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Posts: 3136
| Tarpon 6
If your going there in September bring the shotgun too,,fishing sucks but some of the best grouse hunting in the world,,and tons of public land,,we've taken guys to vermilion and then brought them out grouse hunting for a day and after all the fun they never picked up a rod the rest of the trip. One guy we brought and borrowed a gun too after a day on the trails said afterwards,,"right now I'd trade my ranger for a nice over/under" |
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Posts: 591
Location: Duluth | happy hooker - 7/26/2018 3:54 PM
Tarpon 6
If your going there in September bring the shotgun too,,fishing sucks but some of the best grouse hunting in the world,,and tons of public land,,we've taken guys to vermilion and then brought them out grouse hunting for a day and after all the fun they never picked up a rod the rest of the trip. One guy we brought and borrowed a gun too after a day on the trails said afterwards,,"right now I'd trade my ranger for a nice over/under"
haha this is why I would love fishing Verm in late fall, all the guys that like to walk around with shotguns or freeze in a tree are off the water. Yea fishing can be slow, but you pretty much have unlimited access to all the milk runs and the slobs are for sure still there...Just really helps to be fishing with some one who has been on the pattern. |
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Location: MN | Grouse hunting is for guys who don't know how to duck hunt.
My buddies and I have made some good memories on the Big V. We've also had some weekends just seeing a fish is a challenge. If it didn't hold giants I probably wouldn't bother with it as much. 2016 was good but 2017 and 2018 have been super tough. A lot of the best guides on the lake are struggling. The fishing pressure can be ridiculous. Hopefully eventually the pressure tapers off from the tough fishing. Moon phases are critical. The fish are there, its just being on the right spot when a window opens. If the day time fishing sucks pull an all nighter.
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Posts: 591
Location: Duluth | Nershi - 7/27/2018 11:34 AM
If the day time fishing sucks pull an all nighter.
Few do this, and that keeps me happy |
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Posts: 330
Location: SE Wisc | Been to the V about half dozen times. It’s my favorite lake of the lakes I’ve fished for reasons other than just big muskies-scenery, structure, multi species, hunting, golf. It’s a great vacation. Most those trips have been tough for skis but it only takes one “special” trip that keeps you coming back to a particular place. My biggest fish came from there, around 45lbs. Also had a trip with 3 over 52 and lost one from the net that would have made 4. I was there in 2015 for the PMTT when a 57” was caught and a ton of other big fish( none for me). If you spend time enough time there you will eventually get lucky but having said that there are only a few months of the year that I’ll fish that lake. |
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Posts: 441
| I agree with Kirby, again. Late September and October are my toughest months, also. |
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Posts: 1126
Location: Minnesota. | I love that lake and also hate that lake.
Seems It's hot(ish) or KOLD!! Mostly cold! But - she's got some dandies in her...when they decide to eat.
Going back up in August - after losing a few pounds of body-fat pitching to "nada" (can't fight follows can you!) for a full 3wks this summer!
I don't know why I keep doing this. But I do. And I will. She's a beautiful lake!!! Daaang... |
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Posts: 60
| Heading up in early August for a week. 4th year for me, hoping to stick one of the big ones this year. Seems like the follow to bite ratio is like 12:1 there vs. about 4:1 where I fish most in WI. See several 50+ every year, but most have lockjaw. Beautiful lake, usually not crowded, and views of the milky way in the night sky are tremendous. Great place to turn off the cell phone and relax for a week. |
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Posts: 59
| I just back from fishing Vermilion July 22-25th and the Muskie fishing was very tough for us. This was only the third time I have ever fished it, so not making a proclamation about the lake. Just agreeing that is was also super tough for us!
On a side note while I was eating breakfast at a lodge, I overheard the owner talking with some patrons. They were commenting on how Muskie's are invasive species and they are eating all the walleyes. Their consensus was that no muskies should be in the lake and all the Muskie's should be killed. Sadly it looks like Minnesota's Muskie fight is just getting started. |
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Posts: 1184
| Top H2O - 7/26/2018 9:44 AM
To me Vermilion is more than just trying to boat a Muskie... it's about the overall experience and enjoyment I get out of exploring new areas and employing new and "older" tactics . It's about making new friends and enjoying the wildlife around the Lake. It's about sitting around the Campfire and chatting about things in Life and of course the fishing.
To me Vermilion is my recharging station and a place to clear my mind and find the Peace of God.
Boating a Muskie is just a bonus, the Cherry on the Cake.
Fishing for Muskie on Vermilion may never be what it was, but it still is better than a lot of other places.
G-Rome
^^^^^
This, for me too. Also, fun to break up the muskie effort by catching a few walleye, crappie, and smallmouth. All of which, are in much higher abundance. |
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Posts: 2276
Location: Chisholm, MN | mbuck - 7/30/2018 3:32 PM
I just back from fishing Vermilion July 22-25th and the Muskie fishing was very tough for us. This was only the third time I have ever fished it, so not making a proclamation about the lake. Just agreeing that is was also super tough for us!
On a side note while I was eating breakfast at a lodge, I overheard the owner talking with some patrons. They were commenting on how Muskie's are invasive species and they are eating all the walleyes. Their consensus was that no muskies should be in the lake and all the Muskie's should be killed. Sadly it looks like Minnesota's Muskie fight is just getting started.
Muskies were actually native to vermilion back in the day. But that's irrelevant to these people. |
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Posts: 20179
Location: oswego, il | I stayed at a lodge up on vermillion once where the owner thought the same. Nice guy, nice family but his belief was based in ignorance, his backup to his belief was that his son had a big musky grab his walleye. Not sure there is an organized opposition to musky on vermillion. Not all the lodges owners up there are good at fishing and some don't fish much at all.
Edited by ToddM 7/30/2018 4:30 PM
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Posts: 2004
| Kirby is correct. Originally native, shoepack then stocked, then Leechers. I heard many times to watch out for those red fish... All of MN needs more education on muskies.
Kirby, were you putzing through Everett Bay last Friday evening? |
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Posts: 2276
Location: Chisholm, MN | ARmuskyaddict - 7/31/2018 12:22 AM
Kirby is correct. Originally native, shoepack then stocked, then Leechers. I heard many times to watch out for those red fish... All of MN needs more education on muskies.
Kirby, were you putzing through Everett Bay last Friday evening?
Yeah there is photo proof of Muskies!
Nope, haven’t been in there all season actually. I was out fishing though! Blanked all weekend:( |
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Posts: 59
| I thought I had heard that before. |
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Posts: 17
Location: Florida | I've heard storied of locals killing muskies accidentally caught when walleye fishing. The DNR did stock 8300 fingerlings in 2015 and 3000 in 2017. I wonder what the survival rate is on those fish? |
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Posts: 2276
Location: Chisholm, MN | tarpon6 - 7/31/2018 8:01 AM
I've heard storied of locals killing muskies accidentally caught when walleye fishing. The DNR did stock 8300 fingerlings in 2015 and 3000 in 2017. I wonder what the survival rate is on those fish?
Those 8000 reflect a little bit of what they used to stock. But they take a long time to grow so we won't see them for a long time. 3000 is nothing for a lake that size. Very discouraging. But I hear there is a brighter future in store for vermilion stocking. Time will tell. |
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Posts: 8
Location: Minneapolis, MN | Don't let 1 or 2 years of bigger stocking numbers fool you when there happens to be a "surplus." The reason why we are seeing what we are seeing on the V is math. If you look at the stocking data over the past 30 years, you will see a DRASTIC stocking reduction. I wouldn't say that the V is "tough" or "overrated" right now.....this is just what the lake has come to. This is normal now. Next time it is calm and sunny, go up on some of the best shallow rock reefs and report back what you see. On some spots there used to be 15-25 muskies, now there are 0 most of the time. All of the Muskies that used to get stocked into the V, Mille Lacs, and the Saint Louis River, have all gone to Western Minnesota. No one is talking about it and its a joke.
For example in this 10 year stretch from 2003-2013:
-Vermilion is 40K acres in size and received 18,002 Muskies in those 10 years which ONLY .46 fish per acre.
-6 lakes in Western mn (Pelican, Detroit, Big, West Battle, Planet, Miltona) COMBINED size of 24K acres and received 65,567 Muskies which is 2.7 fish per acre.
Just curious why certain lakes are more important than other. The MMPA doesn't care, Muskie Inc doesnt care, DNR doesn't care.
Edited by The_Answer 7/31/2018 9:03 AM
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Posts: 2276
Location: Chisholm, MN | The_Answer - 7/31/2018 8:37 AM
Don't let 1 or 2 years of bigger stocking numbers fool you when there happens to be a "surplus." The reason why we are seeing what we are seeing on the V is math. If you look at the stocking data over the past 30 years, you will see a DRASTIC stocking reduction. I wouldn't say that the V is "tough" or "overrated" right now.....this is just what the lake has come to. This is normal now. Next time it is calm and sunny, go up on some of the best shallow rock reefs and report back what you see. On some spots there used to be 15-25 muskies, now there are 0 most of the time. All of the Muskies that used to get stocked into the V, Mille Lacs, and the Saint Louis River, have all gone to Western Minnesota. No one is talking about it and its a joke.
For example in this 10 year stretch from 2003-2013:
-Vermilion is 40K acres in size and received 18,002 Muskies in those 10 years which ONLY .46 fish per acre.
-6 lakes in Western mn (Pelican, Detroit, Big, West Battle, Planet, Miltona) COMBINED size of 24K acres and received 65,567 Muskies which is 2.7 fish per acre.
Just curious why certain lakes are more important than other. The MMPA doesn't care, Muskie Inc doesnt care, DNR doesn't care.
Well said. You can't sustain a lake at those levels. Especially with the level of pressure it receives. |
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Posts: 833
| What size was stocked? If you are going from fry to 12" Fingerling to 17" Yearling the survive-ability rates are DRASTICALLY different, so one to one is not a real comparison. Can't just look at raw numbers stocked. The DNR is running a PIT Tag study in the TC Metro to determine survive-ability rates of the advanced yearlings in the TC Metro. Current trends are looking good last I heard.
Ramsell has a photo of a musky caught below the Vermillion Dam from I think 1939. I could be wrong about the date, if he sees this he'll set me straight. Larger point though is that Musky have always had a nascent population in Vermilion, there just were not a lot of them until the DNR starting enhancing with stocking. So they are not an invasive.
Really, if you think about it, anything that connects to the Rainy River or the Mississippi would have likely had these fish present at one time or another. Only through obstructions, ie dams, would the fish no longer be there. The stocking in Gull and Pokegama is not creating a "NEW" Musky lake, it is just reintroducing the fish to their old haunts. Perhaps one day the DNR will reintroduce them to Lake Pepin or Big Sandy. |
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Posts: 323
Location: Elk River, MN | Brad P - 7/31/2018 11:04 AM
Perhaps one day the DNR will reintroduce them to Lake Pepin or Big Sandy.
The DNR's St Croix study has showed that some of their tagged fish have swam down from the Croix all the way down to Pepin and back. You gotta wonder how many stocked fish in the Croix make their way down there and take up residence. |
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Posts: 408
Location: MN | Brad P - 7/31/2018 11:04 AM
What size was stocked? If you are going from fry to 12" Fingerling to 17" Yearling the survive-ability rates are DRASTICALLY different, so one to one is not a real comparison. Can't just look at raw numbers stocked.
That would make the comparison look worse. Vermilion has only received fingerlings. Some of those lakes on the list have received yearlings and adults.
Using 1 yearling = 3 fingerlings (DNR guideline, assumes 33% survival first year) and 1 adult = 6 fingerlings (assumes 50% survival second year), over the 2003-2013 period
LAKE -------- ACRES ---- FINGERLING EQUIV - FING/ACRE
Vermilion ---- 39272 ----- 18002 ----------------- 0.46
DL ---------- 3018 ------ 18292 ----------------- 6.06
Pelican ------ 3963 ------ 7819 ------------------ 1.97
West Battle - 5565 ------ 14667 ----------------- 2.64
I think it's worth noting that Pelican is a low density fishery - DNR estimate based on netting is 16.4 acres per adult muskie. The DL estimate is roughly half of that at 8.2 acres per adult. What does that say about V?
Edited by nar160 7/31/2018 1:07 PM
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Posts: 2004
| Kirby Budrow - 7/31/2018 5:51 AM
Nope, haven’t been in there all season actually. I was out fishing though! Blanked all weekend:(
Ok. Never met ya, but seen pics. Some guy came through that resembled your pics while I was fishing with my daughter. |
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Posts: 4080
Location: Elko - Lake Vermilion | I bought a Coffee Table book about 10-11 yrs. ago from the local newspaper in Tower (The Timber jay ?) 100 pages or so.... It tells about the History of the Lake going back from the first settlers up there. It's a pretty awesome book with Lots and Lots of Pics.
There are a few pics of Muskies dating back to the 1930's.... Pretty cool.
Did you know that Vermilion was several Lakes that connected by small streams and some of those Lakes didn't connect at all until the Dam was built. Then it become one Huge Lake.
Vermilion also had Steam Ships that carried people all over the Lake.
It's a really cool History book of Vermilion worth buying. |
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Posts: 8
Location: Minneapolis, MN | Why are the lakes in Western MN more important than V, Mille Lacs, SLR?
Why is Detroit Lake getting over 6 fish per acre? Its being stocked at FIVE TIMES the rate of V or Mille Lacs......
How is that okay? And WHY was that decision made?
That is just one example of Western MN taking all of the states Muskies.
Edited by The_Answer 7/31/2018 2:49 PM
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Posts: 2004
| Checking for NR. I caught a 32 with no signs of clipped fins, pretty sure it was a NR. Was, it inhaled the bucktail and was hooked behind the tongue. Doubt it survived. Ugh! |
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Posts: 349
| The_Answer - 7/31/2018 2:43 PM
Why are the lakes in Western MN more important than V, Mille Lacs, SLR?
Why is Detroit Lake getting over 6 fish per acre? Its being stocked at FIVE TIMES the rate of V or Mille Lacs......
How is that okay? And WHY was that decision made?
That is just one example of Western MN taking all of the states Muskies.
In what world is DL getting stocked at 6 fish/acre?
Muskie fisherman complaining about too many muskies being stocked in any MN lake is not a good look for us right now... |
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Posts: 17
| Long term data sets to show the rates mn stocks at are NOT detrimental to the overall fisheries are important for our future. |
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Posts: 32792
Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | The_Answer - 7/31/2018 8:37 AM
Don't let 1 or 2 years of bigger stocking numbers fool you when there happens to be a "surplus." The reason why we are seeing what we are seeing on the V is math. If you look at the stocking data over the past 30 years, you will see a DRASTIC stocking reduction. I wouldn't say that the V is "tough" or "overrated" right now.....this is just what the lake has come to. This is normal now. Next time it is calm and sunny, go up on some of the best shallow rock reefs and report back what you see. On some spots there used to be 15-25 muskies, now there are 0 most of the time. All of the Muskies that used to get stocked into the V, Mille Lacs, and the Saint Louis River, have all gone to Western Minnesota. No one is talking about it and its a joke.
For example in this 10 year stretch from 2003-2013:
-Vermilion is 40K acres in size and received 18,002 Muskies in those 10 years which ONLY .46 fish per acre.
-6 lakes in Western mn (Pelican, Detroit, Big, West Battle, Planet, Miltona) COMBINED size of 24K acres and received 65,567 Muskies which is 2.7 fish per acre.
Just curious why certain lakes are more important than other. The MMPA doesn't care, Muskie Inc doesnt care, DNR doesn't care.
That's because there is a detailed understanding of stocking programs and what the goals for the different waters are within those organizations. Ask representatives from those groups, and call your local biologist, maybe. |
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Posts: 16632
Location: The desert | The_Answer - 7/31/2018 2:43 PM
Why are the lakes in Western MN more important than V, Mille Lacs, SLR?
Why is Detroit Lake getting over 6 fish per acre? Its being stocked at FIVE TIMES the rate of V or Mille Lacs......
How is that okay? And WHY was that decision made?
That is just one example of Western MN taking all of the states Muskies.
Lol. Good one. |
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