|
|
Posts: 3784
| I didn't understand that North of 8 was talking about trail cam pics. Thought he was talking about pics of poached deer. Sorry 'bout that, 8. |
|
| |
|
Posts: 480
Location: Northern Illinois | 7.62xJay - 4/2/2022 11:52 AM
sworrall - 4/2/2022 10:49 AM
Look at Kentucky, Ohio, etc.
If there's NR, protect the fish through the spawn. If not they are literally there for us to CPR for as many years as they survive from stocking to death. The shorter the season, the fewer are caught, and the lower the mortality. Reasonable conservation, absolutely, if we want trophy opportunity.
So why do we want trophy opportunities? To take pictures and show off the accomplishment. To enjoy the sport and the journey through it. I'll resist with everything I have anyone trying to screw that up no matter what the motivation. Catching the #*^@ed things is the whole idea. So we should do what we do by implementing the best conservation practices so others can catch and release the fish we caught and released and we can grow and improve the sport. The new term for hunting and fishing for some is 'blood sports'. Some folks don't like.
It's a sport fish. Take out the 'sport', and it's just a fish.
As to 'breaking the law', we all are good at figuring out where the penalties begin and push it right to the edge. Speed limits reduce human deaths (proven) and they are widely ignored. Everyone knows how much they can push any regulation or law, and human nature makes sure we will.
See I understand this point, simplified it's- Less time to hook one=less death of the fish. Quite simple formula yes. I'm not against this conservation practice.
I'm just struggling to understand why it's perfectly okay for what you could call "intentional accidental angling" which may have a higher mortality rate vs "proper angling" I suppose. Than you couple that with the fact that it's legal to angle muskies in water temperatures that have been shown to have a higher mortality rate on the fish annnd idk guys, I guess I'm just scratching my head on this one.
I think that the premise of "intentional accidental angling" being ok is not true. I would say most people are not ok with it just as a way to get around the law. It's just hard to enforce. |
|
| |
|
Posts: 330
Location: SE Wisc | RLSea - 4/2/2022 11:21 PM
7.62xJay - 4/2/2022 11:52 AM
sworrall - 4/2/2022 10:49 AM
Look at Kentucky, Ohio, etc.
If there's NR, protect the fish through the spawn. If not they are literally there for us to CPR for as many years as they survive from stocking to death. The shorter the season, the fewer are caught, and the lower the mortality. Reasonable conservation, absolutely, if we want trophy opportunity.
So why do we want trophy opportunities? To take pictures and show off the accomplishment. To enjoy the sport and the journey through it. I'll resist with everything I have anyone trying to screw that up no matter what the motivation. Catching the #*^@ed things is the whole idea. So we should do what we do by implementing the best conservation practices so others can catch and release the fish we caught and released and we can grow and improve the sport. The new term for hunting and fishing for some is 'blood sports'. Some folks don't like.
It's a sport fish. Take out the 'sport', and it's just a fish.
As to 'breaking the law', we all are good at figuring out where the penalties begin and push it right to the edge. Speed limits reduce human deaths (proven) and they are widely ignored. Everyone knows how much they can push any regulation or law, and human nature makes sure we will.
See I understand this point, simplified it's- Less time to hook one=less death of the fish. Quite simple formula yes. I'm not against this conservation practice.
I'm just struggling to understand why it's perfectly okay for what you could call "intentional accidental angling" which may have a higher mortality rate vs "proper angling" I suppose. Than you couple that with the fact that it's legal to angle muskies in water temperatures that have been shown to have a higher mortality rate on the fish annnd idk guys, I guess I'm just scratching my head on this one.
I think that the premise of "intentional accidental angling" being ok is not true. I would say most people are not ok with it just as a way to get around the law. It's just hard to enforce.
I believe he was being sarcastic.
We live in an imperfect world, and that means making laws and having guidelines that will benefit most people/things/fish, most of the time. It’s never perfect nor can it be , and someone will always complain but that’s ok! |
|
| |
|
Posts: 120
Location: Twin Cities Metro | For me, if the fish at least go through the motions of spawning, I leave them alone. I don't want to spook them off natural spawning habitat, nor do I want to disturb that habitat at the exact time they are trying to use it. I don't care if there has been an assessment that natural reproduction is ineffective. The various D'sNR are typically trying to improve spawning habitat even when natural reproduction isn't contributing much to the population. If we want natural reproduction, we should encourage that.
MN has a closed season until the first Saturday in June. It makes me wince when I start seeing MI Lunge Log entries starting in May coming out of MN lakes. Presumably these folks were pike fishing with those muskie twitch baits they reported as their bait. *sigh* Pretty audacious to put them in the log when the rules indicate the entry has to be a legal catch. If people really are all fired up to see muskies before the season starts, they should try volunteering with the DNR to help them do their population assessments. While such assessments may disturb the fish as much or more than angling, they serve a legitimate scientific purpose related to the fishery and its management.
Edited by RobertK 4/5/2022 9:18 AM
|
|
| |
|
Posts: 490
Location: NW WI | RobertK - 4/5/2022 8:53 AM
For me, if the fish at least go through the motions of spawning, I leave them alone. I don't want to spook them off natural spawning habitat, nor do I want to disturb that habitat at the exact time they are trying to use it. I don't care if there has been an assessment that natural reproduction is ineffective. The various D'sNR are typically trying to improve spawning habitat even when natural reproduction isn't contributing much to the population. If we want natural reproduction, we should encourage that.
MN has a closed season until the first Saturday in June. It makes me wince when I start seeing MI Lunge Log entries starting in May coming out of MN lakes. Presumably these folks were pike fishing with those muskie twitch baits they reported as their bait. *sigh* Pretty audacious to put them in the log when the rules indicate the entry has to be a legal catch. If people really are all fired up to see muskies before the season starts, they should try volunteering with the DNR to help them do their population assessments. While such assessments may disturb the fish as much or more than angling, they serve a legitimate scientific purpose related to the fishery and its management.
See that's the type of behavior I'm talking about.
My opinions stem from biased concern that will have to be explained.
When I was young I was introduced to duck hunting. Now, here in N Wisconsin you have 1-3 weekends of comfortable weather to hunt in. After that, when the temperatures drop, its nothing but the hardcores out freezing for a few birds. When I was younger and even now I thought it was so cool to bump into fellow hunters at 4-5am in freezing temperatures and have quick, friendly, professional conversations with them. Basic stuff, introduce yourself,shake hands, discuss where eachother is hunting for safetys sake, any other tips and advice etc. Sometimes, if it was a 1 spot waterway, we'd hunt together with total strangers as if they were your own friends. All these guys were +35 years of age, with exception father&son combos. Very recently duck stamp sales have been rapidly increasing, and its showing its face. Within the last few years I've seen way more "teens to twenties" out waterfowling, if I had to guess I'd say about 70% increase from what I've personally seen. They're easily identified by the hunting brand stickers and decals plastered on their trucks, mudmotor boats covered in lights, aggressive and wreckless boat driving, either they don't want to talk at all or their standoffish and rude, waaaaaaay over aggressive calling technique, frequent sky blasting (slang for shooting out of practical lethal range), little to no effort exerted to retrieve a crippled or lost bird. Also, in alot of early goose season field hunting parties Ive been on, less than half want to take their birds home, myself and others end up risking being overbagged so that the meat doesn't go to waste.(Jeez I sound like a grumpy old man, I assure you I'm not).
The few theories I can come up with for this recent uptick in young waterfowlers is: 1-waterfowling vs bow hunting, waterfowling stimulates short attention span.
2-Its popular to post, you see your friends all camoed and painted up with a spread from a successful hunt and you wanna join in.
3-Media, Whether it's Duck Dynasty or any of the loads of popular youtubers, exposure and entertainment level is waaaaaaay higher than its ever been. Therefore people will be influenced to try it.
You also see a similar morale decent(my opinion)in bow hunting. What used to be a special season for traditionalists with an appreciation for the difficulty of the pursuit has now been turned onto its head and has become about "farming techniques",baits,attractants, pop ups and box blinds,and Crossbows that make the most modern compound seem obsolete.
Back to Musky Talk.
With those sports the goal is to kill your game, so really nothing I whined about is relevant right?
But okay now take those attitudes, the influences, the lack of education, and lack of respect and carry it over to Musky Angling.
When I was at the Wausau Show this year it seemed to me that the most popular booth was Chaos with Brian Hoffes of YouTubes Angling Anarchy. Watching and listening in on some of the conversations he was having with fans was pretty darn funny, I'd imagine that was a cringey taste of what Comic-con or a StarWars convention would be like. Thats a bit of evidence for the following statements.
I'm scared gentlemen. If you don't think that people are out there targeting out of season with lighter equipment to be "legal" in order to get views or to cure their itch? Sorry, your dead wrong.
Like some of you said, "there's always someone bending the rules". I'm scared someone's is going to become alot of "darn near everyones".
So what do we do? Policing ourselves only works for the responsible for which laws don't need to be written for.
Do you specify regs in a manner that makes fining easier?
Do you open game fishing later with your musky opener? All water or just some?
Do you go with the safe heroin site route and open up musky on certain less desirable waters with regular opener to allow em to get their fix?
Do you force an educational program to get a fishing license?
I don't have the answer, all just 1a.m. thoughts.
Call me paranoid, but please keep a vigilant eye as time and trends move. For what I do know is that cementing your feet into "what is" because it worked for "what was" is good way to miss the buss headed to "what's next". Us humans have a tendency of screwing up nature because we waited too long.
And EssoxAddict: yeah, I sort of did, half of June,most of July,most of August. I spent most of last year exploring new muskyless water.
|
|
| |
|
Posts: 433
| 7.62xJay - 4/6/2022 1:46 AM
Back to Musky Talk.
With those sports the goal is to kill your game, so really nothing I whined about is relevant right?
But okay now take those attitudes, the influences, the lack of education, and lack of respect and carry it over to Musky Angling.
When I was at the Wausau Show this year it seemed to me that the most popular booth was Chaos with Brian Hoffes of YouTubes Angling Anarchy. Watching and listening in on some of the conversations he was having with fans was pretty darn funny, I'd imagine that was a cringey taste of what Comic-con or a StarWars convention would be like. Thats a bit of evidence for the following statements.
I'm scared gentlemen. If you don't think that people are out there targeting out of season with lighter equipment to be "legal" in order to get views or to cure their itch? Sorry, your dead wrong.
Like some of you said, "there's always someone bending the rules". I'm scared someone's is going to become alot of "darn near everyones".
So what do we do? Policing ourselves only works for the responsible for which laws don't need to be written for.
Do you specify regs in a manner that makes fining easier?
Do you open game fishing later with your musky opener? All water or just some?
Do you go with the safe heroin site route and open up musky on certain less desirable waters with regular opener to allow em to get their fix?
Do you force an educational program to get a fishing license?
I don't have the answer, all just 1a.m. thoughts.
Call me paranoid, but please keep a vigilant eye as time and trends move. For what I do know is that cementing your feet into "what is" because it worked for "what was" is good way to miss the buss headed to "what's next". Us humans have a tendency of screwing up nature because we waited too long.
Interesting take Jay, good food for thought.
One thing to add - should new regs be developed a tightening of existing regs be put in place be prepared for a boatload of folks peeing and moaning about how their rights/liberties/freedoms are being infringed upon.
I don't know when it began, but there seems to be a mindset that a lot of people don't care what's best for the resource if interferes with their feelings (or instagram posts). Go figure. |
|
| |
|
Posts: 20180
Location: oswego, il | RF_Musky - 4/6/2022 7:21 AM
7.62xJay - 4/6/2022 1:46 AM
Back to Musky Talk.
With those sports the goal is to kill your game, so really nothing I whined about is relevant right?
But okay now take those attitudes, the influences, the lack of education, and lack of respect and carry it over to Musky Angling.
When I was at the Wausau Show this year it seemed to me that the most popular booth was Chaos with Brian Hoffes of YouTubes Angling Anarchy. Watching and listening in on some of the conversations he was having with fans was pretty darn funny, I'd imagine that was a cringey taste of what Comic-con or a StarWars convention would be like. Thats a bit of evidence for the following statements.
I'm scared gentlemen. If you don't think that people are out there targeting out of season with lighter equipment to be "legal" in order to get views or to cure their itch? Sorry, your dead wrong.
Like some of you said, "there's always someone bending the rules". I'm scared someone's is going to become alot of "darn near everyones".
So what do we do? Policing ourselves only works for the responsible for which laws don't need to be written for.
Do you specify regs in a manner that makes fining easier?
Do you open game fishing later with your musky opener? All water or just some?
Do you go with the safe heroin site route and open up musky on certain less desirable waters with regular opener to allow em to get their fix?
Do you force an educational program to get a fishing license?
I don't have the answer, all just 1a.m. thoughts.
Call me paranoid, but please keep a vigilant eye as time and trends move. For what I do know is that cementing your feet into "what is" because it worked for "what was" is good way to miss the buss headed to "what's next". Us humans have a tendency of screwing up nature because we waited too long.
Interesting take Jay, good food for thought.
One thing to add - should new regs be developed a tightening of existing regs be put in place be prepared for a boatload of folks peeing and moaning about how their rights/liberties/freedoms are being infringed upon.
I don't know when it began, but there seems to be a mindset that a lot of people don't care what's best for the resource if interferes with their feelings (or instagram posts ). Go figure.
The instant validation social media gives a person. Post a pic get some likes. If you point out fish mishandling even in the most respectful way you will get pummeled. It's quite common to see a fish laying on the ground next to a person's foot covered in dirt or grass or a toothy critter held in a cringing manner of as stated above. I made this meme as a joke.
Edited by ToddM 4/6/2022 8:31 AM
(2019-05-20-09-47-18_1647458775714_1649251728257.jpg)
Attachments
----------------
 2019-05-20-09-47-18_1647458775714_1649251728257.jpg (189KB - 116 downloads)
|
|
| |
|
Posts: 518
Location: WI | 7.62xJay - 4/6/2022 1:46 AM
Do you specify regs in a manner that makes fining easier?
Do you open game fishing later with your musky opener? All water or just some?
Do you go with the safe heroin site route and open up musky on certain less desirable waters with regular opener to allow em to get their fix?
Do you force an educational program to get a fishing license?
I don't have the answer, all just 1a.m. thoughts.
These seem like great ideas to get non musky anglers who are indifferent to musky fisheries to support those who are against them. Education and self policing are the answer. If the musky community wants their muskies to be protected during the spawn, incidental catches and targeting out of season are going to happen. If you want more regulations that complicate things for those who don’t fish for muskies you aren’t going to have a whole lot of support when you want stocking programs expanded or even maintained. |
|
| |
|
Posts: 115
| my opinion does not matter whatsoever. |
|
| |
|
Posts: 490
Location: NW WI | curdmudgeon - 4/6/2022 10:12 AM
my opinion does not matter whatsoever.
Sure it does, all opinions matter, even if they conflict someone else's. Let's hear it. Remember, important discussions can't be had without conflict, and that's okay. Any given post I might make a fool of myself, but if people come in and explain why it was foolish, than I can at least reflect on what I said and possibly see things their way.
Take Raftmans response for example:
He's totally right, wasn't something I had considered.
Yet, some food for thought is that there's multiple styles of public land refuge programs for
the management of single or multiple species.
Also, some water systems go on lockdown for sturgeon spawn. |
|
| |
|
Posts: 1204
Location: Walker, MN | Here on the Rainy River we have a catch and release sturgeon season, a short season where you can harvest one with a tag, and a 6-week late-May and June closed season. If you catch one when you are walleye fishing in June, it's common practice to take a quick picture...pretty sure that it's perfectly legal.
The problem is, the definition of a "quick muskie pic" varies drastically. |
|
| |
|
Posts: 32800
Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | 'I'm scared gentlemen. If you don't think that people are out there targeting out of season with lighter equipment to be "legal" in order to get views or to cure their itch? Sorry, your dead wrong.
Like some of you said, "there's always someone bending the rules". I'm scared someone's is going to become alot of "darn near everyones".
So what do we do? Policing ourselves only works for the responsible for which laws don't need to be written for.
Do you specify regs in a manner that makes fining easier?
Do you open game fishing later with your musky opener? All water or just some?
Do you go with the safe heroin site route and open up musky on certain less desirable waters with regular opener to allow em to get their fix?
Do you force an educational program to get a fishing license?
I don't have the answer, all just 1a.m. thoughts.
Call me paranoid, but please keep a vigilant eye as time and trends move. For what I do know is that cementing your feet into "what is" because it worked for "what was" is good way to miss the buss headed to "what's next". Us humans have a tendency of screwing up nature because we waited too long.'
Some folks will bend the law and some will break it, but nothing even close to what was the wholesale slaughter that used to be will ever happen again. Muskies Inc has seen to that instilling a culture of CPR that is quite strong, even outside of the membership. I see more pressure to conserve the resource on social than the opposite, do something untoward and suffer the wrath, and I guarantee I spend more time there perhaps than all the rest of the folks here combined.
Our sport is in far more danger from a few of those who do not fish muskies at all than from all that do. |
|
| |
|
Posts: 20180
Location: oswego, il | Definitely a wrath for wrongdoing on musky related social media sites but not general ones. Constructive criticism comes with the same wrath as a poorly handled or kept musky would on a musky page. |
|
| |
|
Posts: 596
Location: Duluth | Musky fishing is like pornography, you know it when you see it.
I have no qualms about reporting someone, but as we know its hard for CO's to be in multiple places at once. |
|
| |
|
Posts: 8721
| sworrall - 4/6/2022 9:45 PM
[...]
Our sport is in far more danger from a few of those who do not fish muskies at all than from all that do.
Yes. WHY?
Here's how I see it:
1. Those very folks who are anti-muskie are misinformed. They don't know that muskies typically eat the stuff you don't want in the lake anyway. They don't know that WE are the ones eating all the walleyes/crappies/whatever. They don't know that muskies don't eat dogs and children. Many of then don't want to know, and there's not much we can do about them. But the others? Those are people who like fishing. We like fishing. That's a greater bond than what we fish for.
2. Did you ever wonder if those folks don't want muskies in their lakes because they don't want muskie fisherman on their lakes? And maybe it has something to do with our attitude towards them and their preferred (non esox) quarry? All other fish are bait...
I don't worry about out of season anglers nearly as much as I worry about the one who kills every muskie he catches, partly because the guys who fish for them are a-holes, and Joe at the bar tells the same story after a few too many about how he can't limit out as easily as he once did because the muskies are eating him out his Friday night fish fry. |
|
| |
|
Posts: 3518
Location: north central wisconsin | IAJustin - 3/31/2022 10:00 AM
Probably better to catch them around spawn when water is in the 50's vs catching them in July when water temps are 75+...if you are looking at long term survival
Exactly. |
|
| |
|
Posts: 3518
Location: north central wisconsin | 7.62xJay - 4/6/2022 1:46 AM
Call me paranoid, but please keep a vigilant eye as time and trends move. For what I do know is that cementing your feet into "what is" because it worked for "what was" is good way to miss the buss headed to "what's next". Us humans have a tendency of screwing up nature because we waited too long.
Watching what has become a complete clinic on disrespect to fish/resource, and other humans with regards to the spring walleye bite on several of my favorite, once pristine rivers, you couldn't be more right. That some of this behavior has been complete cause/effect based on recent tv/internet shows highlighting specific areas once void of fishermen(some of this void based on safety, which has been cast aside for sake of stardom and mug shot with limit of egg laden females), it will only continue. The fact that most folks have bigger faster safer and comfortable means of travel to and from sporting, is both blessing and curse. I'd suspect your duck marsh would've erupted in calls to Art Bell in 1979 had a fully LED/mud motor rigged Havoc exploded from the cattails onto the rowboat scene. |
|
| |
|
Posts: 32800
Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | Muskie season on the CC Spring online Q this year. |
|
| |
|
Posts: 20180
Location: oswego, il | I've seen on FB the darkhouse spearers would love to open up northern Wisconsin to their kill mentality. Who knows that might be a voting item in the future.
Edited by ToddM 4/13/2022 7:20 PM
|
|
| |
|
Posts: 8721
| Extending the season later into the fall certainly would allow muskies to be taken through the ice. And last time I checked you can't successfully release a fish once you put a spear through it.
|
|
| |
|
Posts: 8721
| There are a lot of good questions in the survey. If you haven't taken it already, I'd suggest you do so. Don't know if it helps much, but it sure can't hurt. |
|
| |
