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Posts: 57
| What is everyone’s take on all the pictures of musky caught out of season. Usually by walleye fisherman in rivers. Not pointing to a specific fishery . But I see a ton of mishandling and just bad practices in general . How do you feel about it? |
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Posts: 112
| Not a fan at all. It's one thing if they're walleye anglers who aren't too familiar with muskies and best handling practices, or a younger angler who is just too excited or isn't aware of the season. Then I can cut them some slack.
But frankly I'm not a fan when it's a multispecies angler who I know is familiar with the season and fragility of muskies, and when they do it to boast on social media. I don't mean to sound negative or anything. But these folks know better, and are jepordizing an incidental catch out of season by keeping it out of water too long, measuring, and taking photos just to promote themselves on social media. In my opinion out of season muskies warrant an immediate, in-water release with no measurement/weighing/photos. And in some states (as well Canadian provinces), an 'immediate release' for out of season fish is legally interpreted as no photos, no weighing, no measuring. Others should follow suit.
Edited by joh10891 3/28/2022 8:33 PM
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Posts: 20180
Location: oswego, il | It is what it is. You can't expect everyone to be educated and experienced in handling musky or have the tools, net ect to handle them. I don't have an issue with a picture a prize catch is just that. We don't live in a perfect world.
I belong to a bunch of local FB fishing pages to promote our M.I. events and accomplishments. If I had a dollar for every bass, pike ect laying in and covered with dirt or grass next to the person's shoe, I could retire early. |
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Posts: 8721
| Logic would tell the otherwise uneducated angler that a fish that "eats everything in the lake" could survive the apocalypse, and I suspect most don't even know what a muskie is or that there IS a closed season. |
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Posts: 57
| Here’s the thing with handling, in most states and provinces it’s illegal to remove the fish from water being that it’s a closed season. So I offer another question then, would you let a pencil pike flip and flop in the bottom of the boat for 65 seconds while you decide what to do with it? In the modern times we now live in it’s at once amazing and appalling that the common angler knows so little of fish handling or regulations. Like joh10891 mentioned, maybe it truly is to further one’s social standing to the masses , and if so we’ve entered into another show of disrespect of fisheries and all they provide. |
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Posts: 267
Location: Central Pennsylvania | Sucks to see. We have an open season for esox in Pennsylvania, however, musky (especially tigers) are constantly by-catch for bass and walleye guys and this usually ends in the fudds either conking em with a stick because "they eat all the walleyes", or them being thrown around and rolling in the mud. Although, We cannot fault the uneducated for being uneducated. |
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Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | It's our job to respectfully educate. |
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Location: Duluth | Tough to watch, but if you have the chance to witness in person you can usually educate/change a mind.
"Catch these often?" is usually a good way to start. |
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Posts: 1196
| I got bitten with fishing bug in the early 70's thanks to a 3 pound Pike and a cane pole. The Pike got away! I was with my dad and my grandpa we were looking for Bluegills on a little river in the North woods of Wisconsin. My dad caught a 20 pound Muskie on this river in 1950. Yes this river has Muskie and Pike and if we caught one I'm sure we only had needle nose. No one carried hook cutters or jaw spreaders back then. There are lakes here in Colorado that have Tiger's or Northern along with Trout I'm sure any Trout fishermen hooks a Tiger or a Pike that lure is going to stay in that fish. (bite off, break off or afraid to take lure out of fish) I know people who hooked Tigers and just cut the line! |
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Posts: 4080
Location: Elko - Lake Vermilion | unintentional catches happen... a lot.
It's the intentional target of any Fish or game that is out of season that pizzes me off.
Same as Poaching. |
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| I think most people will respond positively if you approach them respectfully as Steve suggests. And yes, folks fishing for panfish or walleyes are not going to have the kind of net or release tools that musky fishermen carry. Why would they? I have hook cutters and heavy pliers in the boat while pursuing panfish from but that is because I have a carrier that stays in the boat. When I fish for crappie from a kayak, needle nose and forceps. No hook cutter, no giant net. |
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Posts: 112
| True. Education very important. When I was young, way before I ever fished muskie, I definitely didn't have the best handling practices simply because I wasn't aware. So I don't have any heartburn over that type of stuff. Can't blame em. Being polite and respectfully engaging them to teach is important.
But I guess the part that bugs me is when ambassadors to the sport- like musky guides who also guide spring walleye or musky social media folks who also fish walleye will take out-of-season fish out of water, weight them, measure, and get a bunch of photos to promote their social media presence. I guess I just hold them to a higher standard, because like I said, I would hope that they'd be ambassadors to the sport and promote conservation.
And again, I don't mean to sound confrontational or call anyone out. But I've just seen it happen too many times, every single year. I just think out-of-season handling practices/ethics is something that should be talked about. We all know about stuff like high water temps, post-release mortality due to excessive handling, keeping fish in the water if it's bleeding and limiting handling, etc. But ethics of handling out-of-season fish must've somehow mostly flown under the radar.
Edited by joh10891 3/29/2022 1:33 PM
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Location: North Central IL USA | joh10891 - 3/28/2022 6:49 PM
In my opinion out of season muskies warrant an immediate, in-water release with no measurement/weighing/photos. .
THIS!! |
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| Before throwing stones about folks taking out of season musky photos, think about all the folks that take pictures of 48" fish on Green Bay and at Lake of the Woods. Those are not legal fish either. Both have a 54" limit.
I understand no one wants to see a rare resource abused, just pointing out that there a lot of fish which would not be legal to keep measured, photographed by musky fishermen as well. |
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Posts: 112
| I get what you're saying. But photographing a fish that isn’t legal to harvest is a very different story than photographing a fish that isn’t even legal to fish for |
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| joh10891 - 3/29/2022 2:52 PM
I get what you're saying. But photographing a fish that isn’t legal to harvest is a very different story than photographing a fish that isn’t even legal to fish for
To a degree, but if you are taking a fish you know is not legal out of the lake, measuring it and taking photos, is that any less risk to the fish? Season or no season, the trauma to the fish is the same, isn't it? Following the logic in some of the posts, those fishermen on Green Bay and Lake of the Woods should be water releasing all fish clearly under 54". There are fish such as sturgeon where that is required. |
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Posts: 166
| North of 8 - 3/29/2022 3:43 PM
Before throwing stones about folks taking out of season musky photos, think about all the folks that take pictures of 48" fish on Green Bay and at Lake of the Woods. Those are not legal fish either. Both have a 54" limit.
I understand no one wants to see a rare resource abused, just pointing out that there a lot of fish which would not be legal to keep measured, photographed by musky fishermen as well.
Why are you comparing an out of season fish with an out of slot fish? Two different things. So no, the guy taking a pic of an out of slot but IN season fish is ok in my books. The guy taking a pic of any OOS fish is not. |
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| BillM - 3/29/2022 4:10 PM
North of 8 - 3/29/2022 3:43 PM
Before throwing stones about folks taking out of season musky photos, think about all the folks that take pictures of 48" fish on Green Bay and at Lake of the Woods. Those are not legal fish either. Both have a 54" limit.
I understand no one wants to see a rare resource abused, just pointing out that there a lot of fish which would not be legal to keep measured, photographed by musky fishermen as well.
Why are you comparing an out of season fish with an out of slot fish? Two different things. So no, the guy taking a pic of an out of slot but IN season fish is ok in my books. The guy taking a pic of any OOS fish is not.
Why does one cause harm and the other not? That is my point. Both are fish you cannot legally take. |
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Posts: 166
| North of 8 - 3/29/2022 5:20 PM
BillM - 3/29/2022 4:10 PM
North of 8 - 3/29/2022 3:43 PM
Before throwing stones about folks taking out of season musky photos, think about all the folks that take pictures of 48" fish on Green Bay and at Lake of the Woods. Those are not legal fish either. Both have a 54" limit.
I understand no one wants to see a rare resource abused, just pointing out that there a lot of fish which would not be legal to keep measured, photographed by musky fishermen as well.
Why are you comparing an out of season fish with an out of slot fish? Two different things. So no, the guy taking a pic of an out of slot but IN season fish is ok in my books. The guy taking a pic of any OOS fish is not.
Why does one cause harm and the other not? That is my point. Both are fish you cannot legally take.
So you're not going to answer my question then? One is a legally angled and caught fish the other is not. I'm not too sure why you're trying to make the comparison between the two. Apples/oranges. |
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| BillM - 3/29/2022 4:30 PM
North of 8 - 3/29/2022 5:20 PM
BillM - 3/29/2022 4:10 PM
North of 8 - 3/29/2022 3:43 PM
Before throwing stones about folks taking out of season musky photos, think about all the folks that take pictures of 48" fish on Green Bay and at Lake of the Woods. Those are not legal fish either. Both have a 54" limit.
I understand no one wants to see a rare resource abused, just pointing out that there a lot of fish which would not be legal to keep measured, photographed by musky fishermen as well.
Why are you comparing an out of season fish with an out of slot fish? Two different things. So no, the guy taking a pic of an out of slot but IN season fish is ok in my books. The guy taking a pic of any OOS fish is not.
Why does one cause harm and the other not? That is my point. Both are fish you cannot legally take.
So you're not going to answer my question then? One is a legally angled and caught fish the other is not. I'm not too sure why you're trying to make the comparison between the two. Apples/oranges.
I did answer your question. The earlier posts were about the harm done to the fish. The assumption in those posts was that it was accidental catch, not deliberate catching of fish that are out of season. I certainly don't agree with deliberately targeting fish out of season. My post was with regard to harm done to fish.
I don't personally measure fish I judge to be under 40" nor do I take a picture unless someone asks me to. Those accidental catches are no more illegal than undersized fish. It is the possession that would be illegal. |
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Posts: 89
| joh10891 - 3/29/2022 1:07 PM
But I guess the part that bugs me is when ambassadors to the sport- like musky guides who also guide spring walleye or musky social media folks who also fish walleye will take out-of-season fish out of water, weight them, measure, and get a bunch of photos to promote their social media presence. I guess I just hold them to a higher standard, because like I said, I would hope that they'd be ambassadors to the sport and promote conservation.
This. I am still irritated by a NWO camp that did this last year and the picture then made the rounds through Musky Insider |
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Posts: 32800
Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | ' One is a legally angled and caught fish the other is not. I'm not too sure why you're trying to make the comparison between the two. Apples/oranges.'
Unless the angler is specifically targeting muskies it's an incidental catch. If specifically targeting muskies in the closed season there's no debate, it's illegal to fish them and the angler should be reported to the warden.
Incidental out-of-season catch or short fish: A fish that MUST be released no matter what is out of the water getting photographed. The point that if a fish is undersized it should be water released is based upon the fact it's an illegal fish to harvest and a conservative approach should be taken and is not different from immediately water releasing any out-of-season fish. Apples/apples.
N WI has a C&R season for largemouth now and of course, pike after the general opener. I'll be fishing them with spinnerbaits and heavy bass gear. If I catch a musky doing that I'll release it in the water and get a picture of that. |
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Posts: 3784
| **** it. Let them take a pic and let it go.
If you guys are all hot on protecting the fish you can start walking the talk by quitting jerking big hooks in their faces. You can be sure a musky is 100% safe if you don't hook it in the first place. Pull a Shep; sell your boat and gear and buy a late 60's Camero SS.
Edited by Ranger 3/29/2022 5:52 PM
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Posts: 57
| While I agree that education is the best way to curb mishandling, I tend not to fish the busy walleye rivers that also contain musky. We all know, or at least should have an idea, that some mortality from fishing certainly happens. But excessive and down right awful handling processes goes for all fish . With the influx of a large number of new fisher people nowadays the one thing the internet’s lacking is proper fish handling talk. Like the most simple one there is if you take a fish out of water hood your breath, once you struggle figure the fish is at the least doing the same. |
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Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | Ranger - 3/29/2022 5:50 PM
**** it. Let them take a pic and let it go.
If you guys are all hot on protecting the fish you can start walking the talk by quitting jerking big hooks in their faces. You can be sure a musky is 100% safe if you don't hook it in the first place. Pull a Shep; sell your boat and gear and buy a late 60's Camero SS.
No. |
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Posts: 112
| Not to derail the focus. But there's an interesting similar situation with bass fishing. With the popularity of swimbait fisherman for bass the past few years, I've seen a lot of instances of folks fishing 6"-10" hardbaits and soft plastics for bass in trophy muskie lakes before muskie season. Often times with no leader! Interestingly certain muskie leaders have caught on for bass swimbaiters who are concerned about their expensive baits bit off by pike/muskie. But for example I've seen folks using 10" soft plastics before muskie season on Mille Lacs, and "incidentally" landing a muskie, or breaking off that large bait due to no leader. Ha at that point they're targeting muskie moreso than bass, in my opinion. I swimbait fish for bass too, but never on lakes with muskies. |
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Posts: 3784
| sworrall - 3/29/2022 7:21 PM
Ranger - 3/29/2022 5:50 PM
**** it. Let them take a pic and let it go.
If you guys are all hot on protecting the fish you can start walking the talk by quitting jerking big hooks in their faces. You can be sure a musky is 100% safe if you don't hook it in the first place. Pull a Shep; sell your boat and gear and buy a late 60's Camero SS.
No.
Oh my, yes. All these guys preaching about ensuring the welfare of the fish, yet they hurt the fish every time they hook it and then drag it by its face back to the boat. I guess there are levels of respect I don't understand.
Edited by Ranger 3/29/2022 7:38 PM
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Posts: 166
| North of 8 - 3/29/2022 5:43 PM
BillM - 3/29/2022 4:30 PM
North of 8 - 3/29/2022 5:20 PM
BillM - 3/29/2022 4:10 PM
North of 8 - 3/29/2022 3:43 PM
Before throwing stones about folks taking out of season musky photos, think about all the folks that take pictures of 48" fish on Green Bay and at Lake of the Woods. Those are not legal fish either. Both have a 54" limit.
I understand no one wants to see a rare resource abused, just pointing out that there a lot of fish which would not be legal to keep measured, photographed by musky fishermen as well.
Why are you comparing an out of season fish with an out of slot fish? Two different things. So no, the guy taking a pic of an out of slot but IN season fish is ok in my books. The guy taking a pic of any OOS fish is not.
Why does one cause harm and the other not? That is my point. Both are fish you cannot legally take.
So you're not going to answer my question then? One is a legally angled and caught fish the other is not. I'm not too sure why you're trying to make the comparison between the two. Apples/oranges.
I did answer your question. The earlier posts were about the harm done to the fish. The assumption in those posts was that it was accidental catch, not deliberate catching of fish that are out of season. I certainly don't agree with deliberately targeting fish out of season. My post was with regard to harm done to fish.
I don't personally measure fish I judge to be under 40" nor do I take a picture unless someone asks me to. Those accidental catches are no more illegal than undersized fish. It is the possession that would be illegal.
Fair enough, point taken. However it's not illegal to catch a fish out of the slot, it is illegal to catch a fish that's OOS whether that's an incidental catch or not. Now will a CO charge you for it? Doubtful.. Could he? Probably. Kinda like catching bass during pike opener, sometimes I need to move spots because the bass just won't stop.. I guess there's a grey area here that comes down to personal opinion opposed to hard facts. In Ontario I can angle for a muskie with a Conservation license that has a possession limit of 0, which means even if I meet the 54in min requirement (Depending on FMZ) that fish has to go back. So I guess the question is, what's the difference between catching a fish that's under the slot and a conservation license with a possession limit of 0? With your definition, it's illegal.
Ranger makes a good point, if we're that worried about the fish we wouldn't be burying giant trebles into their brains.
Edited by BillM 3/29/2022 8:22 PM
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Posts: 1208
Location: E. Tenn | I've gone through the Wisconsin fishing regs, and although the word "possession" is mentioned frequently, there's no legaleze defining it..
Anybody?? and a link to said definition means a whole lot more than an opinion, or an interpretation thereof..
Thanks..
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Posts: 166
| Maybe possession means roped up on a stringer or in a livewell. Even up here you'll get different answers depending on what CO you're talking to. There was a CO who worked around southern Georgian Bay who was a hard ass. He's passed, I haven't met the new guy yet lol. |
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