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| Say whatever you want but having fished there many times and watching what happened, it's not the musky fisherman killing them. Saw them in nets and with their guts cut open. The only people that like them are us. Everyone that lives there would just as soon see them dead. |
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Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | 4amuskie - 8/12/2018 4:48 PM
Say whatever you want but having fished there many times and watching what happened, it's not the musky fisherman killing them. Saw them in nets and with their guts cut open. The only people that like them are us. Everyone that lives there would just as soon see them dead.
May be true, I have not heard much about that from the folks at Spring Bay. But angling mortality still is a very significant factor. What you bring up would be an added issue. Over here we have the Winter and Spring spearing added to the equation and a few idiots who kill muskies because they think they are eating all the whatevers. |
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Posts: 60
| Just back from a week at Vermilion, fourth year renting a cabin the same week in August. Fished mostly east side, mornings and evenings. Caught one, lost two, had 15 more follows to the boat and several followers were 4' plus size. Fish were generally not on the normal reefs / rocks as the past three years, majority were in weed areas and chased smaller bucktails. Weather was hot, calm, clear most of the week with new moon on Friday. Saw fish consistently active around the moon' overhead major time. Good luck to all that venture to that beautiful body of water, great vacation spot for my wife and I. |
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| sworrall - 8/12/2018 4:53 PM
4amuskie - 8/12/2018 4:48 PM
Say whatever you want but having fished there many times and watching what happened, it's not the musky fisherman killing them. Saw them in nets and with their guts cut open. The only people that like them are us. Everyone that lives there would just as soon see them dead.
May be true, I have not heard much about that from the folks at Spring Bay. But angling mortality still is a very significant factor. What you bring up would be an added issue. Over here we have the Winter and Spring spearing added to the equation and a few idiots who kill muskies because they think they are eating all the whatevers.
Spent time with local friends fishing walleyes this weekend, they also fish muskies. Said idiots are plentiful here, with several recent encounters with them and found floaters. It happens everywhere, but is more dramatic in a smaller population fishery. |
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Location: Minneapolis, MN | THIS! Look at those numbers that are real time data, they are facts. The questions is, WHY?
nar160 - 8/11/2018 12:29 AM
Vermilion is a bit different. Yes, there was an initial peak and an expected decline. However, the thing that everyone is concerned about is the dramatic drop off in stocking. In the decade 1987-1996, when the stocking was started, 52,599 fingerlings were stocked - that's 1.34 fingerlings/acre over the decade, a relatively modest stocking rate (less than 1/3 of DL and the Mad Chain lake examples). 10 years after that, the fishing was pretty good by most reports, but of course, that's biased a bit by the new reservoir syndrome. The point of discussion is the dramatic drop off in stocking that followed. From 2004-2013, that rate was 0.46 fingerlings/acre. The rate decreased by a factor of 3, from an already modest rate. Other fisheries have not seen this. Why cut the input to V during a time when recruitment rate was already expected to take a hit? Presumably they expected natural reproduction to take hold, but that does not seem to be the case. It seems that the new plan has adjusted for this and is bumping the stocking up a little, although not to the initial levels. Hopefully this will help bring up the population in the future.
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Location: Duluth | The doom and gloom around the V is overblown. To steve's point, its good the fish are no longer suicidal, and low density fisheries pump out bigger fish. Just cant expect to blindly throw a prop bait and get results. Musky fishing is tough, if the reason you are out there is to put numbers in the boat I suggest staying in the cities or drive to a pothole in NW Wi.
Maybe its because I got my start in the UP and NE Wi, lots of class C waters that certainly aren't numbers fisheries but man can they kick out a fish thats worth your time. But having a low density of natural reproducing fish, seems to be the goal and a smart one at that.
Guides that are concerned can likely change their advertising and tactics. Instead of saying "we will put you on multiple fish a day" it should be "spend a few days out here and you might get a shot at a fish that you will think about for the rest of the season" Just look at how the guides up on the Larry advertise, they are very clear that this isn't a numbers trip but the one hookup will be worth it. I guess now the onus is on the guides to adapt. |
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Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | The_Answer - 8/13/2018 6:49 AM
THIS! Look at those numbers that are real time data, they are facts. The questions is, WHY?
nar160 - 8/11/2018 12:29 AM
Vermilion is a bit different. Yes, there was an initial peak and an expected decline. However, the thing that everyone is concerned about is the dramatic drop off in stocking. In the decade 1987-1996, when the stocking was started, 52,599 fingerlings were stocked - that's 1.34 fingerlings/acre over the decade, a relatively modest stocking rate (less than 1/3 of DL and the Mad Chain lake examples). 10 years after that, the fishing was pretty good by most reports, but of course, that's biased a bit by the new reservoir syndrome. The point of discussion is the dramatic drop off in stocking that followed. From 2004-2013, that rate was 0.46 fingerlings/acre. The rate decreased by a factor of 3, from an already modest rate. Other fisheries have not seen this. Why cut the input to V during a time when recruitment rate was already expected to take a hit? Presumably they expected natural reproduction to take hold, but that does not seem to be the case. It seems that the new plan has adjusted for this and is bumping the stocking up a little, although not to the initial levels. Hopefully this will help bring up the population in the future.
As I said, some people want.... |
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| BrianF. - 8/11/2018 12:33 AM
People keep saying V is a go-to destination for the fish of a lifetime, though most complain she is on a steep downhill slide - and rightfully so. Meanwhile, Bret Alexander mentioned on national TV that he put 68 fish over 50” in his boat last year on Green Bay. Not 68 muskies; 68 over 50. The two bodies of water aren’t even comparable in terms of big fish productivity right now. Anyone searching for the fish of a lifetime would do way better going to other waters. There must be something else that is attracting fishermen to Vermilion.
As for the pressure on V, it has changed the fishery. What mature fish remain don’t act like they used to in a lot of ways. They don’t use key spots like in years past and when they do it’s for shorter durations and far fewer fish. They also seem to hold further off shore now and deeper than they once did. Many of the largest fish have learned avoidance behaviors or have become virtually uncatchable. If it’s a musky challenge you want, V will give it to you - and she will usually win. More these days that she is in decline as a musky fishery.
Green Bay can also be difficult. Remember, back in 2012, before the VHS issue, Green Bay was cranking out fish. Then in the fall of 2012, 76 anglers who had qualified for the PMTT World Championship fished the whole weekend on the Bay and the Fox River without catching a single musky. Nada, zilch. I have a relative who fishes the Bay a lot. Two years ago, he and his wife both caught their PB there. She got a 54.5 and a week later he caught a 56.5. But, they had a number of trips that year prior to those two fish where they caught nothing, and they cast and trolled with zero results. |
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Location: Florida | So I just noticed the PMTT will finish up 2 days before I get to Vermilion. How much worse is the fishing after a big tourney and how long does it take for the fish to "recover"? |
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| tarpon6 - 8/14/2018 11:19 AM
So I just noticed the PMTT will finish up 2 days before I get to Vermilion. How much worse is the fishing after a big tourney and how long does it take for the fish to "recover"?
As a few others have said, I personally believe weather trumps all, and is something you obviously can't control.
But as far as fishing a lake a couple days after a tournament, especially one like the mega tournament that's going to draw some very talented anglers; I wouldn't like the idea. The most active fish are most likely going to be caught or at least hooked, and the neutral fish are going to have seen a ton of different baits & boats. Look at the results of most of the tournaments throughout the years. Day 1 results are typically much better than Day 2.
Muskies on the fishy spots are going to have seen a ton of baits over the previous few days (as many of the guys will be pre-fishing, too) and some of the guys in that mega tournament are really, really good with rubber, fishing off the beaten path.
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Location: Black Creek, WI | tarpon6 - 8/14/2018 11:19 AM
So I just noticed the PMTT will finish up 2 days before I get to Vermilion. How much worse is the fishing after a big tourney and how long does it take for the fish to "recover"?
I wouldn't worry about it. The morning after the PMTT on V two years ago my buddy and I bagged 4 over 40" in 4 hours before leaving the lake. If the bite is on... its on. If the bite is off... its off. Tourney or not. Enjoy your trip. |
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| Or,,the Frank Schneider tournament is weekend after labor day in September,,see what the results are and maybe there's a hot bite/lake in that area. |
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Location: Chisholm, MN | It would be fun to take bets on fish caught during the mega tournament this year! My guess is 20 in 3 days. |
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| I know who I would bet on,,,this guy won a 160 boat walleye tournament this spring on V,, then he won a bass tournament on V after that,,Now he's fishing for his favorite fish muskie,,if there's 100 teams I'd love to get a 99 to 1 win bet down. |
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| The_Answer - 8/14/2018 3:35 PM
I would take trips to Western MN instead of V if you are looking for Muskie action. The V obviously is beautiful, but if its a hardcore Muskie trip in September, it could and most likely will be tough. Seeing 2, and getting 1 bite per day is pretty solid for V. And by per day, I mean a 16 hour day on the water. Enjoy!
Would hate to fish with debbie downer here! |
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| tarpon6 - 8/14/2018 11:19 AM
So I just noticed the PMTT will finish up 2 days before I get to Vermilion. How much worse is the fishing after a big tourney and how long does it take for the fish to "recover"?
I would worry about it! Like said above, weather trumps all, there might be a tough bite during the tournament and then when your there here comes the musky clouds, mixed with the right wind and its game time for ya! Go bang it and have fun!
Edited by Musky Face 8/14/2018 6:09 PM
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Location: Madison, WI | Just got back from my first trip to Vermilion. 3 guys boated 2 fish in 6 days. One was 30”, and one was 40”. We moved 4 others total. Not exactly what I was expecting. As to all the people saying how beautiful V is, I’d also disagree. The lake is heavily developed and has houses, resorts or pleasure boaters everywhere you look. There were a few spots that had guys throwing muskies baits on them every time we went by no matter what time it was. We also had pontoons cut us off casting or other boats come screaming by full speed within casting distance every single day. That stuff is standard on the Madison chain, but not what I drive 8 hours north for. To me a northern WI lake that’s surrounded by forest and you are one of if not the only boat on the water is much more beautiful. |
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Location: Elko - Lake Vermilion | Kirby Budrow - 8/14/2018 4:34 PM
It would be fun to take bets on fish caught during the mega tournament this year! My guess is 20 in 3 days.
I'll say 48 fish boated..... Some Mighty fine Sticks fishing this one !
Heck, We will boat at least 4-5.....Hmmm....
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| I think a lot of guys give muskies too much credit. We catch fish in the urban fisheries that have clearly been caught more than once. You'll probably only see them once, so if they don't eat, move on... But all this nonsense about pressured fish? Sure, lures have become part of their environment, and a part that clearly is not food. But they're still dumb enough to eat them anyway, and with some regularity to boot. Doom and gloom... And then you have a 6 fish day, throwing the same lures at the same spots that showed no color whatsoever for the last 3 days.
We've had weeks on Eagle where we caught two fish and only saw about 3 others. That's a week on a premier fishery. We've had days on Eagle where we raised two dozen fish in a few hours, caught multiple 45 - 48" fish in half an hour. We've had days where we fished the same weed bed for 4 hours because there were fish coming out of everywhere. We've beaten spots to death for half an hour only to have the guy in the back throw "one last cast" over his shoulder and whack a 53"er where everything but the kitchen sink had gone over that fishes head for the last 50 casts.
They're muskies. They're incredibly stupid despite 10,000 years of evolution, but when you think about it, their only purpose is to eat. If it moves through the water, sooner or later one of the stupid things is going to eat it. It's what they do.
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Location: Chisholm, MN | I’ve never had a 6 fish day |
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Location: Chisholm, MN | danmuskyman - 8/14/2018 6:17 PM
Just got back from my first trip to Vermilion. 3 guys boated 2 fish in 6 days. One was 30”, and one was 40”. We moved 4 others total. Not exactly what I was expecting. As to all the people saying how beautiful V is, I’d also disagree. The lake is heavily developed and has houses, resorts or pleasure boaters everywhere you look. There were a few spots that had guys throwing muskies baits on them every time we went by no matter what time it was. We also had pontoons cut us off casting or other boats come screaming by full speed within casting distance every single day. That stuff is standard on the Madison chain, but not what I drive 8 hours north for. To me a northern WI lake that’s surrounded by forest and you are one of if not the only boat on the water is much more beautiful.
Pretty much what we’re warning people about. This is the norm for vermilion. |
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| Muskies may be "stupid" ... but, they are wired to respond to certain things at certain times... in different ways. With that being said... every fish can be wired a little differently... and respond differently... even on the same water. This is especially true on waters like Lake of the Woods where you have multiple strains of Muskies... and stocked waters where multiple strains have been stocked.
Stupid? Maybe. Systematic? Absolutely.
Edited by Reelwise 8/14/2018 7:31 PM
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| you are fishing the wrong water
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Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | Agreed |
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Location: Chicago | This will be the first year I won’t be fishing up on V since ‘03. Sort of just had that feeling the last three years or so that a new adventure somewhere else was not that bad an idea. I don’t have to read a thing on these boards or look at anything the DNR puts out I can rely on my own data set and experience and say that those days are behind us. I only hope I can replicate a fraction of the experiences I have had on Vermillion. Adrenaline fueled nights, pandemonium filled boats and a pride in success that would fill me through the hard water season. We worked our asses off and the rewards were bountiful, but ever increasingly the hard work, an efficient smart approach has not yielded the results I come to expect. Straight up war out there and we loved every minute off it. It’s all I know of late seems a long time ago popping jackpots up in the Northwest Angle. Looking forward to a new adventure and tangling with giants. Pressure, normalization i won’t get into any of that it’s a Musky there are no set rules, but when you do look at the numbers of what’s been being put in coupled with mortality and time you have the current reality of musky fishing Vermillion. Maybe the DNR got scared at the growth of these fish while we were sticking monsters around the state? Because I don’t think I will consider any sort of reasoning The DNR will theorize as to why you let some of the most sensational musky fisheries in North America fade away from what now seems like the good old days.
Edited by jaycbs74 8/14/2018 11:11 PM
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Location: Minneapolis, MN | Not a debby downer actually  I am just a facts type guy.
Musky Face - 8/14/2018 6:00 PM
The_Answer - 8/14/2018 3:35 PM
I would take trips to Western MN instead of V if you are looking for Muskie action. The V obviously is beautiful, but if its a hardcore Muskie trip in September, it could and most likely will be tough. Seeing 2, and getting 1 bite per day is pretty solid for V. And by per day, I mean a 16 hour day on the water. Enjoy!
Would hate to fish with debbie downer here! |
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Location: Chisholm, MN | The_Answer - 8/15/2018 6:40 AM
Not a debby downer actually I am just a facts type guy.
Musky Face - 8/14/2018 6:00 PM
The_Answer - 8/14/2018 3:35 PM
I would take trips to Western MN instead of V if you are looking for Muskie action. The V obviously is beautiful, but if its a hardcore Muskie trip in September, it could and most likely will be tough. Seeing 2, and getting 1 bite per day is pretty solid for V. And by per day, I mean a 16 hour day on the water. Enjoy!
Would hate to fish with debbie downer here!
How is this being a downer? It's just the way vermilion is now. Sure you get a good week here and there where you catch a few nice ones, but the average day would look like this, or even worse. |
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Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | Kirby Budrow - 8/15/2018 8:23 AM
The_Answer - 8/15/2018 6:40 AM
Not a debby downer actually I am just a facts type guy.
Musky Face - 8/14/2018 6:00 PM
The_Answer - 8/14/2018 3:35 PM
I would take trips to Western MN instead of V if you are looking for Muskie action. The V obviously is beautiful, but if its a hardcore Muskie trip in September, it could and most likely will be tough. Seeing 2, and getting 1 bite per day is pretty solid for V. And by per day, I mean a 16 hour day on the water. Enjoy!
Would hate to fish with debbie downer here!
How is this being a downer? It's just the way vermilion is now. Sure you get a good week here and there where you catch a few nice ones, but the average day would look like this, or even worse.
Proving out the concept that the pressure will fall off, and the catch rate will improve. Happens all the time on our small water over here, George is a perfect example. The population is what the lake is being managed for, with good year class distribution, but it's seriously tougher to catch a fish now in a daisy chain of muskie boats on 500 plus acres. Lately the word is out George is 'not good anymore'. Perfect. |
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| He's just stating the facts! |
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Location: Minnesota. | The_Answer - 8/15/2018 6:40 AM
Not a debby downer actually I am just a facts type guy.
Musky Face - 8/14/2018 6:00 PM
The_Answer - 8/14/2018 3:35 PM
I would take trips to Western MN instead of V if you are looking for Muskie action. The V obviously is beautiful, but if its a hardcore Muskie trip in September, it could and most likely will be tough. Seeing 2, and getting 1 bite per day is pretty solid for V. And by per day, I mean a 16 hour day on the water. Enjoy!
Would hate to fish with debbie downer here!
Just came back from another fabulous, fun-filled but fishless week on one of the most beautiful lakes in my world!
Tossed Suicks, bucktails even a few topwaters and then more Suicks on most if not all of my fav. spots for the 1st 3 full days out. Weeds, rocks, deep bars and shallow bars, shorelines and you name it. Got lots'a exercise and saw VERY, VERY FEW boats on any given day. The place was VACANT!
I never got the memo!
Took a couple walleyes. Had to peek to see if they actually had teeth! One big tap, down 19' and a lot of heavy, heavy head-shakes (28"-30" wally???). Nah, just a fat, healthy smallie. A joy any other time but not when I'm tinkling for walleyes...dam##it!!
No teeth. No spots. NADA!
The Answer got it right. Same as Kirby.
Believe me it was DEAD!!!!!!
The best times, the campfires with friends. And that bottle of wine with my wife. Maybe it was actually a bottle of "whine"???? But I'll never go back in August again!
Edited by Jeremy 8/25/2018 5:50 PM
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