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Posts: 901
| I did forget to mention that we are not early risers. We have a theory that muskies don't bite on LOTW before 11:00 am !!!
I would say we average leaving the dock by 10:15 am, but never come in, unless we are blown off by a storm which rarely happens. So 10:15 am until dark in late July is a solid day on the water.
The reason we don't fish early is because we like to drink around the camp fire and reminisce. When you don't get in to camp until 10:00 pm and you start having beers and BSing ... it becomes 1:00 am in a hurry!
To us it's as much about that as it is about the fishing.
Ball Cap
Edited by MuskyMidget 7/18/2018 8:59 PM
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Posts: 1636
| Regardless of the big numbers others put up... if you can catch at least one per day... you had a good week. Believe it or not... many people go up to Lake of the Woods and do not catch a single Muskie - all week. Some only catch a few. A lot of the people who put 10-25+ fish in the boat in one week have a lot of experience on the lake or they get a lot of help from other people. With that being said... guys who have never been on the lake and are not given any information have done well, too. Like others have mentioned... it can take a lot of work and long hours to catch a lot of fish - even on Lake of the Woods. This goes without having to say it.
Good luck next time you make it out! |
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Posts: 14
| Fished NW Angle July7-14th. Four guys 34 Muskies. |
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Posts: 104
| I don't think it has been mentioned yet. My guess is that the guys reporting high numbers are boats with anglers performing excellent figure 8's. There are weeks when 90% of the fish are caught on the 8. |
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Location: Contrarian Island | we haven't seen that high of % in the 8 over our 6 trips. I'd guess it is more in the 45-50% range but yes, a good figure 8 is key on any water...
Edited by BNelson 7/19/2018 9:12 AM
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Posts: 331
Location: Stevens Point, Wisconsin | Oh how things have changed in 20 years.....
My expectations have changed also. Best year I can recall was 2006 when I was up for 16 days. Fist 7 days I put 40 in the boat. Next 2 days a buddy and me put 18 more in the net and the final 7 days me and another buddy put 25 and 23 respectively in the net.
Not those kinds of weeks so much anymore. So much has changed as far as fish holding structure on the lake in the last 10 years (loss of weed structure). The lake fishes smaller and you still might have the occasional 5-8 fish days but stringing 3 or 4 of those days together doesn't happen much anymore.
I have had discussions with other guys on what is happening on lotw and I think for the most part we are still trying to figure it out. Definitely there has been a change in baitfish patterns and as said before musky holding structure. I believe that the shallow packs of fish that once held close to weeds and had cover and food now roam off the breaks and follow baitfish around. Fish do still slide up shallow and on mid lake rocks and you can have great days running and gunning when the rock bite is on, but throw in some crappy weather and negative fish like the last three weeks and it can make for some long weeks.
Still a great place to chase fish and if you time it right you can have a blast! This year July has been not so good. Some days where they have really turned on but a lot of days of sluggish fish. I would say if a guy can average 2 fish a day he is doing well. Most guys fishing this year in July would take that! But with that said you can put a lot more in the boat if all the stars line up and you are not afraid to run and gun and burn gas! Right Mr. Nelson 
Ed
Edited by MuskyTime 7/19/2018 9:57 AM
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Posts: 901
| 39 degrees makes an excellent point. Our conversion rate went up astronomically once we learned how to figure 8 better.
We haven't kept track, but I would guess at least 75% of our fish come on the figure 8.
Honestly, we laugh when we catch one long line because it doesn't happen very often.
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Posts: 425
Location: Roseau | I have been fishing the lake for around 20 years, have a place at the Angle and parents have had a place up there since I was 10. Been keeping track of hours fished per fish and we are at 4 hours. I don't fish a ton but go out a few hours here and there every weekend in the summer and do a 3-5 day trolling trip in the fall that is sun up to sun down. Go days without a fish and have had up to 8 fish days. I see someone said July has been slow, it has bee really good for us, you never know!! |
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Posts: 289
Location: Minneapolis | As others have said, the area of Lake of the Woods makes a big difference. Fishing Whitefish Bay could mean 1-3 fish for the week. |
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Location: SE, WI. | MuskyTime - 7/19/2018 9:50 AM
Oh how things have changed in 20 years.....
My expectations have changed also. Best year I can recall was 2006 when I was up for 16 days. Fist 7 days I put 40 in the boat. Next 2 days a buddy and me put 18 more in the net and the final 7 days me and another buddy put 25 and 23 respectively in the net.
Not those kinds of weeks so much anymore. So much has changed as far as fish holding structure on the lake in the last 10 years (loss of weed structure ). The lake fishes smaller and you still might have the occasional 5-8 fish days but stringing 3 or 4 of those days together doesn't happen much anymore.
I have had discussions with other guys on what is happening on lotw and I think for the most part we are still trying to figure it out. Definitely there has been a change in baitfish patterns and as said before musky holding structure. I believe that the shallow packs of fish that once held close to weeds and had cover and food now roam off the breaks and follow baitfish around. Fish do still slide up shallow and on mid lake rocks and you can have great days running and gunning when the rock bite is on, but throw in some crappy weather and negative fish like the last three weeks and it can make for some long weeks.
Still a great place to chase fish and if you time it right you can have a blast! This year July has been not so good. Some days where they have really turned on but a lot of days of sluggish fish. I would say if a guy can average 2 fish a day he is doing well. Most guys fishing this year in July would take that! But with that said you can put a lot more in the boat if all the stars line up and you are not afraid to run and gun and burn gas! Right Mr. Nelson
Ed
Ed brings up some good points. And yes, we have discussed changes that have taken place.
So many variables play into every trip. We just returned from a frustrating trip as far as weather goes. A lot of wind kept us from fishing spots and areas we wanted to target.
(What is wrong with these weather people predicting winds. ) Every day, just add 8-10 MPH to predicted winds: ) Sheesh
Anyways, getting back to the woods, Yes, very tough to go fish shorelines like back in the late 90's, early 2000's, and boat 5-8 fish daily. I've seen classic areas, simply pounded to death, NOW you rarely see a boat fish those areas any more. Why? Fish seem to have vacated those areas, Or did they?
Fisherman really need to be versatile, and adjust to their new haunts. Fish seemed to have moved. Talked to several musky guys that were raising only 1-2 fish a day.
Just returned from a 12 day trip, boated 12 first 6 days, then got skunked 2 days in a row, then finished strong with 14 last 4 days. 7 over 45", and lost 3 big fish with boat side strikes in that stretch. Weather moving in the last 2 days, was the difference. A lot of Sun seemed to hurt our bite. Some of our bite, which I see nobody doing, is off the breaks, steep walls, and deeper humps.
Been talking to walleye guys the past 3 years. They concour that they are catching more musky, and having their catches stole by more musky than in the past.
With a 54" size limit, there should be more musky than ever, YET, fishing seems to be more of a grind. Maybe mishandling of fish could be the only reason why some are not making it. I've talked with several guides, and resort owners that said, after the Muskie schools, they have seen several musky floating. I have not seen it, since I am usually leaving right with the schools. I've had big,BIG name people tell me not to be holding fish up for photos any more, that I don't need another picture when water temps are warm, then to turn around and see them holding fish up out of the water next winter on a TV show during that same time frame!!! We rarely net a fish any more under 46. A pinch of the hook, and say goodbye, ensures that fish to grow to 50". Unless a fish is hooked deep, or has all three trebles, and to keep the angler safe, then only do we net the fish. A lot of water release shots NOW! We as anglers need to take catch and release to a whole new level to maintain fisheries to thrive.Been fishing the woods since 99, and have yet to catch a fish over 53". SO! Fish have to still be there, YET, some weeks their on, some off!
Thomas, I would guess that if you never fished the woods, you could catch 1 a day, with help from other fishers, maybe 2 a day.
JD Edited by jdsplasher 7/22/2018 8:05 AM
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Posts: 304
| Ed and Jim: yes. |
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Posts: 23
| daiwaguy do you mind saying what type of structure you were fishing? we were there at the same time. I left 3 days early. we have been going around that time for last 5 years. we typically catch 35-50 for 8-10 guys. we only caught 10 for the week. seemed to see most in green cabbage but would only follow. some on rock points in monument early but not rest of week. we fish a fair sized area over the week
thx |
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Location: Warroad, Mn | All I can say is that I'm glad I got to fish the lake the last 50 years and not the next 50 years. Still a great place, but many changes in the past 15 years. Biggest change is the lack of weed growth. I suspect this maybe hurting reproduction.
Edited by dougj 7/22/2018 11:26 AM
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Posts: 1636
| While some of the good weed spots are either gone or not as good as they once were (mainly bays)... a lot of what we would look at and believe to be a good spot... as far as deeper breaklines, points, spines, and current areas - seem to be regular producers. A lot of these spots are near areas that used to have good weed growth... or used to provide good weed growth themselves. So, these deeper spots were either always good spots, or it is possible that instead of using shallow water with no cover... many of those fish now resort to deeper water and use the depth, current, and bottom for cover.
At certain times... water temperature and sunlight or lackthereof might bring Muskies up shallow, regardless of there being weeds or not. But, weeds also provide cover and can attract forage... so, if there are neither of the two... there is no reason for a Muskie to use that area for anything other than comfort.
The idea that there may also be less fish on rock reefs now than in the past can challenge this... however, the rock reefs that are now less productive may be farther away from good spawning areas... and some rock reefs used to provide good weeds.
Spots that used to be good when there were good weeds... that are and can still be good are... saddles. They usually provide a number of different elements such as sand, current, and forage. At times... those things can attract a Muskie just as much as the weeds.
While I have not fished Lake of the Woods for as long as guys like Doug... the changes everyone speaks of did not seem to take very long.
Just some ideas. I could be out of my mind...
Edited by Reelwise 7/22/2018 2:20 PM
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Posts: 133
| I'm certainly no expert but I do have a fair amount of time under my belt over the last 10 years or so... I feel like I get very few days the fish are "on" the past couple years. Days for me to have muskies ripping hard after a bucktail have certainly decreased quite a bit actually. The fish are still in or around the spots that I fish tho, I will rework spots with a low slow moving lure just to try to see if there are fish in the vicinity and alot of times (too many times) sure enough there was a fish on the spot.... Just had no interest in chasing something down!!! |
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Posts: 38
Location: Lakeville, MN | Just got back from a week trip, my boat got 22 muskies, with three 48.5 and above, a decent week for my boat. Definitely tried different areas and techniques, it was rewarding when it paid off. There are a lot more pressured fish now, getting a bucktail slammed in popular areas usually meant it was a smaller fish or it was at very ideal fishing times.
I saw 2 or 3 dead muskies on shorelines, haven't seen that before in my 8 yrs going up there. If in doubt, cut the hooks and bring extra hooks!
My biggest lesson? Bring a very long extension cord and be prepared to charge the trolling motor batteries from the cabin. I'll start another thread about that but it wasn't fun getting up on a very good weather day, only to find out that someone unplugged my cord to stop the dock circuit breaker from tripping, apparently due to too many boats charging. Totally changed our fishing day, in the precious little time I get to fish up there - probably would have caught a couple more. Bad musky karma for some jerk out there |
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Location: Contrarian Island | my take on it is there are still roughly the same amount of fish in the lake, they are simply getting spread out over more boats and relating to bait and/or structure deeper than most of us are casting... I hope the doom and gloom of decreased reproduction is not correct... we have seen about the same # of fish over the 6 trips I have been on … last year we saw more over 50 than any other trip by a long shot...guys are reporting seeing lots of low to mid 30s so they are still reproducing well … at least I hope.
Edited by BNelson 7/22/2018 4:47 PM
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Posts: 1767
Location: Lake Country, Wisconsin | I’m not quite ready to say reproduction is an issue yet...it could be, but I don’t think that’s the main culprit behind reduced numbers on trips. The crayfish obviously have done a number on the weeds and have basically destroyed a ton of great fishing spots. Combine that with what I feel are the most anglers the area has seen from a historical norm and you have a potentially negative combination of factors. Throw in people owning nicer boats with great electronics and mapping too. Less good spots plus more guys sharing these spots equals less of a chance to find “fresh” fish. Those spots without weeds now are often no longer prime ambush areas and the fish are possibly roaming around more. These weeks in which the conditions aren’t condusive to fish being up shallow and active on rocks are hurting the average catch rate. I’ve been bailed out in past years by turning to weeds and getting reaction bites when they are sluggish...now with those mostly eradicated, it’s time to make some changes (when needed) and really start keying in on small details. Obviously you can still have a very good trip, but I think the possibility of an “off” week with a lower floor is also greater than what it once was.
.....anyways, I think we need more Musky Schools/Camps/Outings/Seminars up there. The 50 current ones just aren’t enough and there’s still some fish out there to be caught!
Edited by Musky Brian 7/23/2018 9:31 AM
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Posts: 425
Location: Roseau | I am fishing completely different than previous years, best year by far so far.
New spots, different lures, different tactics. I am seeing large pike in big numbers also. I have my boy with me all the time he is 10 and picked up a 45" pike Saturday. Many pike in the 40-42" also. I gave up on my go to bays and weed spots, used to be mainly a weed guy too. Hope this trend continues!
Good luck |
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Posts: 2687
Location: Hayward, WI | Fisher - 7/23/2018 9:39 AM
I am fishing completely different than previous years, best year by far so far.
New spots, different lures, different tactics. I am seeing large pike in big numbers also. I have my boy with me all the time he is 10 and picked up a 45" pike Saturday. Many pike in the 40-42" also. I gave up on my go to bays and weed spots, used to be mainly a weed guy too. Hope this trend continues!
Good luck
Interesting. Are you fishing deeper? Being more of a cooler water fish I'm sometimes surprised at how many bigger pike are caught in warm shallow water up there. |
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Posts: 1901
Location: MN | Musky Brian - 7/23/2018 9:27 AM
I’m not quite ready to say reproduction is an issue yet...it could be, but I don’t think that’s the main culprit behind reduced numbers on trips. The crayfish obviously have done a number on the weeds and have basically destroyed a ton of great fishing spots. Combine that with what I feel are the most anglers the area has seen from a historical norm and you have a potentially negative combination of factors. Throw in people owning nicer boats with great electronics and mapping too. Less good spots plus more guys sharing these spots equals less of a chance to find “fresh” fish. Those spots without weeds now are often no longer prime ambush areas and the fish are possibly roaming around more. These weeks in which the conditions aren’t condusive to fish being up shallow and active on rocks are hurting the average catch rate. I’ve been bailed out in past years by turning to weeds and getting reaction bites when they are sluggish...now with those mostly eradicated, it’s time to make some changes (when needed) and really start keying in on small details. Obviously you can still have a very good trip, but I think the possibility of an “off” week with a lower floor is also greater than what it once was
.....anyways, I think we need more Musky Schools/Camps/Outings/Seminars up there. The 50 current ones just aren’t enough and there’s still some fish out there to be caught!
Spot on, and yes let's have more schools. |
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Posts: 153
| My two cents? Reproductive success is declining, success is the key word. Without the weeds beds to offer cover and protection the chance that a fingerling can grow into a fish that can protect itself, is hard to imagine. 30 years ago we would maybe catch one of two pike per year. Now they are everywhere. Guess what those pike eat fingerling muskie.
The pressure is unbelievable. And the number of dead fish in unbelievable as well.
For those that did not fish the lake prior the rusty's they have no idea the affect. The lake is becoming more in-fertile. Entire islands were surrounded by cabbage.
Like my neighbor (DJ), glad I fished the last 30 years and not the next.
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Location: Chisholm, MN | Dan Klis - 7/23/2018 11:08 AM
My two cents? Reproductive success is declining, success is the key word. Without the weeds beds to offer cover and protection the chance that a fingerling can grow into a fish that can protect itself, is hard to imagine. 30 years ago we would maybe catch one of two pike per year. Now they are everywhere. Guess what those pike eat fingerling muskie.
The pressure is unbelievable. And the number of dead fish in unbelievable as well.
For those that did not fish the lake prior the rusty's they have no idea the affect. The lake is becoming more in-fertile. Entire islands were surrounded by cabbage.
Like my neighbor (DJ), glad I fished the last 30 years and not the next.
I'm seeing more and more veteran muskie hunters take less and less of an interest because of how bad the fishing is these days. I always tell my wife after shes's frustrated with not catching anything that it's too bad you weren't muskie fishing with me even 10 years ago. You'd have a lot more follows and bites, with a lot less people pounding the spots. I only started fishing lake of the woods 3 years ago and I feel like I'm on vermilion some days with how much pressure I'm seeing. I thought I was going there to escape, but you can't escape the mob!
Edited by Kirby Budrow 7/23/2018 1:56 PM
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Posts: 133
| Time to start stocking it I guess!!! |
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Location: oswego, il | A buddy of mine just spent 10 days up there. He got 5, his partner 0. |
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Location: Warroad, Mn | I agree!
Look at this from an evolutionary standpoint. Muskies have been spawning in emerging weeds on the LOTWs for hundreds of years. All of a sudden there's no emerging weeds. What do you think is happening?
LOTWs is still probably still one of the best muskie fisheries in the world, but I fear!
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Posts: 1970
| There’s no emerging weeds??? I can think of about 100,000 acres of weeds? Just because the nice green cabbage beds aren’t there that hold fish during the summer doesn’t automatically mean the sky is falling... the places they did and still do spawn in are choked with weeds by July 1st? |
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Posts: 571
| Ok, so this discussion got me thinking and so I went back to my old notes. Sorry in advance for the long post.
The context is that I’ve been fishing LOTW since the late 90’s, sometimes as many as 3 trips in a year. I lay no claim to being any kind of expert but I started keeping a fishing log/journal for LOTW in 2005. In 2011, we started keeping detailed stats along with the log/journal. This is currently an 80-page document, single-spaced. (Yes, unfortunately, my wife has seen it—she thinks I’m certifiably crazy). Anyways, here’s my $0.02 based on what the stats show.
We keep track of some nuanced things, as well as basic things such as total “active fish” (follows, strikes, boated) and total hours fished. So, at least since 2011, I can see trends with hard numbers.
I don't know if the numbers are good, bad or somewhere in between, but here are the figures for hours per active fish on our trips since 2011:
Aug ‘11: 0.56
Oct ’11: 1.15
Aug ’12: 0.43
Oct ’12: 0.62
Aug ’13: 0.67
Oct ’13: 0.50
Aug ’14: 0.59
Oct ’14: 1.19
Aug ’15: 0.98
Oct ’15: 0.69
Aug ’16: 0.74
Oct ’16: 1.66
July ’17: 1.13
Oct ’17: 1.25
From the above, it is clear that my boat has contacted fish less frequently in the past few years: out of the past 14 trips to LOTW, 3 of the 5 toughest (for overall fish encounters) have occurred consecutively over the past 3 trips, each with > 1 hour per active fish, versus only 2 such trips amongst the 11 prior. (By the way, although we’ll do a bit of trolling in Oct, we go in early Oct and are mostly casting so I don’t think it skews the numbers much).
I feel like I can blame the recent tougher fishing on a few different factors, (weather, most notably), but diminished reproduction and/or reduced population density in the lake hasn’t really been something I’d considered. But I suppose it can’t be ruled out for the reason DougJ mentions.
Regardless, the trend definitely seems to be that the fish are using the traditional, shallow-structure less frequently. I also agree that having success, at times, does require paying close attention to particular, subtle patterns. I don’t think there is a single, specific explanation but it’s probably due to a combination of factors, along the lines mentioned by Brian, above.
I certainly could be wrong but I'm having a tougher time believing that the overall population has been or is declining significantly, at least for present purposes. Mainly, this is because when we’ve put things together, we’ve been able to find fish doing exactly what we think they’re doing….and they’re there…in spades. Kind of just like always.
I don’t know whether it is true or not, but I’ve been told that there has recently been, or currently is, a “perch explosion” on LOTW. Does anyone know if this is true or not? If it is, perhaps it might also explain a few things?
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Location: Warroad, Mn | Justin
Ive have to disagree, There are very little weeds left on the Ontario side of the LOTWs, maybe 5 present of what there used to be. |
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Posts: 1970
| Agreed 95% of great fishing weeds are gone compared to 20 years ago.. I’m talking about the “crap” where I’ve always seen muskies spawning... 4 years ago or 20 years ago. Miles and miles of the crap
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