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Posts: 32934
Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | Keith has an odd thing happening in his ride. When his charger is plugged in, his hull literally will set off a voltage detector 3' from the boat, and if the ground is wet will near knock you over if you touch the hull anywhere. Unplug the charger and it stops. We disconnected the charger from the start battery and no accessories are connected to the trolling motor batteries. The charger is isolated from the hull, no metal to metal contact. Can't see anything untoward in the trolling motor wiring.
Aluminum boat.
Ideas? |
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Posts: 612
| Aluminum is a good conductor (remeber the old aluminum wiring). However it should be charging at lower DC voltage ~ 13 Vdc. It sounds like the VAC (115)V which powers the charger is somehow how shorting to the boats aluminum hull. This could have the potential for a strong shock as Steve reported.
Edited by NPike 6/8/2020 10:56 AM
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Posts: 20255
Location: oswego, il | What NPike said. Is this a new charger? Can you try another one? |
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Posts: 96
| Damage to shielding on the charger power cord (AC side) or to the extension cord being used to plug the charger in? |
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Posts: 32934
Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | We burned up one charger and have another brand new one in the boat now. Same deal. The plug in is on the console, possible something is going on there? |
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| Can you see the route the power cord takes from the charger to the console? If it passes through a metal bulk head/brace, may be that the rubber grommet or whatever is protecting the wiring is cracked, displaced and the insulation on the wire is cut by rubbing on metal. Have seen that with a 12 V wire on couple of occasions on trailers. |
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Posts: 96
| North of 8 - 6/8/2020 12:57 PM
Can you see the route the power cord takes from the charger to the console? If it passes through a metal bulk head/brace, may be that the rubber grommet or whatever is protecting the wiring is cracked, displaced and the insulation on the wire is cut by rubbing on metal. Have seen that with a 12 V wire on couple of occasions on trailers.
^This |
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Location: 31 | medy - 6/8/2020 1:04 PM
North of 8 - 6/8/2020 12:57 PM
Can you see the route the power cord takes from the charger to the console? If it passes through a metal bulk head/brace, may be that the rubber grommet or whatever is protecting the wiring is cracked, displaced and the insulation on the wire is cut by rubbing on metal. Have seen that with a 12 V wire on couple of occasions on trailers.
^This
x3
Because you have experienced the same problem with 2 different battery chargers, it's 99% not the charger. I would start by bypassing the console plug-in with a new extension cord plugged directly into in the new battery charger.
If the problem persists, at least you have it isolated to one of the boats larger supply lines making contact with the boats metal. As above, and those nice-looking rubber boots for the power leads to the motors could hide some sharp metal edges that could cut and cause a short. |
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Posts: 100
| Everyone else is right. You're getting hit with 120 v AC. Not the 12v DC your charger is outputting. Should make it easy to trace as your issue is from the on board charger to the end of the plug. |
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Posts: 373
Location: Huber Heights, Ohio | Does this happen with every outlet that the charger is plugged into or just when he charges it at home?
If it doesn't matter where it's plugged in at the issue is like the others say. If it only happens when plugged into the same outlet at home where he normally charges it, the issue may be that that outlet isn't grounded properly. You can buy an inexpensive plug in ground tester at just about any home improvement or hardware store or Walmart.
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Posts: 1785
| Being the smart butt guy I am, I would get somebody you don't like over there to play with it.
Edited by Brian Hoffies 6/13/2020 6:16 AM
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Posts: 218
| I agree it has to be on the input side. Should be blowing fuses in the house but with trailer tires insulating the ground the boat is hot. Could be a simple as a the hot shorted to ground or a wrong connection. Be careful - friend lost the family dogs years ago ago when he (dog) put his nose on a dryer that was hot but was sitting on pallet thus insulating it from the concrete floor. A good ground could be serious trouble. |
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Posts: 100
| If the hot was shorted to ground, the breaker would definitely pop.
What is likely happening is that there is a small knick in the hot side of the 120v AC going into the charger that is making contact with the boat. The current flows back to neutral as normal until you touch the boat, giving the hot a path to ground. If you touched it long enough, the breaker would pop.
I can also tell you this circuit is not a GFCI, because those monitor the current flowing from hot to neutral. Any imbalance causes the GFCI to trip. As a test, the charger could be plugged into a GFCI (outdoor, kitchen or bath outlet). If the GFCI pop, you have your solution. You make have to ground the boat out to make this happen. I would suggest a metal rod or a piece of wire and leather or heavy rubber gloves. Or your mother in law.
Edited by CRK925 6/10/2020 9:25 PM
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| Steve, when you get this resolved, please post what the problem was. I was thinking about this issue when I plugged my charger in yesterday. Now, the charger is same as it was when I put it in new 3 years ago and the outlet I use is a GFI that I have tested, but climbing in and out of the boat while on the lift, made me think! |
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Posts: 2754
Location: Mauston, Wisconsin | Steve, If the ground for the charger is not connected to the boat hull, there is no return path to the house circuit. Which is usually the case for aluminum hull boats, e.g., to prevent galvanic corrosion of the hull.
#1. Verify that the house outlet is wired properly, e.g., with an outlet checker as has been suggested previously. Ideally the outlet should be an GFI (ground fault interrupting outlet) to protect people. However, this is not usually the case with older homes. Kids are especially susceptible to electrocution, e.g., because body mass is directly related to how much current is required and the duration to cause cardiac arrest. Do not test by touching the boat!
If the boat is in the water, at a dock and the charger is plugged in, it could be very dangerous for anyone swimming in the vicinity when the charger is plugged in.
ABSOLUTELY! Do not test by touching the boat!
#2. Check the extension cord too with the outlet checker. If it checks good, Keith's problem is in the boat.
#3. Because the charger is isolated from the hull. First disconnect both the hot and neutral at the charger (extension cord to boat disconnected). Then take a piece of std. 14AWG or larger jumper wire and connect the charger ground to the hull.
#4. With the house extension cord disconnected at both ends, plug in the boat end first and then the house end. It's very likely the house CB will trip or fuse will blow. If it does its in the boat.
There is an alternate much safer method using a multimeter. With the house extension cord disconnected. Simply set your multimeter to Ohms (lowest setting). Then connect the red lead to the hot (typically black wire) at the charger and then take the multimeter black lead and touch it to the hull, if it reads zero or very low ohms the hot is shorted to the hull in the boat wiring.
If not, then check the neutral (white wire) the same way by moving the multimeter red lead to the charger neutral and touching the black lead to the hull.. If either the AC hot or the neutral is shorted to the hull it's very dangerous!
A good temporary fix has already been suggested by Jerry Newman.
If you or Keith need to discuss anything, please call 608-547-7057.
Be careful!
Al |
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Posts: 32934
Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | The charger wires have been replaced, so that's not an issue. We figure we did this rigging the boat because it began after adding accessories, just need to isolate what and where. If not, we'll take it to the capable service team at Plowmans. Thanks guys, we'll do what Jerry and AL suggest and see if we can isolate where the issue is. |
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Posts: 2754
Location: Mauston, Wisconsin | Steve, use the safer method. The 1-4 method will not identify a shorted neutral.
Al |
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Posts: 256
Location: plant earth | use a VOM set on a/c try testing your output on your charger. if you have a/c on your output and your battery is grounded to boat hull you are putting that current on your hull just looking for the shortest path to ground. especially when its wet. try disconnecting each terminal independently and see when your a/c tester quits finding voltage. |
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