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Posts: 5
| I DID'T KNOW THEY STILL DO THIS? CHRIS |
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Posts: 32958
Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | I have not seen the show you are referring to. The spearing issue with Native Americans has been sealed by the US Supremem Court, so that is that. Some areas of the country allow spearing pike in the winter, but to my knowledge, not muskies. |
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| According to the Tribal contract, Native Americans, here in Wisconsin are allowed to spear until they meet thier quota, They are allowed to Spear for Musky through the ice until that quota is met. |
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Posts: 1294
Location: Stevens Point, Wi. | There are no quotas nor tallies kept of winter speared fish, and there in lies the rub! According to past negotiations between the tribes and our government representatives, spearing totals were not considered to be detrimental through the ice. I wonder what they had in their peace pipes? |
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Posts: 333
Location: menasha wi 54952 | If anyone wants to check out this sad "Treaty Right" just head to Roberts Lake in Forest County. Go to the public boatlanding off McArthur Trail on ANY weekend. In boatlanding bay you can observe these "Fisherman". They will either be set up in little huts or a teepee. They will have their "catch" laying on the ice and as you drive by them they will come out and make sure to give you a friendly hand "gesture" as they give their prize a kick so you can see it flop. Makes you sick doesnt it?
Mike |
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| yes, they're are quotas, but the numbers are kept by the tribes and not the DNR. |
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Posts: 1906
Location: Oconto Falls, WI | Very sad indeed mreiter! This use to be a good musky lake with some quality fish, but that has changed with the winter spearing as of late. |
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Posts: 87
Location: Wauwatosa, WI | Little Star lake and Alder lake in the manitowish chain was raped so bad that they had to have a catch and release this year on all walleyes. The musky fishing also was way down this year in those two lakes. They just don't care about the resourse. I'm sure those two lakes will be raped again this year. |
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| Why don't they issue tags, like they do for deer? Then they could limit the harvest and if DNR found them with more than they have permits for they would be subject to heft fines. Those casinos have deep pockets! |
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Posts: 663
| Originally written by Parman99 on 2003-12-19 12:27 PM
Little Star lake and Alder lake in the manitowish chain was raped so bad that they had to have a catch and release this year on all walleyes. The musky fishing also was way down this year in those two lakes. They just don't care about the resourse. I'm sure those two lakes will be raped again this year.
Not trying to throw gas on the fire but my understanding of the situation is that the overharvest of those two lakes was the result of an administrative screw-up at the DNR that issued more permits than they were supposed to. The tribe later tried to make up for the goof by offering to add suplemental stock from the LDF hatchery but the damage was done and since the numbers exceeded the acceptable limit the DNR was forced by their own regulations to apply a zero bag limit this year.
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Posts: 87
Location: Wauwatosa, WI | Pete
if that is the case, I stand corrected, but thats not what I heard from the locals. anyway I couldn't fish on my own lake. |
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Location: Hayward, Wisconsin | sworrall:
Unless something has changed that I am not aware of, Michigan allows winter spearing of muskies.
Muskie regards,
Larry Ramsell
www.larryramsell.com |
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Posts: 663
| Originally written by Parman99 on 2003-12-19 4:37 PM
Pete
if that is the case, I stand corrected, but thats not what I heard from the locals. anyway I couldn't fish on my own lake.
Yes, it was an unfortunate situation but I don't think in this case the tribal folks can take all the blame. It was pretty well documented in the local papers at the time. Apparently the clerk/s who issues the permits inadvertantly made the error and as a result the numbers taken exceeded the alloted quantity. Maybe your local friends just gave you the short version. I followed the story pretty closely because my son is a major in wilderness management with an emphasis on conflict resolution and was sending articles to him at school.
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Posts: 663
| If I were better at computer stuff I'd post a link but for anyone interested you can find out the basics of the Alder/Little Star situation by going to vilascountynewsreview.com click on the outdoor section and in the search box enter Alder Lake. Among the articles listed you will see a title "DNR Stuck With Few Alternatives On Overharvest". The article states that the tribes harvested 128 walleyes from the lake and the alloted quantity was 117. Maybe someone with more computer savvy can look it up and post a link. Hope this helps clear the air. |
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Posts: 941
Location: Freedom, WI | This is why I do not go to tribal casinos that spear fish. I went into the casino at Carter once to look around and the guy at the door said good luck and I replied I am not spending money here until you stop spearing fish (always being nice). The look on his face was priceless. If people want to go to their casinos that is their choice, I will not try to stop them. It is my way of letting them know I do not care for it.
Roger |
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Posts: 32958
Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | One must take a moment to consider what has been said regarding this issue here, and in past threads. There are actually very few Tribal members who spear fish when compared to the total group, and selecting any one person to demand they stop individual tribal members exercising what the Supreme Court has upheld as a right given to them by OUR forefathers treaties is a bit too far a reach. I don't like the spearing either. Not one bit. However, this is an issue beyond most of us as individuals for solution, and no protest, boycott, or other action by Muskie anglers will make one bit of difference. In the grand scheme of things, Muskie anglers are as small a minority when compared to the overall population of non native folks as the spear activists are to native folks. The Casino parking lots are full, and will be despite our feelings. Howl into the night if you must, boycott whatever you wish, the law is the law; upheld by the highest court we have at our disposal. The only way I see this ever changing in any meaningful manner is an alliance between the Tribes and Outdoorsmen to increase tourism in the ceded territories, and by simple numbers, increase the nember of visitors in casinos; or some like arrangement where both parties benefit. Unbridled rage, rascism, and protest failed. Boycotts failed. Negotiations with our own governing bodies to use the Gaming as a chip in reducing spearing failed. I might be a bit optimistic, somewhat of a dreamer, but the only constructive action I see left to the outdoorsmen and women here in Wisconsin and Minnesota is cooperation, understanding, and communication. Perhaps, just maybe, if we and the Native Americans are truly willing to talk this through in the future, the gap can be reduced and mutual benefit might result. The tribes do not trust the rest of us, not one bit. Maybe that would be a good starting point, to let them know it is not the color of their skin, their history, or their people we have issue with, it is simply that we hold dear a strong conservation ethic we find at odds with rights they hold just as dear. |
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Posts: 384
Location: Eagle River, Alaska | Steve....by being "closed" the Supreme Court refuses to hear the issue again?
There is nothing truer than Steve's observation...."Musky anglers are as small a minority of non native...folks as the spear activists are to the native folks." Although many musky anglers are vocal about preserving their resource ultimately we are swallowed up as a distinct minority. As a result trying to "force" an issue through pressure and "rage" is not likely to work....not enough people behind. He's probably right the only way the issue will change is with co-operation and something mutually beneficial.
Nice Comment Steve....Merry Christmas....snowing like crazy here,
Brian |
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Posts: 1046
| H2o said it best,and I do the very same thing.Its all we got right now! |
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Posts: 21
| Steve,
I have to say that your's is one of the most intelligent and reasoned posts regarding the whole issue.
It will be interesting to watch the changing Red Lake over the next couple of years. I have heard rumors that the natives may change their management of their portion of the lake and sell licenses to non-natives. The thinking is that they may make more money from fishing related tourism than from netting.
It also seems like this level of cooperation is expanding, as we see more fishing tourneys cosponsored by tribal-owned casinos.
Maybe it's a beginning....
Tom B |
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Posts: 66
Location: Wales Wi. | I was told by some locals that over 300 Muskies were speared out of Bone last year..does anyone know if this is true or has any info? This would explain why the numbers are way down. It just seems like alot of lakes I fish people are always talking about "all the muskies speared", and I have a hard time believing that this is just not the facts, but angry locals that have issue with spearing in general..I dont like spearing of my favorite fish..but I dont like lies also. |
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Posts: 941
Location: Freedom, WI | Great post Steve- It would be nice If we all could work together and I am all for it. I do not care about their color, people, or history, what we have is the future. We need to protect what we have (the Tribes buying the Crandon mine site is a great start) because we do not get to do it over if we mess it up. I will still stay away from the casinos because it is all I can do. |
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