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Posts: 906
Location: Warroad, Mn | Still disagree! Not much "CRAP" either and they come up way too late for muskie survival! I'm fishing Smallies in June. Wasn't uncommon to catch a small muskie (or some times a big one) Don't see that much any more. Not much for weeds left!
Edited by dougj 7/23/2018 7:26 PM
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Posts: 153
| Kirby Budrow - 7/23/2018 1:55 PM
Dan Klis - 7/23/2018 11:08 AM
My two cents? Reproductive success is declining, success is the key word. Without the weeds beds to offer cover and protection the chance that a fingerling can grow into a fish that can protect itself, is hard to imagine. 30 years ago we would maybe catch one of two pike per year. Now they are everywhere. Guess what those pike eat fingerling muskie.
The pressure is unbelievable. And the number of dead fish in unbelievable as well.
For those that did not fish the lake prior the rusty's they have no idea the affect. The lake is becoming more in-fertile. Entire islands were surrounded by cabbage.
Like my neighbor (DJ), glad I fished the last 30 years and not the next.
I'm seeing more and more veteran muskie hunters take less and less of an interest because of how bad the fishing is these days. I always tell my wife after shes's frustrated with not catching anything that it's too bad you weren't muskie fishing with me even 10 years ago. You'd have a lot more follows and bites, with a lot less people pounding the spots. I only started fishing lake of the woods 3 years ago and I feel like I'm on vermilion some days with how much pressure I'm seeing. I thought I was going there to escape, but you can't escape the mob!
Kirby - I can say that I have become less interested in the past few years. Although I love my time on the lake and get to spend of time there, Muskie fishing is not as fun for me as it was. I used to enjoy the solitude of fishing LOTW and maybe seeing A couple boats per day. I am spoiled, but can’t change what’s going on.
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| Well we can disagree, but why are you on lotw talking about weeds an hour before sunset in July???? 
Edited by IAJustin 7/23/2018 7:54 PM
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Location: Warroad, Mn | Because I can! I can go every day if I want. Im also almost 80! I've already caught my limit! |
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Location: Lake Country, Wisconsin | The results up there so far this year are very interesting....there are definetely some monster trips still being put together, as good as ever. Then again, there are more “tough” trips being reported than I have ever seen as well.
I heard the MH school caught 55? That’s wayyyyyy off the norm, which is usually 120+.
Edited by Musky Brian 7/23/2018 8:49 PM
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Location: oswego, il | Isn't the water level way down this year? That will change how fish use spots if at all.
Edited by ToddM 7/23/2018 9:11 PM
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Posts: 1636
| While there are still good numbers of weeds to be found... most of these weeds are in locations there have always been weeds... and are prime spawning grounds for other species such as Pike. A lot of these spots/areas... are also areas that have a much softer bottom. Not to mention... they are not always the best spots for Muskies throughout the rest of the season.
Much of the weeds on the harder bottom areas... and locations that may not be preferred or heavily populated by other species, such as Pike, are gone. These are not only areas where spawning can take place... but, these are also areas where Muskies spend much of their time outside the spawning season. With lesser weeds... or no weeds at all... that is only taking away an element not only Muskies may prefer... but, forage fish as well.
I understand that some may think the 'lack of weeds' talk is only an excuse for lesser quality fishing... but, it is a reality and a good reason for why the fishing has changed throughout the years.
Edited by Reelwise 7/23/2018 11:04 PM
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Posts: 1636
| Seems like we got more fish in "random" spots 15 years ago...
A lot of the hot spots are still good hot spots.
So, good numbers are still being had... and it doesn't surprise me considering you can predict their location fairly well... but, it just seemed like the phantom fish are now more phantom-like. |
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| If the weeds are taken away, they are taken away for all the fish, not just the muskies. The forage went somewhere also.
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| Brad P - 7/24/2018 9:11 AM
If the weeds are taken away, they are taken away for all the fish, not just the muskies. The forage went somewhere also.
Exactly! Or the forage no longer has protection and cover
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Posts: 331
Location: Stevens Point, Wisconsin | I think more fish spawn out on mid lake structure than we give credit for, or at least they are present on mid lake rock structure prior to the muskie season being open. Whether they are just there following bait fish or actually spawning is another question.
I think the declining weed beds (green cabbage in W / SW facing bays) and (submergent green cabbage along portions of island and main shorelines) is largely to blame for the lower numbers in shallow packs of fish from opener to mid July, but I think there are other factors perhaps that might contribute to less contact with fish in the past 5 years or so. Water levels are better regulated now than when I first started fishing in 1998. The better control has really cleaned up the water. I can remember trips where you couldn't fish certain areas because they were like chocolate milk. I don't think I have seen that kind of dirty water in over 10 years. Along with the cleaner water you seldom catch long skinny fish. This of course can be attributed to more open water fish following packs of bait fish around, but also a higher success rate for muskies targeting baitfish. The cleaner water provides a better opportunity I suppose for muskies to catch their pray. The cleaner water also helps fish identify us and our baits. Fish tailing off half way to the boat never really happened 10 years ago. Yes, pressure has a lot to do with this but water clarity is a contributing factor as well. IMO
The other interesting thing that I believe correlates to the reduced shallow fish is the sharp decline in top water action. For those of us that have fished the lake for 20 years or more can attest to literally throwing top water all day and it was just as effective as a bucktail! Again pressure has a lot to do with declining top water action but I wonder if fish that lived in close proximity to shallow cover all summer preyed on ducks, and small surface swimming rodents and therefore were more likely to eat our top water. Conversely open water fish that slide shallow are less likely to be fooled. Yes we still catch fish on top water but not like it was. Pressure is a large part but when the fish in the whole area act the same even in low pressure areas it must have something to do with a biological change?
I have changed a lot and have adapted to these changes and have altered my approach, but there are at times some fish behavior hard to explain when conditions are, or should be perfect.
Pressure, loss of shallow weed structure, cleaner water, fatter fish (better predator success rates), and weather have created a perfect storm IMO. Still great fishing and no better place on earth IMO to cast for muskie.
On a side note... one of the things I really miss is those secondary spots that had submergent strips of green cabbage in various stretches of shoreline. Those spots held multiple fish every time you fished them and the packs would be there until you caught them or hooked them, then another pack would move it. It really spread the pressure out! Of course the sandy bays always held multiple fish that resided there almost all season as well. The bays are still good but not like they once were! Now like I said the lake fishes smaller and spots get pounded with much more pressure.
Ed |
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Location: Lake Country, Wisconsin | Interesting post by Ed...I agree on several fronts. The elimination of those smaller strips of weeds you would find on a small stretch of island or shore really hurt. Those were absolutely money from east to west across the whole lake. Used to constantly pull multiples out of those...those hurt me more than the big bays which I rarely fish. I think those were easier to stay hidden from people too.
Also agree with the topwater...my boat just hasn’t seen results with it like the hype suggests. At best, average action on that front for normal Canadian standards. I know a few others here have done well though on that front and might disagree
As far as the water clarity....I feel like Sabaskong is also experiencing the dip in numbers, and the water out that way is still pretty darn dark. That would kind of counteract that theory. There were a ton of people complaining last year about how tough the bite was and some people up there out of Morson said it was in line with the worst they have ever seen. We got our tails kicked up that way for 3 days last time I was up there but also didn’t know many spots so...hard to say
Edited by Musky Brian 7/24/2018 12:28 PM
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Posts: 457
Location: Minneconia | So with the destruction of weed beds by rustles, and correlating effects on musky behavior, I wonder if eventually the crayfish population will crash after the rapid explosion and everything will equalize at some point? I realize this would be measured in many years instead of a few. Maybe some weed growth will eventually return but not in the amount LOTW previously had as well as a stabilized and much smaller rusty population?
I have fished Sabaskong on and off since 2003, and the Angle a couple times in between. Anecdotally, my catch #'s are probably down slightly per hour over that time after thinking about it, but I would say I see less fish overall and less active following fish per hour than the early into late 2000's.
Very interesting subject, it's great to read everyone's take and experience regarding the topic. |
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Location: SE, WI. | Dan Klis - 7/24/2018 10:31 AM
Brad P - 7/24/2018 9:11 AM
If the weeds are taken away, they are taken away for all the fish, not just the muskies. The forage went somewhere also.
Exactly! Or the forage no longer has protection and cover
YES and NO
What about the ski's that feed on whitefish and Tulibee. NO cover for them. EXCEPT! They school up and look big. SO does perch and walleye stack, Crappies/ Xmas tree, and bluegills pod up. Talking to the walleye guys on the woods, they catch eyes, the perch and crappie ALL together!!! This occurs in all our inland lakes!!! Fish suspend all the time. This is their protection, OPEN WATER...to school up and look big...NOW
Is it easier for a musky to feed open water, OR, around Rock, Rock walls, and WEEDS...?
I think it's easier for them to feed around the ladder. Musky push their prey against structure. Think there's contrast there, and limited water to escape. Your boat, is an object they pin your bait against.
Open water is endless, and fish can dodge any way they want. Yes, one piece of bait vacates the pod, and their meat.
Bottom line is...I believe the ski's are still their, we as fisherman need to adjust, and be more versatile than just chuckin, and winding a tail, or topwater.
We just got back from LOTW's, struggling our first 8 days catching 12, then made adjustments and got 14 in 4 days.
It's fishing, they adapt, NOW YOU ADAPT!!!
JD
Edited by jdsplasher 7/24/2018 4:16 PM
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Location: Stevens Point, Wisconsin | Dirt Esox - 7/24/2018 1:10 PM
So with the destruction of weed beds by rustles, and correlating effects on musky behavior, I wonder if eventually the crayfish population will crash after the rapid explosion and everything will equalize at some point? I realize this would be measured in many years instead of a few. Maybe some weed growth will eventually return but not in the amount LOTW previously had as well as a stabilized and much smaller rusty population?
From what I understand the Rusties invaded Kenora over 50 years ago and they once had nice weed beds. So far from what I hear after 50 years those weed beds have not recovered. I was amazed at how fast they devastated the weeds through the NW Angle and now heading SE. How soon until they reach Morson area?
I will add that I didn't see but a few fish under 34" my last trip. I would say 75% of the fish we raised were over 40 with a lot of mid to upper 40 inch fish. To put that in perspective on average we would see 15-25 fish a day. Typically what I have seen in late June early July is after the spawn the larger fish slide out for a bit and small males move shallow for a bit and then the larger females slide shallow again. Sure hope the lack of smaller fish has nothing to do with reproduction decline and was just a timing thing. Good news was that we did see a lot of really good fish.
Edited by MuskyTime 7/24/2018 2:41 PM
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Location: Lake Country, Wisconsin | Morson area must already be hit. Had a few different guys mark up a map for us and any of the weed spots marked were basically toast minus that spaghetti-weed junk...this was in 2016.
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Location: Cedarburg, WI. | Just got back from Sioux Narrows area. Water is down and we boated 4 in a week (all between 37-45") and had another 5 either go around on the 8, follow or lost after a hookset. Also had half a dozen pike in the 30-36" range. |
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Location: Fifield | The best advice on Muskie fishing I ever got was from Doug J.
I was young and kinda green and on my first trip to LOTW. I had question after question about things I have heard or read about. Doug said to me "son, the Muskies up here don't read books". I think about that every year and every year a slightly different pattern exists. I hope to figure out a pattern next week up there. |
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Location: Warroad, Mn | Yes I remember that!
About all I can say is that I hope the LOTWs, the Muskies and Mother Nature figures this all out. They probably will, at least I hope so.
In the mean time the LOTWs is still one of the best muskie fisheries in North America, and one of the beautiful places in the world. My favorite place to be.
Good luck to every one who comes to the LOTWs! |
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| Fished LOTW 24 years lots of changes happening but when not seeing big fish up shallow I start trolling fall spots and always connect with a few good fish and would of never though of that 10 plus years ago !!
Darren |
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Posts: 300
| I’ve only recently started fishing LOTW...the last two years...and each time my father and I have stayed for a full week. First year we caught 6 fish and second year we caught 7. I was slightly disappointed with those numbers, but the way you guys are talking apparently I should be happy. This thread sounds like doomsday. |
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| MuskyTime - 7/24/2018 12:34 PM
I think more fish spawn out on mid lake structure than we give credit for, or at least they are present on mid lake rock structure prior to the muskie season being open. Whether they are just there following bait fish or actually spawning is another question.
Agreed.
Pretty much echo'd what I posted. |
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| One 53 inch fish is = to about 37 sub 40" fish.... So who cares about numbers!! |
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| Just tumbling a few thoughts around in my head.
With the reduced weeds, is it possible that fish are just leaving those shallow areas more quickly early in the year compared to in the past when the nice weeds would hold them longer during their transition to later summer areas. Ie., if the fish are moving out sooner, is spending a lot of time fishing shallow in June/July really just fishing memories? There's not as many weeds, so they can't hold as many fish, so the fish move out sooner? The guys who mostly fish rocks in later summer have never caught as many fish as those in the early July peak, and you don't hear as much from them about changes having a negative impact on numbers.
Also, there's a "lull" in September as the fish leave late summer spots and aren't yet on the October feeding spots. Is there a similar kind of early summer lull developing as the fish are recovering from the spawn out deeper rather than in weedy areas?
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Location: Lake Country, Wisconsin | Any conversation that doesn’t include pressure as at least somewhat of a factor is a non starter to me. The month of July up there has become outrageous. And don’t discount the floaters people are seeing....that’s very alarming, and I’ve seen a few as well. That’s just the type of stuff you weren’t really seeing before.
Edited by Musky Brian 7/25/2018 8:21 AM
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| And don’t discount the floaters people are seeing....that’s very alarming.
Yes, although it's probably less alarming than the number of fish that were harvested without being seen prior to the 54" size limit being put in place.
Here is what the Muskies Inc Lunge Log data shows, as a representative sample over the last 10 years.
Edited by undersized 7/25/2018 10:07 AM
(MuskiesInc-LotW-10yr-Resize.jpg)
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Location: Lake Country, Wisconsin | Hard to determine what that data is really saying though. With increased anglers you’d get increased entries.
There were 2 official outings last week I am aware of...Flatlanders Outing did 24 guys, 75 fish. MH school (usual 25 guys) did a brutal 53. That’s well below 3 fish per guy.
Tournament out of Wiley’s a couple weeks ago, with several guide boats and locals...I think I saw 17 boats (34 guys) caught 25 fish in a 2 day tournament?
As always..ton of variables. Skill/weather/timing blah blah blah But I’m starting to see more of these types of results than what I would consider to be the average norm.
I’m doing my trip in 2 weeks, so I’m just going by what I’m seeing. Which, to be fair, are also still some very strong trips. Nelson has assured me 40 is a lock in his boat
Edited by Musky Brian 7/25/2018 11:40 AM
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Location: Contrarian Island | hey now 40? lol. I think all lakes go thru cycles, even huges ones like lotw... the thread makes me think it is simply a combination of ALL factors... more pressure, less weeds leading to less reproduction sucess, maybe a small % of delayed mortality and maybe baitfish moving out deeper. do I personally think the fish are still there, yes, a higher % may just be following around schools of baitfish more and don't come shallow as much where the summer anglers are casting for them.... say 10 or 15 yrs ago, more fish were possibly being caught by avg anglers as they were "easier" to target, you could run down any shoreline and wack a couple or pull into any cabbage bay knowing full well there ARE fish in there..so they are easier where avg anglers can get them... it simply takes adjusting where and how you fish to have a good week. skill level is more important now than ever... almost becoming "Eagle-esque"??
Edited by BNelson 7/25/2018 11:36 AM
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| Never got to fish the lake while it had weeds. But in my time of fishing LOTW and the Winnipeg river pressure has increased dramatically in the last 10-15 years. In my experience weed growth can be the great equalizer when it comes to fishing pressure. The fish have a more stable environment, they have more habitat, and it just helps reduce pressure. Coming in behind a boat that just fished a very thick weedbed I can still feel sorta confident because they might have missed the pocket or point that is holding the active fish. Pulling up to a bare rock point or reef? Why bother. You are playing a timing game coin flip.
If the twin city metro fishery that I spend the vast majority of my time on was a bunch of weedless rock lakes I would not be a musky fisherman.... The weeds are critical from fishing pressure standpoint.
Does the OMNR do any evaluations on the lake of any type? The loss of fishing cabbage really sucks for us but there are still large nursery areas in the Morson area full of mixed weeds. I only know of one spot with cabbage and I'm not going out of my way to fish it. Can they grow up in those nursery areas then move out? |
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Location: Warroad, Mn | At one time their was an OMNR Fishery Biologist, Tom Mosindy, (I think now retired), Who did what he called the Select Muskie Anglers Survey. This started sometime in the early 90's or so. I participated in this. A number of full time muskie guides and resorts (ones who Tom thought would tell the truth) kept track of their muskie fishing success. We would keep track of the number of fish caught, the size of the fish, the number of fish seen, the number of people fishing, the number of hours fished, and the general areas fished. From that he could calculate the catch/unit effort (how long did you fish to catch a fish). The average size (going up or down), maximum size (sort of), some of the population dynamics (going up or down), areas of the lake that where the best for muskie reproduction. And probably several more things. We would do is for a two year period, then skip two years and then do two more. This went on for around ten years. Don't think this being done anymore.
Somewhere I have the reports that I used to get. They where very interesting.
Yes, pressure is very much a factor. We have a decreasing number of fishable spots due to the loss of weed growth, with an increasing number of fishermen. Bad combination!
Edited by dougj 7/25/2018 5:00 PM
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