|
|
| I have been working on color and contrast selections under different light and turbidity conditions.
Some of the interesting things I have looked into is the base color in orange (is it red, or yellow?) and Green (is it blue, or yellow?). Red base makes a dark bait in low light, blue makes a dark bait in low light, the others opposite! Still look orange and green, but the color changes in the prism of the water column.
What are your favorite patterns; what water clarity conditions? |
|
| |
|
| Green, orange and yellow in mild conditions with a slight bloom. Black and gold for dark river waters.
I believe you must have a contrast color. A hot orange belly on the bottom of a bait contrasted with green etc.. Is an eye catcher.
|
|
| |
|
| Jason,
Who's eye does it catch?..yours or the fish.[:bigsmile:] |
|
| |
|
| pearl and yellow + green like in a perch or a bulfrog pattern. Other than that redheads too in clear water and trolled deep. Stained water seems to be perch and firetiger |
|
| |
|
| I think there is to much emphasis put on colors of lures. I believe if it swims and as any kind of contrast it will catch muskies. I think that if you were to do a year long experiment like I did this year ( it was not a planned affair but it happenned anyways ) and that you were to take away your fish catching lures one at a time, and by the end of the year you may have many missing baits and for some reason you are still catching fish. I for one have 20 fish catching lures missing and for some reason I am still catching fish. Now naturaly I had a lot of these lures and some of the same colors but near the end I was getting to the point that my 5 favorite colors were just not there so I was selecting them as the nearest looking color as the one that was hot yesterday or last week and then just looking for soem that would run properly. And if you were to run out of your favorite lure there is always some other lures in your box that are close to them in shape and or action. I bet by the end of the year I will be able to look at my logs and find that I caught fish on many more different colors then usual.
Now if I was to stop fishing the spots where I was catching fish one at a time I do believe that the last few months of the year would be very long and boring.[:sun:]
In other words if there is a fish there you can catch it with many different lures or colors but if it's a dead spot no color will make then appear.[:sun:] |
|
| |
|
| hi. i have greate luck on one of my home made paint jobs in clear water. i call it old gold crappie. it is a gold belly and white sides with a gold scale mid side to upper back with a black back then i take and put silver tick marks along the body and tick gold next to the silver ticks. this has become an allaround clear water color for me and my friends it is like money in the bank. as farr as plastics go i preffer motoroil the best. in dark water i like org belly with aslight blk scale on yellow or some other light but vivid color. i fish mostly deep clear water so i cant help to much on the dark side of things for now i just cant think about it im in my deep clear faall mode dont want to break it up :) |
|
| |
|
| Richard Collin is correct that you can't catch fish (with any color lure) if they aren't there. BUT, when they are there.... color is certainly a tool we can use to OUR advantage by fishing more efficiently. Sometimes natural patterns are a must... but other times the most visible color will be most productive.
Water clarity and depth is a HUGE factor for determining which wavelength (color) of light is most available in the water for your lure to reflect. You don't need to be technical to figure it out either... just plop your lure in the lake and see if it is brighter than the others (good old trial and error).
When orange is good, I've found the best orange is one with a prime coat of fluorescent yellow. Seems I agree with Steve on that one. Problem is.... we don't usually paint our own lures and don't have much control over how our oranges are blended.
Another GREAT color is BROWN. It is usually a mix of ALL colors with an emphasis in the red/yellow region. Perfect... but ugly.
jlong |
|
| |
|
| jlong,
What about pure confidence... I use certain colored baits because of my past with that color. Firetiger with its contrasts of orange, yellow and dark green has been a favorite of mine for sometime. Golden shinner with orange an gold offers too anther great contrast that has proven to me to be a producer.
When we pick a bait, not only do we pick it because you think the muskie will see it, but isnt it also a confidence thing. When I fished with you on Sunday jlong, you came up with some great contasts to catch some muskies in that somewhat darker water conditions. But I also seen you put away some of your baits, same as me because of the confidence factor. So is it really the color contrast.. or just because that favorite slammer has been kicking some tail this fall.
I think color confidence and bait confidence plays a big role on how long you pitch the bait. The moto is "if you pitch is long enough, they will come"[;)] [:bigsmile:] |
|
| |
|
| As I once posted before, I was a rapala kid growing up. I am fond of silver/black and gold/black. I never seem to do very good on gaudy loud baits. Even in murky water I seem to do better with more natural colors. As far as orange goes, I like a natural orange as opposed to a flourescent one. |
|
| |
|
| Jason,
I knew you were watching! You are correct that CONFIDENCE is a major factor, but part of what makes that confidence is the melding of experience, science, and a good old "gut feeling". In the morning I started with a bright chartruese because of the low light and dark water (Purkinje Shift Theory). As the day progressed and the skies cleared up... I tossed a lot more GOLD and orange (you didn't think I could work that Slammer Deep Diver in the slop, did ya? But nary a weed on my line!).
Then, when we went to the clear water side of the lake... I went with a "shocker" for about 5 minutes and my good old gut feeling told me WHITE was better. That "top secret" bait caught the only fish of the day too, I might add.
My lure changing was not just for color. Different actions, depths, profiles, etc. were also a factor for looking in the box several times throughout the day.
Hmmm, come to think of it I raised 3 fish and caught one. What did you have? I think it was 2 follows. If I didn't know any better, the TEAM did pretty good... but one player seemed to score more points (ha ha). Hey Jomusky, how many points did you score? Must have been the back of the boat, ay? Yup, it was a fun day.
jlong |
|
| |
|
| oooops [:sun:] |
|
| |
|
| jlong.
Yes it was a fun day on the water. Always fun to exchange muskie info, see different style of presentations and pick on JoMusky.
But you have to explain to me the Purkinje shift theory?[;)]
As far as the clear east end, I have caught many fish there on white, brown and other natural colors. But its 10:1 on firetiger. The exact spot you caught your fish on a white bait, I caught a fish infront of Scott Jenkins on firetiger this summer. Granted the lake has a small bloom on it in the west end in the summer, but you can still see 6ft. I use firetiger because its a confidence factor. You seen how chewed up some of my firetiger baits were. The fact that you seen three to my two is not relavant. I put you more times closer to the weed edge where the fish were holding tight too. So that might be a reason. But I put JoMusky on the same edge and all he did was scare your musky away. LOL Whats with that!!. Maybe he should not have used that big bright orange TR that you can see a mile away. LOL
I just think time on the water, confidence in a certain bait, color and presentation will win in the long run.[;)]
|
|
| |
|
| I have to agree with color as a confidence thing more then using a chart or something of that effect!(for me!)I have caught more fish this year using what I think is good more then matching the hatch or using what everyone else is!Bright/gawdy colors on crystal clear water landed us some other laughing fisherman BUT some Big spots too!He who laughs,laughs LAST!Confidence,without it your done!But others look and work at it differrent,with good luck also!Thats the fun part! Jeff |
|
| |
|
| jlong,
Come on buddy, I am really interested in hearing about the Purkinje shift theory.
You have my attention on this one?[;)] [:bigsmile:] |
|
| |
|
| What wave length is the most common sold color.. Cisco.
How does that common color stand up to the color charts? |
|
| |
|
| Hey Jason Smith,
Are you saying that Cisco colored crankbaits are the hottest sellers? I thought just the opposite since Joe Buecher had quit making his blue/and white crankbait since it sold poorly. That''s why it seems tough to find blue/ white, and other colors that aren''t so flashy. In fact, I think he even said that the ugliest and least popular colors were also they best fish producers.
It''s also has been said that the bright colored baits sell well because they are what the fishermen are looking for. Firetiger is one of the hottest sellers because not only is it flashy but effective. The effectiveness lies in the fact is that it''s a flashy perch colored bait. (Man, and if there''s a bait color that I think that should be a staple in anyone''s tackle box it''s perch colored baits.) I think if it imitates something in nature it may be a great pattern even though it may look like Andy Warhol painted it.
I have a heck of a time finding any cisco colored baits on some of our sporting good stores here in Green Bay. I wish more places would carry cisco patterned baits. I guess the closest to them would be Tennessee Shad, Flannel Tail, and Shimmerin Shad.
I believe that the blues and whites really come on their own during cold weather conditions. It''s kinda ironic though, that supposedly muskies see blue in grey shades. It''s suppose to be one of those colors in the spectrum that muskies are somewhat colored blind to(at least that''s the theory on it). You''d think it wouldn''t even excite them to hit it. But then again maybe it appears the most natural to other baits and elicits a strike.
My take on this whole subject is: that as fishermen we''re trying to achieve an illusion for the fish. This illusion can be achieved by the action of the bait, it''s depth that it''s running, the vibration blueprint(the lateral line signature), and it''s color combination. It''s having all these things tie together that will provoke a strike from a fish. It''s not rocket science, but putting everything together and achieving success for these fish may appear that it is. That''s were being at the right place at the right time rule comes into play.
We''re all magicians trying to trick mother natures creatures. Smoke and mirrors baby!!! |
|
| |
|
| Jason, before I divulge the Purkinje Shift... I must insert a plug for Esox Angler Magazine. They had the courage to print my material on this controversial subject and therefore I feel everyone into musky fishing should subscribe. I believe it was this past spring issue that ran "Color Concepts". Check it out.
To answer your question, the PURKINJE SHIFT is a term describing when the eye transitions from daytime vision to nighttime vision.... or in other words goes from color vision (using cones) to black/white vision (using RODS). Basically the PEAK sensitivity of the eye shifts from the Red/Orange part of the spectrum to the the BLUE/GREEN part of the spectrum.
My favorite example it when a dark stormcloud rolls in and the surroundings get that erie GREEN appearance. That is your eye transitioning (PURKINJE SHIFT) from the bright sunlight to the dark overcast condition that just occurred quickly.
I guess my rule of thumb (that has been proven wrong many times - Thanks TR!) is chartruese = overcast and flo. orange = bright sun. Your orange lures will be BRILLIANT in the sunlight and DULL in low light (overcast). So, on a cloudy day and at any significant depth... an orange lure will quickly fade to shades of grey in appearance... while the green-based baits will be brighter, deeper and retain their original coloration longer.
It isn't fool proof... but when FLASH is a necessary trigger considering this stuff can help.
jlong |
|
| |
|
| Bs. or no Bs. I don’t know. But that is the smartest sounding/ info enlightening post I have ever read on any of the musky boards. Any info that gives me one less variable to worry about makes my fishing that much more enjoyable. With great writers like this sharing on the Internet, are magazines going to become obsolete? Or is a picture of Jlong in a musky pose necessary to sell this? Thanks Jlong.
Purkinje shift – sounds like an Enya song or a good name for a boat
[:sun:] |
|
| |
|
| One serious effect with the shift thoery is that the fish's eye changes from Cone to Rod vision on a clock basis not associated with weather related changing light conditions.
The shift in the evening is slow, and can take a considerable length of time to complete. By the time the fish is 100% on rod vision, the available light would not supply any color at all anyway. Obviously, rod vision, which as humans we can only imagine in the scope we are discussing here, allows for immense sensitivity to available light, and the fish see VERY well in what we would consider darkness. No color is available, period, and the fish could not see it if it was.
The shift from Rod to Cone is also on a clock basis, and takes time to complete as well. By the time a muskie is on Cone vision, the available light in the water column they inhabit may or may NOT allow for much, if any, color.
Couple that with the fact that most of the time, the fish is looking up, using the sky as the attack vector, and one now has the effect of water as a prism to consider there, too. As the light comes up on a clear day in clear water, the sky color goes from black/grey to deep violet to lighter violet to blue, if one is shallow enough, which muskies usually are. The critical sight picture for the fish should, in my thinking, contrast with the background as much as possible. Flash, side colors, and all the other variables are not, in my thinking, as pertinent as the contrast issue for the fish to locate the luse in conditions where turbidity do not partially prohibit it.
On cloudy days, the sky is white/grey, so any dark color will contrast. On sunny days, the sky is Violet to Blue, so ant bright/light color contrasts well, including white.
True black will ALWAYS contrast, as there is no condition where it will not.
Another problem with the idea is the distinct probability that Muskies and Pike see in a specrum we do not; the cell structure suggests that they may be able to see objects with little available light in a way not yet much considered. The possibility that these wonderous creatures can see in the UV spectrum is strong, and alters the way we need to look at what they actually see. This is a new field of research; we will see how it shakes out.
My all time no question best producing color pattern, over 30 plus years, has been black. It will always work, period, and will always be visible, in any conditions.If one could UV enhance black somehow, we may have the go-to color figured out if one is not certain of light conditions in the water column where the fish are on any given day. |
|
| |
|
| Ok to sum in up...Please correct me if I am wrong.
Orange Suick with black dots = Cloudy day
Chart Suick with black dots = Sunny day
Black Suick all the time
Hmmmm!!! Those are my three most chewed up Suicks in my box, go figure!![;)]
Firetiger: Orange, Green with black stripes..I guess you cant go wrong.
Hmmmm!!! Now I know why that is my go to all around favorite color.[:bigsmile:] |
|
| |
|
| Well JasonS even I can tell you that you got them mixed up.
Orange for sunny days and chartreuse for cloudy days. So thats what Jlong said. LOL
I now have to go look at my logs and see if orange is better with clouds and chartreuse with the sun, this might be a breaktrue in color selection.
But all this goes down the toilet with any diving lures right? as the sun or clouds have no effects or deeper running lures in dirty water.[:sun:] |
|
| |
|
| The study of color is extremely complex... especially in the underwater world due to it's "color filtering" affects.
My rule of thumb is orange on clear, sunny days and chartruese on overcast days. Mostly because under low light a muskies vision is transitioning to an emphasis on RODS. Also, orange contrasts the best against blue. If steve is correct that the background on a bluebird sky day is blue... then orange will stand out the best. Combine that with the more vivid reds in high illumination and you have an even more intense color that stands out against the background.
I disagree with Steve on the relationship to a clock. Your eyes will adjust regardless of what time of day it is. Just walk into a dark room and you will see that after a few minutes your eyes have adjusted. Flick the lights on and you will see just how sensitive your CONES are as you shield your eyes from the light until your eyes have re-adjusted to the NEW degree of illumination.
There is endless factors to how color behaves in certain water clarities, depths, sky conditions, etc. and then throw in the complexities of pigments and how they form color in the paint used, and consider the biology of the eye and what it percieves.... get the picture?
You can be smart about your color selection.... but there will ALWAYS be a need for good old Trial and Error. Also, putting your lure in the right spot is even more important than choosing the right color.
jlong |
|
| |
|
| Your right Richard, I must have read too quickly at lunchtime, shame on me.[;)]
Orange=sunny
Chart =Dark
Except when they are eating Chart baits all the time.[;)] |
|
| |
|
| We have to be careful of anthropomorphising here...The human eye, although remakably similar to the fish''s, has several differences that are very important.
The fish''s eye is like a 35mm camera. Our eye allows for light adjustment through the iris, expanding and contracting in response to light changes. The fish''s eye allows only the light in the direct field of vision in, the rest is filtered out. Light changes are handled by the receptor cells, rods and cones, and pigment cells.
The fish''s rod and cone cells extend and retract much, much more slowly than ours. Scientists have found that it takes two to three hours for the transition to be complete, and only about two hours of 100% rod or cone vision exists on any given day, the rest of the time the fish''s eye is in transition, readying for night, or day. Artificial light can extend the cone vision time, interupting the Circadian Rythm of the fish, but ONLY if the fish remains in the circle of light, as if it leaves the lighted area directly in the fish''s vision field the light will be filtered out.
The muskie following the ''clock time'' vision adjustment in preperation for evening and night (the Circadian Rythm) is exposed to direct light at night, it will be ''light blinded'' and either sink to the bottom and move very little, or swim in an erratic fashion. Teleosts are thought to use pigment cells to adjust to unexpected sudden changes in light, but still take a half hour to adjust to unexpected bright light, and an hour to unexpected darkness.
The transition timing from rod to cone and back to rod vision occurs in a remarkably predictable fashion, every day of the year. Many feel the best suited time for predator fish to feed is when they are at the peak for vision advantage...the early rising of dawn, and the diminishing light of evening, perhaps partially explaining the natural feeding activity that occurs much of the time during that time frame.
On the sky color front:
If one is shallow enough during the ''sun noon'' timeframe, the sky will definitely be blue under clear water conditions. If one was to go very deep, say over 35 feet, the water column would filter out the longer wavelengths of light, and the sky would appear dark violet. Since the vast amount of muskie fishing presentations are suited to 20 feet and shallower, the sky background colors I mentioned in the previous post will be as mentioned.
This subject has been of interest to me since 1973, when I first read ''Through the Fish''s Eye''---Mark Sosin, John Clark--there is alot more to this, and we are sure to bring out most of it as the winter progresses in ......[:bigsmile:] |
|
| |
|
| Hey Jason today was dark and it even started to snow after 2 PM but I nailed a 50 and a low 30s in the morning on you guessed it Chartreuse. I hope the sun come out soon to try orange, but I don't have any orange plows.[:sun:] |
|
| |
|
| sworral,
I have brought the UV distribution to lure top coats to jlongs attention long ago. The topcoat will enhance the light as it passes through to the substrate paint which then reflects the light and is again enhanced as it passes back through the topcoat. I can enhance black but as of this date, can only use it with waterborne topcoat. The ingedient hasn't worked well with solvent based topcoat. Therefore my problem lies with the lures contact with water for extended amounts of time and the finish goes soft.
Stan[:p]
PS, Is there anyway to speed up the downloading on this board as it takes forever?? |
|
| |
|
| Hey jlong,
Email me at the shop when you get a chance.
Stan [:bigsmile:] |
|
| |
|
| Steve, you've been interested in this subject WWWAAAAAYYYYY longer than I have. Geez, I was born in '72... about the time those guys were putting that article together!!! While I was figuring out how to walk... and what pleasure women can be... you were twisting your brain on a very challenging subject (well, women ain't an easy subject either - ha ha).
Anyway, you share a lot of invaluable information. One thing I find of interest is that peripheral vision is predominanly performed by RODS. Since the peak sensitivity of rods is in the yellow/green range I would think that those colored baits would "catch the eye" of the fish much better.
Second, as you already know, water clarity is a HUGE factor for determining color along with depth. It is so complex that for someone to come up with a single formula for choosing lure color consistently would be near impossible.
The discussion of UV light and its role in fish vision is also very interesting. Stan Durst is on the cutting edge in paint pattern development for even considering to use it as a tool to create "better" baits.
Another question that is difficult to answer is WHEN is standing out and being the MOST visible color the better approach in comparison to more natural color patterns?
Typically, I use natural colors in high visibility situations and FLUORESCENT colors in low visibility situations to take advantage of the "UV BOOST". Then again, it could also just be so "I" can see the bait better.
I'm curious. How many people out there have some sort of a "system" for color selection... and how many just go with the classic "trial and error" methodology? I have to admit... I use BOTH.
jlong |
|
| |
|
| Jason,
I too use both although you use it in real application more than I do. Mine is done in shop and I never seem to get done tinkering. Though I'm not happy unless I am. Simply put, I believe in four things that need to come together to be successful. A lure that works well, a color that attracts, proper presentation, and fish in the general area.
There are many lures that work well, many colors that work well, good presentations and musky in the area at times. I want a color that works even better that the ones that work well. I'm gaining ground but it is a slow process. I feel the most important thing is that I listen and learn a lot from you and Steve as well as insight from others experiences and it keeps me on the right track in my endeavors.
With that in mind a hint is do. Watch for something different and something new in color application as the spring season approaches. And it works'''''''''
Stan[:devil:] |
|
| |
