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| Message Subject: The New Lake Order | |||
chuckski |
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Posts: 1192 | Ranger the above mentioned lake is it in Wisconsin? I believe in Wisconsin it's against the law to pump water out of the lake. Also I know of a place (In Wisconsin) where they built a home too close to the lake shore and the DNR fined them but did not make them remove it. They just paid the fine. This is on the west side of the lake and the wind blows out of the west most of the time, if they did this on the east side of the lake nature would fix the problem. | ||
| Conservation Guy |
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Posts: 107 | https://www.kare11.com/article/news/local/kare11-sunrise/wake-boat-s... anthony-falls/89-f3b53537-78a0-49b0-a5c1-9363000b5fbb A recent (and timely given this conversation) study at the U of M found that, “The energy of wake surf boats, is three to six times larger than traditional boats, and six to twelve times larger in terms of power.” (not that this is all that surprising, but it does quantify the difference). | ||
| North of 8 |
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Vilas15 - 7/7/2022 11:51 AM North of 8 - 7/6/2022 12:37 PM Maybe if wealthy property owners suffer damage to their water front, they would be willing to put money up for an effort to control wake boats, etc. But ticked off voters is not nearly enough to get things done. Nope they just dump loads of riprap along their entire shoreline (which I'm pretty sure isn't legal?). You can tell the property lines by where the rock starts/stops/changes between lots. No, you can install rip rap but, in most townships, you need a permit. The riparian zone maintenance rules took a huge hit during the Walker administration and the law that did that was drafted and pushed by the then state senator for Oneida and Vilas Counties, now congressman, Tom Tiffany. Since he won his elections by wide margins, I have to assume the residents supported it. He got big donations from developers and realtor associations who wanted smaller lake front size requirements etc. The law also reduced how far back from the lake septic systems had to be. That way, shallower lots that previously could not have a septic, now can have a septic rather than a holding tank. Big win for real estate developers, big loss for lake quality. | |||
| Ranger |
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Posts: 3779 | No, SW MI. I lived on the East Southeast side of the lake. My Chicago neighbors trucked in tons of sand every year we had low water. That and railroad ties to make "personal beaches" before the water came back up. Well, the water came back up, ice tore the railroad ties out (of course) and then big spring waves from the northwest pulled all the sand out and spread it in front of the houses to the south. Houses to the south found the water depth change from 5' to 3' at the ends of their piers. Where they used to tie up their boats, in what was 3' of water, well, that water is now a foot, maybe, and the boat props are in the sand. This took 15 years, but my neighbors NEVER missed a low water level opportunity, they trucked in more and more sand. They didn't care a hoot about their neighbors to the south. And one year my next-door neighbor bought too many railroad ties for the repair, so he extended his private beach for 8' in front of our house. Told us afterward we were welcome to use his beach, why did we have a problem? 18 months and $10,000 in legal fees later, he was ordered by the judge to remove the whole illegal contraption. He agreed at the time but then didn't do anything so a year later we took him back to court where he lost big, paid our legal fees, too, plus a little hit for contempt of court. Then he removed the part that was in front of our house but not the rest. Exhausted, with new problems from our neighbor on the north side, we began to plan to sell the lake house. **** that scene. By the time I sold out a person could walk out on a pier, climb into a pontoon and then step over into the next-door neighbor's pontoon. And keep going. Many riparian owners did not have open water in front of their houses, it was all crammed with boat lifts and boats. All that stuff blocked the waves that typically cleaned our shallow water and kept the bottom firm. At the end of a summer any step in shallow water, where it used to be firm sand/gravel, well, now you sink thru a couple inches of slime/dead weeds/silt. From late fall thru early spring all those wave obstacles are stored up on the shore, so the northwest wind BIG waves move all that soft bottom debris to the south. Down there, maybe 300 yards to the south, and all that crap stacked up. Those folks can't walk out in the shallow water anymore. Well, they can, but they have to wade thru water plus a foot of slimy muck. What used to be firm sand is now slimy muck. It stinks, too, once you suck your foot out of the disgusting. I hear from my old lake friends that my neighbors, now up and down the beach, continue to truck in beach sand. They know it's illegal and they know why but they just don't care. They are fine with their mistakes turning into their southern neighbors' nightmares. Michigan's Governor is a Democrat, but both the Senate and the House are controlled by Republicans. Conservation and regulatory body budgets have been decimated, just like at the federal level. Michigan has thousands of lakes and rivers. There simply aren't enough regularity resources to address mass violations of existing environmental laws. New riparian owners, loaded with cash, think they can buy their way out of any problem as they violate existing laws in place to protect their own interests. | ||
| North of 8 |
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chuckski - 7/7/2022 12:13 PM Ranger the above mentioned lake is it in Wisconsin? I believe in Wisconsin it's against the law to pump water out of the lake. Also I know of a place (In Wisconsin) where they built a home too close to the lake shore and the DNR fined them but did not make them remove it. They just paid the fine. This is on the west side of the lake and the wind blows out of the west most of the time, if they did this on the east side of the lake nature would fix the problem. No in WI, you can pump water from the lake to water your lawn and for a garden. The biggest restriction is that it cannot be used for commercial purposes. I have a small pump that I use to water my lawn, which is small and the closest the grass gets to the lake is 30 feet, plus the landscaper installed a 2' high berm between lawn and the riparian zone area so there is not run off in big storms, simply pools by berm and then slowly seeps down through the sandy soil. The landscape company owner, who grew up about a mile from my house said lake water is superior for watering lawn because it contains micronutrients. I asked, 'is that fancy talk for fish poop'? He laughed and said, yes among other things. The guy was a huge advocate of keeping a 30' buffer between any lawn and the lake, letting wild grass, etc. grow in that area. As a bonus we have ducks nest in the tall grass, although this year we had a fox discover the nest of a mallard with a bunch of young ducklings. Guess her kits needed to eat too. | |||
| esoxaddict |
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Posts: 8719 | We have a guy across the lake from us (where you are only allowed to clear trees within a 30'-0" "viewing corridor") who cleared his entire lot from the house all the way to the shoreline. It looks like a golf course. For the most part you can drive around the lake and not see many houses due to the (now former) 75' setback rule, minimum lot widths, and people being diligent about leaving the shoreline intact. Not this guy. Pretty sure based on how green it is that he fertilizes the hell out of it, too. What can you do when someone has the money where paying the fines just doesn't matter? It's the same thing with the jet-ski no wake, 200 feet from shore stuff. First off there's nobody to enforce it and second of all, what's a couple hundred bucks to someone with more money than God? Edited by esoxaddict 7/7/2022 2:52 PM | ||
| North of 8 |
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esoxaddict - 7/7/2022 2:50 PM We have a guy across the lake from us (where you are only allowed to clear trees within a 30'-0" "viewing corridor") who cleared his entire lot from the house all the way to the shoreline. It looks like a golf course. For the most part you can drive around the lake and not see many houses due to the (now former) 75' setback rule, minimum lot widths, and people being diligent about leaving the shoreline intact. Not this guy. Pretty sure based on how green it is that he fertilizes the hell out of it, too. What can you do when someone has the money where paying the fines just doesn't matter? It's the same thing with the jet-ski no wake, 200 feet from shore stuff. First off there's nobody to enforce it and second of all, what's a couple hundred bucks to someone with more money than God? Not sure what is happening in WI now. At one point, they fined you per tree. Than, for a while they made people plant trees, big ones, on top of the fine. Back about 15+ years ago, one of the brothers of the Michels that is running for governor was building a huge home on Big Green Lake. He told the contractor to cut down the trees that were blocking his view. The contractor told him he would have to pay over $10,000 in fines. His answer was, 'I am paying $1.5 Million for a home, I am not going to sweat $10,000 to get the view I want.' Back then, he just paid the fines. | |||
| Ranger |
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Posts: 3779 | Ok, here's another tale...... 20 years ago, when our lake association began considering hiring an outfit to spray the lake for weeds, I went to an association meeting. I arrived early and while they said the proposed contract would be available, posted, well, it wasn't. So, I asked to review the contract. Being an MBA with training in contract law, it was EASY to spot a huge problem - the 5-year contract included a provision where, upon approval of the contract, the company would "reimburse" $10,000 to the lawyer THAT WORKED FOR THE LAKE ASSOCIATION. Without that lawyer's approval the contract would never be approved. Well, when public input time was announced I was the first person to speak, "Can you please explain why approval of this contract includes $10,000 payable to our Association's legal advisor? Doesn't he work for us? Don't we already pay for his work?" That lawyer stood up and said, "I'll take this question. Sir, there are details in the contract that fully explain your question. I'll sit down with you after this meeting and you'll understand everything." So after the meeting we sat down i a little room and I repeated my question, "Why do you get $10.000 of our money to approve a 5-year $50,000 contract with this weed-killing outfit?" Here's his answer, exact and in full..... "Your mother is a very handsome woman." Then he stood up, smirked and walked out. | ||
| Ranger |
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Posts: 3779 | "....what's a couple hundred bucks to someone with more money than God?" God is always short of cash, ask any church. God can do anything and everything, nothing is beyond his capabilities, but first you gotta pay. Similar to Trump, the billionaire beggar. Edited by Ranger 7/7/2022 5:06 PM | ||
| TCESOX |
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Posts: 1186 | I've been fishing in circus lakes for the last 25+ years, here in the Twin Cities. Didn't start seeing wake boats until about 6 or 7 years ago, though. Only go fishing from about 5 a.m to 10:00 a.m. unless weather is bad, then you can fish anytime. Always liked getting out of town to fish once in a while, just to get away from the din, but getting harder and harder to find those places, as most have basically turned into metro-like lakes. What's made metro fishing harder is the number of people fishing muskies over the last 7 or 8 years. Even without the circus going on at 5 in the morning, you are basically on a carousel of boats going from spot to spot. If you get there late, it's like musical chairs and you don't have a chair. We're starting to see more serious push back against the wake boats, at least. Several good opinion pieces have been in the paper, and there are studies going on. Some legislators are taking up the issue. The water quality on the better fishing lakes, seems to be fairly stable. Not seeing much degradation over the years. The zebes have made some clearer, but that's kind of everywhere. A number of lakes changed way back when milfoil took hold, but that seems to have stabilized over the years, as well, and actually doesn't hurt the fish. Of course some of the lesser lakes have been allowed to degrade a little more than the others. Pretty much the only time I fish after 10:00 a.m., is when I leave town and go to big water places that don't have the recreational activity, or in poor/cold weather conditions. | ||
| esoxaddict |
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Posts: 8719 | You haven't fished until you've fished the Fox Chain. It makes Minocqua look like the fly-in Shield lakes. | ||
| mm3 |
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Posts: 371 Location: Northern Illinois | esoxaddict - 7/7/2022 9:08 PM You haven't fished until you've fished the Fox Chain. It makes Minocqua look like the fly-in Shield lakes. Very true. It can literally be a death situation on the holidays (or even other summer days for that matter). | ||
| chuckski |
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Posts: 1192 | Ya John your right about the pumping water out of the lake for watering I got confused because a relative had a home on the same lake as my grandparents and he was secretive about his water pump because someone sawed off four of his lake front tree's right at eye level and did not want any more vandalism. (this was in the mid 90's) | ||
| ARmuskyaddict |
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Posts: 2005 | Do any of these wakeboats have Livescope? | ||
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