|
|
Posts: 371
Location: Northern Illinois | First things first:
I always use a leader when seriously Muskie fishing.
I realize it's a no-brainer to use a leader when using larger baits.
However, when I downsize (ex. Husky Jerk, Bomber long A) the leader can effect the lure action. Sometimes I'll downsize like that for get-what-you-get fishing (but still hoping for a muskie).
So, percentage wise only. What do you think the percentage of bite offs (Muskie) would be if not using a leader? |
|
| |
|
Posts: 1209
| Depending on you the fish and the bait. But if the bait is a bulldog it would be close to 100% in my opinion, a spinnerbait close to 0% and a bucktail 10%; jerkbaits 40% topwater 50% |
|
| |
|
| I always use a leader but I wonder about this. I was getting rods ready for yesterday's northern WI opener, including cutting off leaders, cutting a little line and tying new knots. I was using a sharp scissors I got from the doctor's office after they were used on some stitches in my hand. Braid is not all that easy to cut. Musky teeth are quite different than a scissors, would they really shear through braid that easily? I don't know the answer. Joe Bucher wrote how in the spring he sometimes does a wacky worm presentation for musky in the shallows, just using a split ring, no leader. |
|
| |
|
Posts: 32800
Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | I always use a leader when throwing anything Pike or Muskies are likely to hit. The first few weeks of walleye I throw a creature or spinnerbait a lot. The first concern is killing muskies by leaving a lure hooked up, and the second is wanting to hang on to the lure for a while. In early Spring I use an 18# seven strand Violent Strike. No even a tiny amount of difference running cranks, jigs, or spinnerbaits. I think the muskie I caught yesterday was on a 130# Violent Strike seven strand and a small spinnerbait. Lost a nice one on a head shake too.
I use superline a lot for crappies up to 15 pound and can tell you pike and muskies snip through that instantly. |
|
| |
|
Posts: 2280
Location: Chisholm, MN | Yes, it would depend 100% on your presentation. A whacky rig worm like mentioned above might not require a leader if you are using spinning gear and heavy braid. That way you can play the fish according to your gear. I’ve seen and heard of some people tying direct to a walk the dog topwater and hawgwobbler s for better action. I think that’s wrong. There is no way that you get that much better action from tying direct to make the risk worth it. A bait with multiple treble hooks would be dangerous. I would worry more about the line getting caught on hooks and breaking than I would the fish’s teeth.
Really there is no need to every not use a leader. Just don’t do it. Killing a fish is not worth it. |
|
| |
|
Posts: 100
Location: Ireland | Guess it all depends if you can live with leaving a lure in a fish.
Restricting its ability to feed and inevitably a long slow death !!
Smaller lures = smaller hooks , much more chance of these hooks finding their way to the back of the mouth and sealing the gullet .
Leader for me every time !
Pat . |
|
| |
|
| I always use a leader but if I didn't, a walk the dog would be the last bait to go without.
On more the one occasion, have had a musky hit a wtd close to the boat and while it felt like they had the lure, I could see they actually they had the solid wire leader in their teeth, shaking the lure. Leader would be bent so badly it could not be used. |
|
| |
|
Posts: 157
Location: West Central WI | This post reminds me of all the things we do to preserve muskies - avoid playing them to exhaustion, not fishing in hot water, proper net, good release tools, hook cutter, limited time out of the water, and proper hold. I've never seen using a good leader on this list, but it should be. I don't know anybody who thinks losing a bait lodged in a muskie's mouth/throat won't jeopardize that fish's odds of surviving. Accidents do happen but we do all we can to prevent them and leaders should be part of that effort. A hungry/stimulated muskie isn't going to eat only because you got an extra few percent of bait action. Use one to preserve the fish. At least there are several good leader choices out there to work baits with the best action you can get. |
|
| |
|
Posts: 20180
Location: oswego, il | I just bout some lightweight 20 and 30lb titanium tieable leader material for small baits. Should be light enough not to affect the action. |
|
| |
|
Posts: 682
Location: Sycamore, IL | There's no reason not to use a leader. Lots of options for smaller baits available that won't disrupt the action of the lure. It just takes one bite off to make this clear...
I used to throw a lot of husky jerks in the spring for pike and muskies. I caught many with no issue. However, I still remember the fish that bit through 50lb braid with ease. Have used a leader ever since. Good luck this season! |
|
| |
|
Posts: 1209
| Ok so here is a thought for you, with 80/100/120/130/150 fluorocarbon leaders you can buy the ball bearing swivel type, cut the ball bearing off leaving a welded ring to tie to, I do this with 12" and 18" for bass glidebairs and some smalle muskie jerkbaits, the fluorocarbon does sink but not much and has very minimal effect once it is green of the ball bearing.
I like crimped leaders for the streamlined look and feel as well as I have had no failure yet. Maybe some leader companies should save me the expensive ball bearing swivel and just make them with a small welder ring and a snap on the other end. |
|
| |
|
Posts: 20180
Location: oswego, il | I am pretty sure you can buy them with just the welded ring. I make all mine that I am not throwing a bucktail that way. |
|
| |
|
Posts: 371
Location: Northern Illinois | I guess the right answer is any percentage greater than 0 is not acceptable as there is a chance of harming the fish.
I do have these Berkley 30 lb leaders that I have been using for the smaller baits. I'll probably continue to use them and keep my eye out for some of the other leaders you have suggested.
Attachments
----------------
 leader2.jpg (114KB - 291 downloads)
|
|
| |
|
Posts: 392
Location: KY | Last fall I had a musky bite off an 8" WTD top water with an 8" steel leader. As soon as the rod loaded up the line went slack. After hanging my head for about 30 seconds my son saw the lure floating 50 feet from the boat. We retrieved the lure with about an inch of 60# PP on the leader. Lucky! |
|
| |
|
Posts: 1971
| No reason to buy packaged leaders, get some light single strand wire and do a haywire twist, for 5 dollars you'll be able to make 100 leaders.. your husky jerks (and such) will run much better without a snap and swivel ....I do this in front of flies too... |
|
| |
|
Posts: 1196
| Made some smaller leaders this past winter , Smaller swivels , shorter, and a #4 welded ring. (or no swivel at all) |
|
| |
|
Posts: 745
| Tiable wire double uni knotted to your braid...all you need. Can fish small husky jerks, X Raps or what ever with no impact on action. The cost of the wire is less than one lost jerk bait... |
|
| |
|
Posts: 371
Location: Northern Illinois | Mojo1269 - 6/7/2021 4:33 PM
Tiable wire double uni knotted to your braid...all you need. Can fish small husky jerks, X Raps or what ever with no impact on action. The cost of the wire is less than one lost jerk bait...
Is it then dedicated to that bait, or do you have a slip ring or snap to interchange? Sounds like a great idea, if you have time for a pic that would be great. I think I am gonna have to roll my own for some of these smaller baits. |
|
| |
|
Posts: 745
| Just tie to a VMC crankbait snap. I do this all the time on Mille Lacs when the pike and Small Mouth are sharing similar structure.... |
|
| |
|
Posts: 200
Location: Milwaukee, WI | In my opinion always use a leader, one bite off is one too many. Also have to remember when they roll you’ve got the gill rakers to contend with gill plates. No real disadvantage to having a leader. So many types so many situations, there are specific leaders that will work better with certain lures. |
|
| |
|
Posts: 371
Location: Northern Illinois | IAJustin - 6/1/2021 11:08 AM
No reason to buy packaged leaders, get some light single strand wire and do a haywire twist, for 5 dollars you'll be able to make 100 leaders.. your husky jerks (and such) will run much better without a snap and swivel ....I do this in front of flies too...
I'm gonna get some AFW Tooth Proof wire and make my own. I'm thinking about using the #105 test for the light baits like husky jerks, small bombers, maybe even 5" cranes. What do you think? |
|
| |
|
Posts: 2237
Location: SE, WI. | mm3 - 2/19/2022 6:27 PM IAJustin - 6/1/2021 11:08 AM No reason to buy packaged leaders, get some light single strand wire and do a haywire twist, for 5 dollars you'll be able to make 100 leaders.. your husky jerks (and such) will run much better without a snap and swivel ....I do this in front of flies too... I'm gonna get some AFW Tooth Proof wire and make my own. I'm thinking about using the #105 test for the light baits like husky jerks, small bombers, maybe even 5" cranes. What do you think? Get the 7X7 , AFW, 40 lb test, coated. Very flexible, perfect for small baits. Easily Tied! JD |
|
| |
|
Posts: 371
Location: Northern Illinois | jdsplasher - 2/19/2022 6:42 PM
mm3 - 2/19/2022 6:27 PM IAJustin - 6/1/2021 11:08 AM No reason to buy packaged leaders, get some light single strand wire and do a haywire twist, for 5 dollars you'll be able to make 100 leaders.. your husky jerks (and such) will run much better without a snap and swivel ....I do this in front of flies too... I'm gonna get some AFW Tooth Proof wire and make my own. I'm thinking about using the #105 test for the light baits like husky jerks, small bombers, maybe even 5" cranes. What do you think? Get the 7X7 , 40 lb test, coated. Very flexible, perfect for small baits. Easily Tied! JD
How would I tie the 7 strand? You have a pic? The added appeal of the solid wire is this simple twist (see attached).
Attachments
----------------
steel_leader_twist.jpg (109KB - 137 downloads)
|
|
| |
|
Posts: 2237
Location: SE, WI. | Jig Loop knot, With a smudge of super glue W/ the 7X7. 7X7 is 49 strand! Single strand can be used for gliders, bucktail and some topwaters. JD |
|
| |
|
Posts: 371
Location: Northern Illinois | jdsplasher - 2/19/2022 10:05 PM
Jig Loop knot, With a smudge of super glue W/ the 7X7. 7X7 is 49 strand! Single strand can be used for gliders, bucktail and some topwaters. JD
Good advice! |
|
| |
|
Posts: 20180
Location: oswego, il | I had success with the titanium leaders I made last year. I crimped them the recommend way and on Amazon I found very tiny stainless solid rings. I used the smallest stay-loc snap. This worked very well for bass sized baits. I even used it in Canada for walleye and pike. No affect on bass sized baits. |
|
| |
|
Posts: 206
Location: Minneapolis, Minnesota | One thing I have used for years when fishing pike in the spring with little baits is 15 or 30lbs terminator braided titanium. That is easily the most flexible leader I have ever found, feels exactly same in your hand as 50-65lbs braid. Cut the snap off and replace with a better one or a split ring and your in business. That light of a leader is necessary IMO when using bass sized jerkbaits that are pretty effected by bigger leaders. I am planning on trying the 50 or 75lbs ones this year when twitching cranks |
|
| |
|
Posts: 480
Location: Northern Illinois | I have used these titanium leaders the last few years with good results, specifically the 30# and 100# test stranded, very light and flexible. http://www.jacksonlures.com/Commerce2/FinnLeaders.htm |
|
| |
|
Posts: 490
Location: NW WI | Ogandrews - 2/26/2022 8:43 AM
One thing I have used for years when fishing pike in the spring with little baits is 15 or 30lbs terminator braided titanium. That is easily the most flexible leader I have ever found, feels exactly same in your hand as 50-65lbs braid. Cut the snap off and replace with a better one or a split ring and your in business. That light of a leader is necessary IMO when using bass sized jerkbaits that are pretty effected by bigger leaders. I am planning on trying the 50 or 75lbs ones this year when twitching cranks
I'LL SECOND THAT! |
|
| |
|
Posts: 371
Location: Northern Illinois | Ogandrews - 2/26/2022 8:43 AM
One thing I have used for years when fishing pike in the spring with little baits is 15 or 30lbs terminator braided titanium. That is easily the most flexible leader I have ever found, feels exactly same in your hand as 50-65lbs braid. Cut the snap off and replace with a better one or a split ring and your in business. That light of a leader is necessary IMO when using bass sized jerkbaits that are pretty effected by bigger leaders. I am planning on trying the 50 or 75lbs ones this year when twitching cranks
I ordered some from Jackson Lures. I'm gonna try them. |
|
| |
