 5 panfish for a meal and putting the boat on the trailer to head home. They're fishing the day and keeping their 5 so that means more than likely 5 times that are going back with blown up swim bladders.
You know that rule here about reasonable debate? This one is WAY over the line. I get it, you are passionate about the sport and conservation, that's admirable but....
You overstate so much you make the valid points you argue moot with the invalid. I use Mega Live for crappies, and yes, I DO stop fishing pannies when we have what we want for a meal in the livewell, usually 1/2 of 1 person's limit here. Does it happen any faster with the Mega? Honestly, no. Is the average size up for me the season? No again.
Insulting me or anyone else won't endear anyone to your point of view.
For the record, I have never fished crappies in WI deep enough to blow up any bladders, and wouldn't even if they were there. |
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Posts: 359
Location: SW Ohio | I see both sides of the discussion (argument to some). I don't get a lot of time to fish, and fishing solo for 3+ months on our local lake each spring without so much of a glance at a fish can get pretty frustrating year after year. Always trying new places, always the same result. Fast forward to summer and they all come together in the community holes due to temp, rain and the thermocline. I want to know where they go from Oct to June. Our lake is 125'+ in some ares, 60'+ most other places, no weeds but "stump" fields in 30' of water and I can see the baitfish balled up on SI. I would like a chance to use live scan to figure out where the hell they for 9 months. For me, it would be a tool to help point me in the right direction. Expensive but still a tool. Then it is up to me to hunt correctly and more efficiently. |
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Posts: 20179
Location: oswego, il | This technology is more about affordability. Those who can buy it will. Some will sharpshoot but most will cast structure and use it that way. |
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Posts: 1184
| I've had a bad case of Muskie Fever for years. Throwing big baits, countdown baits, Rubberbaits you name it, and I also try to put my baits in some dead water and in places no one else dares to fish. (I know I'm wasting time) I'm trying to find something huge living in pressured water and make them hit. Latest sonar would help my cause. YES. Looking for giant on a sonar screen?
Then I take a rest park on a pier with my ultralight with 16th or 32 oz jig and twister tail a pop or jug of water and catch some perch and I'm happy! Borrow a resort Canoe take it to some frog pond or out of the way river! Fun! Then it's back to looking for a ghost of a fish. |
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Posts: 68
| I wasn't really debating or trying to insult anyone. Calling it as I see it. I continuously watch people pull up crappies from deep water on the Hayward, WI lake that I live on in the fall and winter. In the fall they are pulling them off the bottom in 30-35' of water and in the winter they generally suspend 36-40' over 55'. I fish them out there in the winter occasionally for a meal, but there is no such thing as catch and release. You need to keep what you catch as their eyes are bulged out and they are instantly bleeding once out of the water. My point was that I watch people throw back 1 right after another when they are biting well so they stay under their limit, but can continue to fish. It is quite possible that people like myself who have easy access to these lakes only catch what they want to take home, but on the weekends guys are there before daybreak and don't leave until dark for 10 crappies. Flashers and cameras already make it pretty easy, live scope makes it incredibly simple. It was not directed at anybody in particular. I am quite passionate about all of it and personally feel that this is not a debatable subject when it comes to muskies for sure. I am certain it will undoubtedly cause great harm to fisheries. I truly apologize if I hurt any feelings, just trying to help guys see the big picture and end result. |
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Posts: 39
| Cdubs, where is the insult?
Post was worth the read. Good grief isn't this the place where opinons can be shared without gettting labled?
Toddm. Intersting post. I, however, really think if one has the change they probable have the tech'ie expertise as well and will use it to the fullest. Not bad people just doing what people do.
Today is one thing but how about revision 2. 3. 4 etc. and then what?
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Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | 'Good grief isn't this the place where opinons can be shared without gettting labled?'
Not when there is denigrating or overblown comments posted no. Never has been and never will be for over 20 years, and that's why we are still here. Then there's the very real issue that anything we publish here can be legally interpreted as our opinion. That's the law, and we take it seriously as we have better things to do than get into litigation with other businesses.
I think he gave a great explanation to my questions. The debate will continue, no matter how much that bothers anyone, in a reasonable manner. |
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Posts: 39
| For sure not bothered. Let the discussion continue. Can only be good. |
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Posts: 711
| I knew this one would blow up a bit and it has...that's part of it. No facts to debate here, just opinions because the future has not shown herself yet. Someone here will be right about what happens, it just hasn't yet. |
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Posts: 480
Location: NW WI | Or no one will be right maybe. Think History of Archey in game harvesting, it's still debated, still a hotbutton, and now a s*** storm with air rifles being presented for use in place of rifles and airbows for archery ( it got shot down do to poor education and misinformation and personal bias). I have no experience with it, totally clueless, therefore I lean towards the anti' side of things because of the pro conservation & pro fair chase opinion in me. It's not a "just" opinion because of that, because i simply don't know, i just have your statements to go off of. To those of you that believe your seeing a direct link of its use=any species wasted mortality than I suggest you start log of angling methods you witness and floaters you find on your "home" waters. Than take your yearly log and submit it to your county's DNR fisheries biologist and to your state senate district representative office.
Food for thought though, I can go kill any game or non game at any time, anywhere, with just about anything. Let's call it "poaching" it isn't the vehicle,the location, the compass, the camera, the calls, the life taking device, or my clothing that made it illegal.(granted it all gets seized when caught and guilty). It's the specific combination of acts that's illegal. |
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Posts: 7010
Location: Northwest Chicago Burbs | Just upgraded a 15 year old trolling motor to a Lowrance Ghost. From tapping the foot pedal every 3 seconds to now being able to hit course lock is a dream. I WILL catch more fish because of this.
I put in an autopilot over the winter. Trolling without having to hold the wheel? Already catching more fish because of this.
Upgraded all my units to Lowrance Lives and the detail is amazing. Already catching more fish because of this.
SO to this point, everyone is pretty much cool with what I'd use to go chase fish but.....
If I figure out why the 3 in 1 nose cone isnt working and get Ghost 360, then....not cool?
Or if I get Active Target....VERY not cool?
Just trying to understand where the line is. |
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Posts: 2276
Location: Chisholm, MN | Slamr - 8/15/2022 2:29 PM
Just upgraded a 15 year old trolling motor to a Lowrance Ghost. From tapping the foot pedal every 3 seconds to now being able to hit course lock is a dream. I WILL catch more fish because of this.
I put in an autopilot over the winter. Trolling without having to hold the wheel? Already catching more fish because of this.
Upgraded all my units to Lowrance Lives and the detail is amazing. Already catching more fish because of this.
SO to this point, everyone is pretty much cool with what I'd use to go chase fish but.....
If I figure out why the 3 in 1 nose cone isnt working and get Ghost 360, then....not cool?
Or if I get Active Target....VERY not cool?
Just trying to understand where the line is.
It's more just the driving around and sharp shooting method that live sonar can do that's the problem. I don't see an issue with using it while you are actively standing up and casting. I'm going to give in to this method at this point because I know it's not going anywhere. I chose to not use it in such a way that I would consider cheating but many others will continue to do so and there's nothing I can do about it.
The best thing I can do is go out and fish the way I want to until there are no fish left. Then I guess I'll go bow hunting or something. Haven't figured that one out yet. |
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Location: Northwest Chicago Burbs | Kirby - totally get your point. |
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Posts: 711
| Slamr - 8/15/2022 2:29 PM
Just upgraded a 15 year old trolling motor to a Lowrance Ghost. From tapping the foot pedal every 3 seconds to now being able to hit course lock is a dream. I WILL catch more fish because of this.
I put in an autopilot over the winter. Trolling without having to hold the wheel? Already catching more fish because of this.
Upgraded all my units to Lowrance Lives and the detail is amazing. Already catching more fish because of this.
SO to this point, everyone is pretty much cool with what I'd use to go chase fish but.....
If I figure out why the 3 in 1 nose cone isnt working and get Ghost 360, then....not cool?
Or if I get Active Target....VERY not cool?
Just trying to understand where the line is.
Right now the line is wherever you say it is.
The only limiting regulation has been from tournament groups. The Government isn't going to stop it's use after it granted patents and having known what was being developed. Too much was spent on that premise already.
So really it's up to everyone to use or not to use also to decide what features to use if you decide to use it.
So far its mostly forward looking theory n politics and everyone will be making a choice for themselves.
Do what you want.
I would add that whatever people decide the basic rules of taking care of the resource should still apply. We all have decided that we like catching them. Catching them is not the best thing for the fish but we do have reasonable parameters of handling that if followed do a pretty good job of taking care of them. Some times those parameters mean not using certain tactics (fishing too deep for example). Some times it means not fishing at all.
Probably the most important thing IMO is not losing sight of that aspect of fish management. Stuff is getting more advanced, fishing is really getting easier which actually helps the average guy and hurts the experts. All the "stuff" makes it easier to find viable structures...so they get hit harder resulting in more pressure and fish that are in a negative state more of the time. The experts no longer have all the good stuff to themselves. |
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Posts: 480
Location: NW WI | Kirby, you may wanna pass on the archery, you'll find the same conflicting headache, One hand you could go as far as to make your own bow,arrows,and heads, than spot and stock. Or you could just regularly dump bait and zap one out your bedroom window in your pj's with a modern Xbow. Might I recommend waterfowling or wild turkey?
Not really sure how much pull the patent office has on state legislative matters. I should hope little to none. |
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Location: Chisholm, MN | 7.62xJay - 8/15/2022 11:51 PM
Kirby, you may wanna pass on the archery, you'll find the same conflicting headache, One hand you could go as far as to make your own bow,arrows,and heads, than spot and stock. Or you could just regularly dump bait and zap one out your bedroom window in your pj's with a modern Xbow. Might I recommend waterfowling or wild turkey?
Not really sure how much pull the patent office has on state legislative matters. I should hope little to none.
Well you are not wrong! Deer management here in Northern MN is taking a big turn for the worse as well. The DNR is planning to kill off most of the herd in my area due to a CWD positive deer detected. With hard winters, high tag allotment and wolves - deer hunting will be very difficult here after this season. It's already hard enough. We don't have a lot of turkeys but they do appeal to me. I do duck hunt already and I can see myself getting more into that again as time goes on. I will miss the muskies if it ever gets so bad it's not worth going. |
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Posts: 68
| I truly feel like individual states will have the ability to ban certain technology. As we sit, there are already at least 5 states that have banned cellular trail cameras, many states have made timed feeders illegal and there are 32 states that have restrictions on cross bows. For Wisconsin, this is definitely something I can see making the spring hearing question list if enough people push for it. |
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