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Posts: 711
| So what will the PMTT do about Snipping (or some call it Sharpshooting) for the balance of this or looking ahead to next season.
Either they do nothing or ban it...either way they have to decide. If they decide to ban it does it just need to be off the boat during an event or just turned off ?
Will the wrong choice crush them or just change the dynamics of it all. |
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Posts: 357
| hopefully they leave the rules in place for the season. if nothing else im personally interested to see if anyone can use the technology to crack leeches open water game |
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Posts: 347
Location: Vilas County, WI | Anyone care to copy/paste the PMTT email and vote that went out? |
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Posts: 92
Location: Eau Claire, WI | I'd vote for letting it stay. It's one thing to locate them but you still have to make them bite. I applaud the team that made this tactic work and got the win. |
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Posts: 1023
| I'm not a PMTT fisherman. I do not have any live sonar technology.
But, I do help stock Pewaukee Lake, and I do fish it every now and then.
I don't know, nor do I really care what Tim does with HIS tournament. It seems like he's in a really tough position.
But, I would be very interested to see if sharphooting would be as successful on Pewaukee and the other local lakes during the championship. Or, if the ER Chain results were more of a "one off". The subject is interesting to me and thank you to those who have posted about it. |
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Posts: 32789
Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | It's up to the tournament director/owner. Once the decision is made, it's then up to the anglers whether to fish or not.
If you have direct criticisms of the circuit or owner, take it to them. There will be no bashing the PMTT or any circuit here. |
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Posts: 1220
| So, I have become a pretty regular pistol guy in my old age, pretty much falling in love with certain 1911 style hand-made guns. Guys who wish to compete in competition without all the deadly optics can choose “iron sight” events. I’m guessing musky events may have similar futures. Then again, I also remember when double-tens came along and “changed everything.” Rock and roll and Elvis lasts forever, everything else...not so much! |
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Posts: 68
| Ty Sennett made a pretty interesting comment on the post on the PMTT facebook page. He said that it isn't so much locating them that is the issue, it's the ability to follow a fish for long periods of time harassing it until it bites or as he put it "snags it." He didn't accuse the winning team of snagging, but he said that it would be very easy to do so. Now I wouldn't expect a tournament guy to do so and claim it as a legal catch, but what is the recreational angler doing when sharpshooting? Are they snagging a bunch of fish and ripping them up from the depths?
He also said that he would not fish the circuit next year if it's allowed and doesn't even want to compete in the next event. In my opinion that would be a pretty big name for the circuit to lose.
Edited by cdubs 7/12/2022 12:41 PM
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Posts: 8719
| I doubt many recreational muskie anglers would snag fish intentionally. Where's the fun in that? Nobody really cares what you caught or how big you said it was. There's really no reward other than the satisfaction of knowing you went out there and got one of the #*^@ things to eat today, and maybe if it was a bigger one you get a cool picture...
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Posts: 591
Location: Duluth | Yea, thought the term "saw" fish was watered down when sidescan came out, now it's even worse "saw 8 got 1 to go blah blah livescope blah blah blah."
Honestly it's made the whole musky discourse boring. |
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| While losing a competitor like Ty Sennet would not goood, my guess is the PMTT is more concerned about losing sponsors like Hummingbird or Garmin. Sponsors are the lifeblood of tournaments
Edited by North of 8 7/12/2022 5:00 PM
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Posts: 711
| Potentially does this take tourney fishing out of the dark ages for muskies. Overall not much has changed...guys still go out and stick fish in practice which most walleye and bass guys try to avoid. Figuring out Location without catching them. Sticking them means taking the fish you found out of play for a few days or so in most cases. |
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Posts: 68
| The few guys that I know fishing the PMTT rarely throw a cast anymore pre-fishing and they show up a couple days prior rather than a week early. They basically just drive around charting and marking fish on side imaging. They have been doing that for a few years now. I’m sure some people do still pre-fish for a pattern. |
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Location: Athens, Ohio | I suppose it would be a different contest if everyone was limited to a paper hydrographic map and a brick on a knotted rope? m |
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Posts: 68
| I personally don't have any skin in the game and don't really care what happens in the PMTT. I don't fish it and never have. I do fish some local fundraising tournaments that I'm thinking this strategy is going to trickle down to as there are quite a few PMTT guys that fish the same tournaments. I do enjoy the fact that in a tournament setting, especially the PMTT there will always be a few boats that figure a pattern out. Sometimes its the Twitchers, sometimes the Rubber guys or sometimes the trollers but there are always teams who are successful. This is what in my opinion make tournaments fun and equal. Fast forward to everyone using the live scope and fishing the same way would eliminate a lot of the mystery. It takes away a lot of the biology involved in fishing just because guys have the ability to check out all areas extremely fast and efficiently. Example: It may take me 3 hours to fish a spot to figure out that shallow fish aren't active or they may not even be there. Sharp shooters can comb an entire basin, shoreline and everything in between on a system like Eagle River (which is too small for a tournament like this) in a 3rd of the time prior to even making a cast. A guy doesn't need to know the system, the bait, seasonal movements or any of that. He simply needs to know what a Muskie looks like on his screen. I just don't see the fun or competitiveness in doing this. I understand that you still have to trigger a bite, but if everyone is doing it there are no secrets or strategy. You can follow a fish around on live scope and run your whole tackle box in front of it to see what it will take. You know how far from the boat it is and at what depth. Sure, it's equal if everyone has it but in my eyes it doesn't take the top Muskie guys in the world to do this and you are going to start to see teams that would never waste their entry fee because they knew they couldn't compete start to get into these and do well. Maybe that's what they are looking for. I like the knotted rope idea. |
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Posts: 8
| How is the Eagle River/Three Lakes Chain too small for a PMTT event? ERC is 3928 acres with 68 miles of shoreline and TLC is 7600 acres and 106 miles of shoreline for a total of 11,528 acres and 174 miles of shoreline. There is absolutely no way they could scan that entire system in an hour like you claim.
My two cents, people are saying these live units are too expensive probably have $5000 worth of electronics in their boat. Livescope is $1400 for the unit. Most are just mad that these guys figured it out and hit it big. They are using the tools available to their benefit. This same team didn't catch a single fish on Cave Run using the exact same tactics. |
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Posts: 309
Location: Selkirk, Manitoba | As per the other thread, it is very close to "Musky Catching" and not "Musky Fishing" Ethically it is evolving to shaky ground - essentially just messing with a fish for money and glory with a minimal component of fair chase. There is no connection to what fishing is. The fly fishing crowd has that connection that goes back to the origins of hook and line fishing with rules, regs, ethics and code of conduct on various waters. Musky fishing "was" special given the quest for a fish that follows, is fearless, and huge rare predator. Sharpshooting is not that. Driving around with a screen and teasing fish to bite relentlessly is getting close to pulling trebles for paddlefish. "Still have to get them to bite." I call BS on that one. Muskies are no different than any other fish in that regard - they will bite eventually if you trigger them with the right mix. I have zero interest in the PMTT other than it can set some standard that perhaps can foster a general movement and regulations that bring musky fishing back fair chase, with suggested zones of sanctuary for musky in places where they are vulnerable to high catch per hour fished, and stress from barotrauma, lactic acid buildup from a long fight and heat stress (one can read between the lines as to what I mean here).
Edited by Angling Oracle 7/14/2022 4:36 PM
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| Double 10s - 7/14/2022 3:57 PM
How is the Eagle River/Three Lakes Chain too small for a PMTT event? ERC is 3928 acres with 68 miles of shoreline and TLC is 7600 acres and 106 miles of shoreline for a total of 11,528 acres and 174 miles of shoreline. There is absolutely no way they could scan that entire system in an hour like you claim.
My two cents, people are saying these live units are too expensive probably have $5000 worth of electronics in their boat. Livescope is $1400 for the unit. Most are just mad that these guys figured it out and hit it big. They are using the tools available to their benefit. This same team didn't catch a single fish on Cave Run using the exact same tactics.
Interesting that they got skunked on Cave Run |
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Posts: 359
Location: SW Ohio | Double 10s - 7/14/2022 4:57 PM
How is the Eagle River/Three Lakes Chain too small for a PMTT event? ERC is 3928 acres with 68 miles of shoreline and TLC is 7600 acres and 106 miles of shoreline for a total of 11,528 acres and 174 miles of shoreline. There is absolutely no way they could scan that entire system in an hour like you claim.
My two cents, people are saying these live units are too expensive probably have $5000 worth of electronics in their boat. Livescope is $1400 for the unit. Most are just mad that these guys figured it out and hit it big. They are using the tools available to their benefit. This same team didn't catch a single fish on Cave Run using the exact same tactics.
Nothing to do with live scan but two lakes on TLC were put off-limits within a week of the event (rules change) and Big Stone was out (including that ramp and one other) due to the annual radar boat race. May not take TLC down much but less than anticipated. With the races and two ramps out, we opted to fish ER. Weren't going to chance dropping my friend's ranger 621 off an unfamiliar dirt ramp.
Edited by OH Musky 7/14/2022 5:02 PM
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Posts: 711
| So my thought was for this topic was to be about using the newest tech in tourneys. Assuming they keep it...Certainly if you don't at least have one with a basic knowledge of its use your handicapping yourself to the field. It may not be the best pattern on a given week and you still have to find and pattern the rest of the puzzle (getting them to eat is part of "patterning" them) and in the end time management matters. So if you have it you will still have to figure/gamble/allocate out when it's the best play vs other patterns that take more hands on time. I think guys will still win without it... but it narrows your options a bit in the event. The same would apply to guides. IMO guides with or without will still prosper if they do the rest of it right. Anyways...thoughts from the couch. |
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Posts: 20179
Location: oswego, il | I think people can win without it with some luck on their side. I do think it changes who will and will not compete in the future and at the very least who remains competitive. This will trickle down to small club tournaments and will have an impact there as well. |
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Posts: 2004
| On another note, 9 ft rods allow much longer casts than before... You're targeting fish much further than the pool cues could. I say ban them while we're at it.
Edited by ARmuskyaddict 7/15/2022 2:06 PM
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Location: MN | Double 10s - 7/14/2022 3:57 PM
This same team didn't catch a single fish on Cave Run using the exact same tactics.
Exactly. Some situations it is very useful and some times it’s not. You know…kinda like everything else with fishing.
I know a pro bass guy who used it and it helped him win a tourney. He said it also caused to lose some tourneys because he spent too much time searching instead of fishing and he has since sold the livescope.
If they ban it they should also ban bird 360’s. Maybe side imaging too…..where does it end?
Maybe the PMTT should start a no electronics tournament for all the people who think everything in life needs to be perfectly fair. |
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Posts: 591
Location: Duluth | I thought the appeal of honest competition is a standard set of rules, not ability but rules. |
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Posts: 25
| If certain electronics were banned during the PMTT tournament, they would also need to be banned for prefishing, as most muskies' home range is small during the summer. That would be hard to enforce. I have never fished a PMTT event, but have prefished for other competitors. On large bodies of water, like Leech or Minnetonka, having a group of friends spread out and check out different areas gives an advantage to the PMTT competitor with the most friends.
Greg Ide
PS With my boat having a 4th, 6th, 9th and 10th place in the Hartman Metro Tourney in the last 8 tourneys, luck still beats electronics, says a guy with a 2003 depthfinder. |
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Posts: 177
| "Still have to make them bite" even though we all know location is the single most important factor for success in fishing. Right place right time aka knowing you're actually presenting lures to fish whether thats through electronics or knowing the system and conditions. Put me in the right spot casting to a fish and i dont care about the weather, lure, color, time of day, water temp, moon phase, etc. I'll just try something until the fish bites which is a matter of when, not if. |
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Posts: 32789
Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | ThedockisIN - 7/15/2022 2:31 PM
If certain electronics were banned during the PMTT tournament, they would also need to be banned for prefishing, as most muskies' home range is small during the summer. That would be hard to enforce. I have never fished a PMTT event, but have prefished for other competitors. On large bodies of water, like Leech or Minnetonka, having a group of friends spread out and check out different areas gives an advantage to the PMTT competitor with the most friends.
Greg Ide
PS With my boat having a 4th, 6th, 9th and 10th place in the Hartman Metro Tourney in the last 8 tourneys, luck still beats electronics, says a guy with a 2003 depthfinder.
This. |
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Posts: 1202
Location: E. Tenn | On an outing early this spring, my bow mounted Helix wouldn't power up for some reason, still unknown to me..
I had one of my best days in several years. I credit that to paying more attention to my surroundings, rather than a screen.. |
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Posts: 479
Location: Northern Illinois | I don't have a dog in this fight, but I find it notable when a commentator for the British Open (or Open Championship for you purists) this week lamented how technology has changed the game of golf so much that the Old Course ws totally vulnerable to today's players. It's a familiar refrain. I have empathy for those behind the technology curve, but also believe that fishing conditions change and the next winner may not benefit as much from this technique. My biggest concern is how this technique will encourage pulling fish out from depths that will ultimately kill them. |
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Posts: 68
| It will undoubtedly result in dead fish. No different than what trolling is doing to Northern Wisconsin. Guys ripping fish up off the thermocline going 4 mph. People just can't resist the urge to do it. Pete Maina said, "fishing the thermocline would have a high success rate, but I wouldn't recommend doing it as you will most likely be causing delayed mortality." It's easy fishing and like the Eagle River Chain, most of our lakes have pretty small basins. Same with warm water, people know it's bad but continue to fish it. |
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