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Posts: 714
| So what was the winning pattern on the Eagle chain ? I suspect open water as they crushed everyone else and that implies doing things WAY different than the rest of the field. |
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| Here is what they told the Rhinelander TV station, Channel 12:
"Really just hit break lines and try to cover a lot of water," said Tim Willems, co-champion.
Another priority for the team was using their resources effectively.
"Yeah we were using out electronics to find bait fish to spend it off the breaks, and we were casing rubber baits out that way," said Nolan Sprengeler, co-champion.
The tournament director was quoted as saying most fish were found in shallow weeds, but sounds like the winners were a little further out. |
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Posts: 82
Location: deep in the slop | There was a post on the fb from a guide in the area regarding his disapproval of how the electronics were used in this tourney. Will be interesting to see if there are any changes in the future. Is it still fishing to utilize tech like live scope and just drive around till you find a fish and cast at it? Kind of takes the fun out of fishing IMO. |
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Posts: 32798
Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | I can't see how a tournament can tell the angler what tech available to anyone they can use. Side imaging has been in use for years now. 360 too. I have all three now, and one still has to catch the fish. It's open to debate if it's 'fair', just like it was when paper graphs were introduced. One thing for sure, no one can uninvent this stuff. |
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| They said they looked for bait fish, you don't need 360 for that. I doubt many PMTT fishermen don't have SI. |
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Posts: 977
| North of 8 - 6/29/2022 5:23 PM
They said they looked for bait fish, you don't need 360 for that. I doubt many PMTT fishermen don't have SI.
I thought the tech being discussed on the fb group was livescope. |
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| Ronix - 6/29/2022 4:37 PM
North of 8 - 6/29/2022 5:23 PM
They said they looked for bait fish, you don't need 360 for that. I doubt many PMTT fishermen don't have SI.
I thought the tech being discussed on the fb group was livescope.
I just went by what the winners told the local TV station. Their quote was that they used their electronics to find baitfish.
Edited by North of 8 6/29/2022 5:03 PM
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Posts: 359
Location: SW Ohio | Not sure what they were targeting as they were pretty tight lipped about the pattern they found. But they utilized the quoted “$60k-70k” electronics on their boat very well. Upwards of 5 livescope transducers and as many as 7-8 graphs is what we heard. But I never got a chance to look at their boat. Some called it “sharpshooting”…. One competitor said they were working the same weed flat so I don’t think they were hitting open water too much. Weed growth seemed down from last year so they may have been targeting fish just outside the weed line.
Almost all baitfish we located we’re far offshore and at least 12-14’ down in over 14’ of water. Nothing shallower on any lake we fished. Mayflies started emerging on Thursday and most of the baitfish we saw were holding just above them. All we managed was a giant walleye and two mid-20s pike. Better than working by a long shot. |
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Posts: 977
| OH Musky - 6/29/2022 8:20 PM
Not sure what they were targeting as they were pretty tight lipped about the pattern they found. But they utilized the quoted “$60k-70k” electronics on their boat very well. Upwards of 5 livescope transducers and as many as 7-8 graphs is what we heard. But I never got a chance to look at their boat. Some called it “sharpshooting”…. One competitor said they were working the same weed flat so I don’t think they were hitting open water too much. Weed growth seemed down from last year so they may have been targeting fish just outside the weed line.
Now that's absurd if true |
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Location: oswego, il | I was told 9 graphs. If true it will be a game changer as far as what teams will need to compete competitively Look at day 1 totals their lead was insurmountable.
Edited by ToddM 6/29/2022 8:47 PM
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| After hearing sworn testimony before congress that attorneys, working for the Trump campaign believed Italian satellites had somehow contacted voting machines to switch votes from Trump to Biden, I guess I wouldn't get too excited about a FB post.
I mean, those attorneys saw it on the internet too. |
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Posts: 68
| It will just make it so the blue collar guys on the tour can't compete and be the demise of yet another tournament circuit. Guys are already spending a great deal on entry fee, lodging, gas and food. Of the hand full of guys I know that fish it and have fished it, can't afford to spend 70K on electronics. I don't see why they can't outlaw certain electronics, they don't allow live bait or big trolling spreads. Unless it would be a sponsor issue.
Edited by cdubs 6/30/2022 8:54 AM
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Location: Vilas County, WI | Yes, the method they used is now commonly being called "Sharpshooting". And they indeed used their live imaging to cruise around, locate fish, then put a bait in the face of said fish. If it eats great, if not, move on. They also lost 3 additional fish, which would have put their total at 13.
But they weren't the only ones sharpshooting either. They just had the most success of the boats doing it.
They run 4 screens at the console, 2 at the bow, 1 in back for a total of 7 on their boat. All Garmins.
So if you're a tourney fisherman, and want to compete, that's the future unfortunately. My tournament days are numbered because 1.) I can't afford all those electronics. and 2.) I can't afford to donate money to the purse when I know I'm behind the 8-Ball from word go. |
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Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | TheShow - 6/30/2022 8:55 AM
Yes, the method they used is now commonly being called "Sharpshooting". And they indeed used their live imaging to cruise around, locate fish, then put a bait in the face of said fish. If it eats great, if not, move on. They also lost 3 additional fish, which would have put their total at 13.
But they weren't the only ones sharpshooting either. They just had the most success of the boats doing it.
They run 4 screens at the console, 2 at the bow, 1 in back for a total of 7 on their boat. All Garmins.
So if you're a tourney fisherman, and want to compete, that's the future unfortunately. My tournament days are numbered because 1.) I can't afford all those electronics. and 2.) I can't afford to donate money to the purse when I know I'm behind the 8-Ball from word go.
Post of the week. |
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Posts: 1192
| The Chain is a very busy place for one. It's a place if you beat the shorelines and fish man made structure (boat houses, docks ECT) you'll catch fish. A friend and guide the late Art Anderson caught and released the same tagged Muskie nine times off the same piece of structure. The Chain is known as action water, but I do know a guide who has caught a rare big fish (for the Chain) by fishing deeper then the average guy. The debate over electronics has been going strong for 30 plus years. Muskies don't like to be fished for with all the tools they don't get let alone very much. The fish are tuned in to what we are doing! Does this affect how they feed? How hard they are to catch ? |
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Location: SE, WI. | Musky fishing , or fishing in general, has gotten to be like playing Video Games…..WEE Fishing….;) Of course they were fishing around baitfish…..how often you find Mr. musky NoT around bait! I heard from a couple teams as to how they used Panoptix to locate and cast to fish. Good for them! I would not classify food as an expense……We Have To Eat;) tourney or Not! This is the WAY of many guided trips today. Drive around …..look for a Musky…..then cast to It. It’s really taking away the element of surprise Out of The Sport. I WON’T do it! I put around 140-200 skis in the boat per season , without the gadgets . I’m fine with That! JD
Edited by jdsplasher 6/30/2022 12:25 PM
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| I wonder where the $60-70 thousand number comes from. Looking on Garmin site, a live scope with transducer, 9" screen is $3,000. 5 of those would be $15,000. Add in $5 grand for accessories. A lot of money, but nowhere near that figure. At one time that would have been incredible, but when folks are dropping six figures on fishing boats, maybe not so much anymore.
The whole concept is interesting but wonder if it is repeatable? |
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Posts: 82
Location: Des Plaines, IL | Only the Amish should be allowed to build houses. Power tools are for cheaters.
Personally I chose to get a cheaper aluminum boat and expensive electronics. Some go the opposite way. Livescope has really helped me, as someone who only gets to fish a couple dozen days a year. Since getting it a few years ago I've doubled my catch rate. Some of that is improvement in other skills, but there are times you clearly identify a fish and it's easier to catch them when you are throwing your bait where they actually are.
What I can say for sure is, I still don't catch them like the people who have more experience and better technique with baits. Now you get those people with these systems, yeah, that's tough to compete against. But, as some said, good for them. |
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Posts: 309
Location: Selkirk, Manitoba | PMTT champs and killers of the musky myth. Musky are not really hard to catch - they are - scratch that - were - hard to find. No more.
When you go hunting for big game (or otherwise) there is amply opportunities to cross the line into unethical territory or give oneself an unfair advantage. Those who are there to challenge themselves never cross that line, and often make it more difficult on themselves than lawfully allowed. Same goes with fishing....
Tournaments are competitions against other people, not pitting oneself against the fish, so the gloves come off as far as making catching the fish a challenge, just about trying to get ahead of the other competitors.
Loved reading the older timer books on chasing muskies, marlin and giant tuna and the sort of existential quests over decades of the folks involved. The River Monsters shows kind of brought a bit of that back. We now have drones and live imaging that are putting an end to the "hard to find" aspect of these quests.
Edited by Angling Oracle 6/30/2022 1:48 PM
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| dbach17 - 6/30/2022 12:36 PM
Only the Amish should be allowed to build houses. Power tools are for cheaters.
Personally I chose to get a cheaper aluminum boat and expensive electronics. Some go the opposite way. Livescope has really helped me, as someone who only gets to fish a couple dozen days a year. Since getting it a few years ago I've doubled my catch rate. Some of that is improvement in other skills, but there are times you clearly identify a fish and it's easier to catch them when you are throwing your bait where they actually are.
What I can say for sure is, I still don't catch them like the people who have more experience and better technique with baits. Now you get those people with these systems, yeah, that's tough to compete against. But, as some said, good for them.
The Amish, depending on their community, do use power tools. My brother in-law has hired them several times to re-hab the century old bard and granary on his retirement property. They understand and are sensitive to old time construction methods, but I know when they put up the metal siding, they used power tools, a self propelled all terrain lift, etc. But, they don't have cars so they needed a ride.
When they got done, his barn and granary are straight and strong. Ready for another hundred years. The guy that did the barn looked at the massive pegged tenon beams, smiled and said, "oh, yeah" . |
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Location: MN | I have a livescope. I bought it for ice fishing. I bought a pole for the boat but I’ve only used it to find weeds and to fish for other types of fish prior to musky season. Driving around staring at the graph until you find a musky to cast at looks so boring to me. I think that’d take most of the enjoyment out of it. Lots of guys do it with good success on a lake I fish on but I can’t get myself to do it.
Imagine paying for a guide and only taking a few dozen casts or less all day. I gotta imagine there are lots of people who have been pretty disappointed finding out they hired a livescope guide.
Honestly sometimes it is disheartening to have it for ice fishing. I’ve gone to lakes and never dropped down a line. I suppose I saved some time but it does take a lot of the mystery and surprise out of fishing. |
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Location: oswego, il | North of 8 - 6/30/2022 2:13 PM
dbach17 - 6/30/2022 12:36 PM
Only the Amish should be allowed to build houses. Power tools are for cheaters.
Personally I chose to get a cheaper aluminum boat and expensive electronics. Some go the opposite way. Livescope has really helped me, as someone who only gets to fish a couple dozen days a year. Since getting it a few years ago I've doubled my catch rate. Some of that is improvement in other skills, but there are times you clearly identify a fish and it's easier to catch them when you are throwing your bait where they actually are.
What I can say for sure is, I still don't catch them like the people who have more experience and better technique with baits. Now you get those people with these systems, yeah, that's tough to compete against. But, as some said, good for them.
The Amish, depending on their community, do use power tools. My brother in-law has hired them several times to re-hab the century old bard and granary on his retirement property. They understand and are sensitive to old time construction methods, but I know when they put up the metal siding, they used power tools, a self propelled all terrain lift, etc. But, they don't have cars so they needed a ride.
When they got done, his barn and granary are straight and strong. Ready for another hundred years. The guy that did the barn looked at the massive pegged tenon beams, smiled and said, "oh, yeah" .
I'd much rather have an Amish built home than the cheap garbage homes being built today. |
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Posts: 57
| In a time when the amount of screen time is a hot topic maybe fishing could use a little less also , lest we have forgotten why we go in the first place ????? |
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Posts: 2005
| Good thing they won over $23,000 to pay for all those gadgets... Fish how you like and where you like. It's fishing, not tournaments. |
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Location: NW WI | Cheap garbage home? Amish quality? Scopes? No Scopes? Electronics? No electronics?
Oh Please.
1. Have you been to a Hardware in the last 2 years? Ain't nothing cheap about it, and waaay more folks are building bigger than ever up here.
2. Amish quality, well sorry that's just a prejudiced statement. I've worked with 5 different communities. And they're no different than any modern builder. Some need to stick to furniture making, others are decent. I will say though the small singular items they make like cabinets,chairs,tables are all A+. But anything with tight tolerance levels or forward planning required seems to surpass em, basic building items like squares, levels, plumbobs, straight lines, measuring tapes aren't used much. They're all about astetics of their specific role without a care for the bigger picture. And yes they can use power tools, just can't own them. Some even "have" workshops like any other outfit would.
3. Didn't we all just whine about this subject a few months back? Electronics are here to stay. Hold yourself to your own moral standard. No different than some of us choosing not to troll or use live bait. I'm not going to knock the guys that do or do not, I choose my standard for me and thats it. If you don't wanna play ball with em, than don't. But to enter the game and whine because you lost even though you knew what you could be competing against is ridiculous. That being said, banning is not the answer. Classing is.
Edited by 7.62xJay 6/30/2022 10:15 PM
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| I wouldn't call it whining at all. I don't think most of the guys talking here were even in the tournament. It's just great discussion!
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Posts: 714
| Well this has taken a turn and has a life of it's own. I have a few thoughts on the subject to throw out:
Competition history in sport is usually about pushing limits and applying new tech when that can help the participants. Generally that filters down to the masses over time. Fishing competitions have been no different with many new innovations in gear and technique developed/introduced during competitive events. Certainly limits have also been applied as new tech in almost all sporting events has changed the game...Aluminum bats, hotter golf balls, lighter auto parts, steroids, faster boats etc etc etc. As a competitor one should generally be pushing these (allowed) limits IF the driving desire is to finish on top. Organizations may/can/do eventually limit some tech or break things down into different classes to ensure a competitive playing field of different levels or may ban some innovations altogether to create a level playing field between a group of contestants. As individuals simply pursuing a sport there is always going to be a personal balance achieved that could involve budgets, desire to participate in a certain manner and a host of other factors. So what is considered right by one person may be viewed as unethical or just silly by another...for example scopes on high tech black powder rifles...crossbows and other tools used in hunting that change the pursuit and success ratios of that sport all have their detractors and endorsers.
IMO tournament fishing is different than just going fishing and if the stakes are high enough you NEED to push the envelopes of tactics and tech to get winning results. You may end up doing things that really are not "fun" if you want to win....I call it "fishing ugly" which to me means applying tactics that just get it done vs being fun to do. If the stakes are low then by all means you can fish in whatever style suits you from an entertainment standpoint and if you do well so be it, if not you did it your way and be happy doing that. That said if big money is on the line it makes sense to take advantage of everything you can to win (within the rules of course).
Sharp Shooting per say does not interest me much when fishing recreationally BUT if I was fishing big money events that allowed that aspect of the sport I would certainly feel handicapped if I didn't have that card in my arsenal to play. Right now that is an aspect of the sport that is evolving and also showing itself to be a bit of a controversy in the sport. I have friends that have been fishing that way up on the big V for half a dozen years now and they do well. It's just not that appealing to me...they love it, playing a video game of sorts. Guiding in that fashion is another subject...again not for me but if there is good communication between client and guide about the plans for the day and everyone is on board why not. That comes down to good communication between parties on both sides to eliminate potential disappointment which is a whole nother subject re: guiding and hiring one though.
In the end it's the individuals choice how to play the game ( again within the rules or regulations) when we go out. Different strokes for different folks but don't take your eye off of the competition scene because many new innovations spring from the minds of those at the top and some of those things can enhance how you enjoy your version of the sport and help you gain a level of success that you may not have otherwise achieved.
Edited by bturg 7/1/2022 9:23 AM
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Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | What bturg said.
I live in the tech world and love tinkering, even had a couple of concepts turned into new products over the years. My first sonar as a kid was a Heathkit my Uncle John built for me. OFM pioneered live streaming tournaments and events (we were the first), GPS tracking boats (first again), and live-streamed (wirecast by Sour Squirrel Studios) to an Apple device when it was supposed to be not possible. I hand-built the first big-screen portable HD underwater camera. I tested a successful live stream using 4 cameras, three underwater and one above with a Black Magic switcher last winter. It actually worked from a flip-over shelter. We'll be doing that with MarCums this coming year. I'm always searching out tech that speeds up my content creation work. I've always owned the new stuff, and most of the time it was worth the expense.
Almost every innovation in the fishing electronics category has stirred controversy, and here we are again. Purists will be upset, and new purists will evolve from the new tech. Adjustments may be made in management, at least I hope so. Assuming that, I am all-in, and quite aware of the controversy.
Those are crappies and bluegills on a crib we found on the Mega 360 on the Humminbird Mega Live Imaging. The smaller crappies were suspended to the front of the crib about 5' from the boat, and the larger were down inside. The first drop I made I put in front of the largest mark, and it came up and smoked the jig. I was impressed. My Mega Live unit showed up on the front porch today, I just hooked t up and adjusted it on the network.
Oh yeah, one last point. I shoot a Barnett crossbow, scoped. It's impressive. My right shoulder is shot from muskie fishing, so a compound and I don't get along. I had to get a permit originally with a Doc's statement, now anyone can choose (and pay) to hunt with one here.
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| sworrall - 7/1/2022 9:46 AM
What bturg said.
I live in the tech world and love tinkering, even had a couple of concepts turned into new products over the years. My first sonar as a kid was a Heathkit my Uncle John built for me. OFM pioneered live streaming tournaments and events (we were the first), GPS tracking boats (first again), and live-streamed (wirecast by Sour Squirrel Studios) to an Apple device when it was supposed to be not possible. I hand-built the first big-screen HD underwater camera. I tested a successful live stream using 4 cameras, three underwater and one above with a Black Magic switcher last winter. It actually worked from a flip-over shelter. We'll be doing that with MarCums this coming year. I'm always searching out tech that speeds up my content creation work. I've always owned the new stuff, and most of the time it was worth the expense.
Almost every innovation in the fishing electronics category has stirred controversy, and here we are again. Purists will be upset, and new purists will evolve from the new tech. Adjustments may be made in management, at least I hope so. Assuming that, I am all-in, and quite aware of the controversy.
"Sour Squirrel Studios". Ok, that has to be one of the greatest media names ever! |
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Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | North of 8 - 7/1/2022 9:48 AM
sworrall - 7/1/2022 9:46 AM
What bturg said.
I live in the tech world and love tinkering, even had a couple of concepts turned into new products over the years. My first sonar as a kid was a Heathkit my Uncle John built for me. OFM pioneered live streaming tournaments and events (we were the first), GPS tracking boats (first again), and live-streamed (wirecast by Sour Squirrel Studios) to an Apple device when it was supposed to be not possible. I hand-built the first big-screen HD underwater camera. (burned up a couple in the process, i am not as good with wiring as I should be)
I tested a successful live stream using 4 cameras, three underwater and one above with a Black Magic switcher last winter. It actually worked from a flip-over shelter, deploying an annoying amount of HDMI cable. We'll be doing that with MarCums this coming year, and sometime soon will live stream the 'Birds and some fish catching from the Lund multi-camera. I'm always searching out tech that speeds up my content creation work or allows for cooler stuff to be done. I've always owned the new stuff, and most of the time it was worth the expense.
Almost every innovation in the fishing electronics category has stirred controversy, and here we are again. Purists will be upset, and new purists will evolve from the new tech. Adjustments may be made in fisheries management, at least I hope so. Assuming that, I am all-in, and quite aware of the controversy.
"Sour Squirrel Studios". Ok, that has to be one of the greatest media names ever!
Yup, Dusty moved on from there to producing The Next Bite. Not sure what he's up to now but it'll be cutting edge, one of the most brilliant people I have ever met. It was during an Anglers Insight Marketing event Zach and Carlos figured out the stream-to-an-iPad or phone deal with Dusty working his magic on his overclocked Apple. When those three started talking together cool things happened. Zach designed the map overlay for GPS tracking adjusted for the curvature of the Earth on the fly. I took pictures, shot/edited video, and wrote PR stuff, all ridiculously easy stuff compared to their work. |
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