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Posts: 64
| The Winnebago system is huge and my hope is that could become the next great musky fishery. I know over the last decade or so there has been some stocking, but it would take a lot of stocking to make it a great fishery. I know some guys who do catch them out there but not many. I'm hoping this system becomes the next target as I think it could become equal to Lake of the Woods. With Green Bay and then the Winnebago system, this would put 2 giant trophy waters within 50 miles of each other (also Shawano Lake is pretty darn good now too). Thoughts? |
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Location: minocqua, wi. | equal to lake of the woods?
is school out today?? |
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Posts: 880
Location: New Berlin,Wisconsin,53151 | I approached this in one of the other forums. (Biology) Lets release 5 million muskies (frey) into that system for 4 or 5 years in a row and see what the results would be? That's what WFT is doing to improve the lakes in certain areas. Then you could talk about a LOTW's in GB, Michigan or Winnebeggo.
Edited by Netman 2/18/2015 11:10 AM
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Posts: 32798
Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | Unfortunately, there isn't anywhere near that number of muskies available from the hatcheries, and I'd bet they would require Great Lakes strain. |
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Posts: 1220
| I'll be the first to admit total ignorance with this question, but....there is no question the Winnebago system, Bago, Winneconne, Butte Des Morts, Wolf, Fox etc. seems to me to be more of a shallow water fishery. I'm just wondering what that implies with respect to musky habitat? Does it make it more of a long shot to succeed? |
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Posts: 102
| Average depth of St Clair is 11 feet, so I don't think the depth of the Bago system is the issue. The system could easily handle a high population, and would most likely see growth much like the other big bodies mentioned, but the issue is getting enough fish into there. There are only so many from the DNR, and only so many that outside groups like MI could buy to put in. I don't think the current levels will get it to where it could be, but I think it's on track to eventually be a worthy fishery of venturing to. |
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Posts: 134
| i have often wondered about this topic also. I am super fortunate to live almost smack in the middle of GB and Bago. I fish both for multi species but I have never fished ol lady bago for musky. I have heard of incidental catches by fisherman but haven't heard of somebody on bago targeting musky. Not to say it doesn't happen, just that upper river may offer better opportunity for the time invested.
The system does support the fish, from the wolf river head waters all the way to GB there are fish in the system top to bottom, finding "fishable" populations is the part that may deter anglers from investing their time. I know personally I invest my available time into fishing areas that are proven because my time is limited. GB, oneida/vilas county, etc.
In terms of habitat, I would think the system has the ability to sustain a musky population, although we did suffer a decent pike die off a few years ago when water temps spiked. Would like to hear a biologists take on this as the system is very fertile and has the necessary forage. |
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Posts: 880
Location: New Berlin,Wisconsin,53151 | Steve, I was talking about releasing Frey like "Walleye For Tomorrow" wagons. They net the females, add milk to the eggs and relase millions of frey into the center of the lake. This avoids the carp eating them before they hatch and gives the little crappers a chance. Granted not much of one but when you release 4-5 million every year. Maybe we can get Mike Keopp to chime in on the survival odds, his brother Tom is doing this on Pewaukee with walleyes. Again it's a crap shoot, but is it worth the effort?
Netman |
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Posts: 1767
Location: Lake Country, Wisconsin | Lake of the woods lol
Sure....just need Governor Walker to build 14.5 thousand islands, clear any development, build thousands and thousands of rock reefs, implant some species that aren't there then yeah, should be LOTW except 12 hours closer and a lot cheaper! |
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Posts: 2691
Location: Pewaukee, Wisconsin | Walleyes For Tomorrow-WFT Pewaukee chaper was started because our walleye numbers were way down and no walleye under 18-inches were in Pewaukee Lake. We fyke netted over 200 walleye last spring just after ice out and removed, fertilized and cared for these eggs in our portable hatchery. In about 17-19 days the 4.25 million fry were released back into Pewaukee Lake.
Our success rate is still unknown. We hope to have 1 to 2 percent make it to legal size. We also had 3600 extended growth walleye (5-6") released in October. I guess time will tell how many of these fishmake it.
When I made inquiries about using this method for our muskies I had negative feedback. Hard to do both because one will eat the other.
Bago is loaded with food. Extended growth muskies would be the only option. Otherwise you are just feeding the system with your muskie fry.
We learned all we know from Mike Arrowood head man of WFT. He has helped to make the Winnebago system what it is today for walleye fishing. Feel free to check on what WFT has done in wisconsin over the years.
Now lets take this knowledge and start working on muskie wagons.
If anyone wants to see what we are doing on Pewaukee Lake stop down by Smokeys Muskie Shop on this Saturday 2-21-15 and check out out portable walleye hatchery. We are holding our 2nd annual WFT Pewaukee Chapter Fishery at Curleys Waterfront Sports Bar.
60-inch tv, propane augers, $500 gift card, ice shanty, muskie packages, etc.
See ya Saturday!!!! |
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Posts: 1937
Location: Black Creek, WI | The WI DNR had the capability to stock enough fish into Green Bay to make it a viable fishery, so the Winnebago System is very feasible. Stocking efforts were initiated in the Winnebago System, but then VHS hit and things stopped.
I know there are others more knowledgeable on the current Hatchery Limitations to stock Great Lakes Strain into Green Bay and the Winnebago System. Perhaps they will chime in. I don't believe VHS is the current show-stopper.
With the forage base in the Winnebago Chain it has huge potential.
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Posts: 397
Location: Wisconsin | I fish the tributaries of the bago system in the spring and summer and do well. The fish in there haven't been conditioned haha. I would love to fish the main lake basins more. I know a few people from the appleton area that do well fishing poygan throughout the summer. But some consistent stocking of 10 inch fingerling would be an awesome experiment... For now, I will stick with the river and creek systems
Edited by WiscoMusky 2/18/2015 1:31 PM
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Posts: 880
Location: New Berlin,Wisconsin,53151 | I think that Walker might do that after he approves the Kenosha Casino. Shouldn't be using LOTW as a marker but the GB and Michingan systems could be developed to hold more fish and not have to worry about a die-off do to a temp rise.
"Sure....just need Governor Walker to build 14.5 thousand islands, clear any development, build thousands and thousands of rock reefs, implant some species that aren't there then yeah, should be LOTW except 12 hours closer and a lot cheaper! |
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Posts: 397
Location: Wisconsin | Between bago, butte des morts, winneconne, poygan, the wolf, the upper fox, little butte des morts, and all the tributaries, the possibilities for this to be a musky Mecca are tremendous. If the same stocking efforts from GB were in place, the fishery would thrive. The forage in the bago system could truly make it a special place... And between GB and the bago system, central WI would just be an awesome fishing destination |
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Posts: 122
Location: Appleton Wi | I don't know why some of you are giving this idea so much hate unless you have never seen the system. I don't think he is saying it will be like lake of the woods for structure and islands but could make it a trophy fishery with many lakes connected. Green bay is a great musky fishery in itself but getting the other lakes around it with musky would be amazing. This system could be a great fishery and living in the area I would love to see this happen. |
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Location: MN | musky2424 - 2/18/2015 4:47 PM
I don't know why some of you are giving this idea so much hate unless you have never seen the system. I don't think he is saying it will be like lake of the woods for structure and islands but could make it a trophy fishery with many lakes connected. Green bay is a great musky fishery in itself but getting the other lakes around it with musky would be amazing. This system could be a great fishery and living in the area I would love to see this happen.
No hating going on that I can see. OP said it would be equal to Lake of the Woods. He didn't say in what respect, and a couple guys scoffed at the notion of making that comparison (and perhaps rightfully so), but did not express any ill will toward the idea of stocking the system in question. |
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Location: Lake Country, Wisconsin | musky2424 - 2/18/2015 4:47 PM
I don't know why some of you are giving this idea so much hate unless you have never seen the system. I don't think he is saying it will be like lake of the woods for structure and islands but could make it a trophy fishery with many lakes connected. Green bay is a great musky fishery in itself but getting the other lakes around it with musky would be amazing. This system could be a great fishery and living in the area I would love to see this happen.
LOTW is not strictly a trophy fishery....in fact it probably leans more towards numbers with a decent size mixed in. Suggesting you can build a system from scratch to match one of the best lakes on the planet is a bit...ridiculous?
but yeah...the idea sounds GREAT besides the over the top comparison and expectations. Any chances to get on big water with big fish potential close to home would be sweet
Edited by Musky Brian 2/18/2015 5:12 PM
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Posts: 337
Location: Watersmeet, Michigan | Remember that parts of Lake Michigan once had so many muskies that they were fished commercially, which eventually all but completely destroyed the population. Given continued stocking, catch and release, and natural reproduction, I don't think it far-fetched to hope that in time we could once more see numbers such as those presennt before commercial fishing.
Fr. K
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Location: minocqua, wi. | musky2424 - 2/18/2015 4:47 PM
I don't know why some of you are giving this idea so much hate unless you have never seen the system.
comparing the system to LOTW suggests you've never been to LOTW before ... pointing the silliness out is not hatred ...
building on the fishery is a great idea and one most of us have thought about throughout the years. hope it happens in my lifetime ... |
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Posts: 122
Location: Appleton Wi | All I am saying is that we should look at the positives or what it could be instead of what it cant be. |
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Posts: 6
| I say load up the system. Realize availability of the fish to stock is the issue. Way too much focus and resources in DNRs is on biologists, monitoring, etc. Stock baby stock! You can take any 10 ft deep lake with a decent foreage base and make it into a great fishery. All you got to do is stock it. Just look at Wingra. Biologists won't be for the shift from "monitoring" to stocking because it inherintly will make their value go down. What about ways to privatize hatcheries in a way that make sure they are compliant with the DNR (genetics, VHS, etc)? |
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Posts: 1220
| Same question, lakes like Poygan, Winneconne, Butte des Morts, have a MAXIMUM depth of 8-11 feet (not average depth) so where does the fish get a break in cooler water. Really don't claim the answer, just suspect it's a harder place to build population. I love the area, once lived there 1971-1976, actually published the Winneconne News. |
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Posts: 6
| I wouldn't be concerned about the max depth. Pike thrive on Poygan and are more sensitive to warm temps. Although lots of Pike got hit during the 90 degree water temps in 2012, this was a very rare event and I'm pretty sure the Pike fishery remains fine. |
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Posts: 300
| I think the Winnebago system has potential to be a very good musky water. There is a fishable population in certain areas of the system, but I'm not positive about Winnebago itself. Like most flowages, forage is not an issue. I think it could be done, but there would have to be a HUGE influx of resources to get the system to a point that most would consider a "fishable population". |
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Posts: 3518
Location: north central wisconsin | There really isn't an argument against the stocking of the chain from the DNR, as proven by their stocking records. However, as jlong describes, stocking in Green Bay and the chain was largely cessated nearly 10 years ago already due to VHS. The nominal stocking that occurs now in GB is not enough to sustain the fishery that is there now, so until the new brood stock is ready and the multi million dollar hatchery at Wild Rose that was built specifically to raise great lakes strain muskies, is operating at capacity, any mskies that are raised in Kewaunee and other hatcheries, will be stocked into Green Bay exclusively.
With that said, the management plan for the system calls for Green Bay to be established first, which hasn't been done. Then, stocking in other bodies of water, directly connected to Green Bay, not even limited to the Winnebego chain, will be targeted. Once this stocking program is reinstated, the numbers of fingerlings stocked in the bay and connected waters up till 2005 or so, will be matched again and likely surpassed(can't wait!).
One concern is a potential recurrance of the 2012 extreme summer fish kill in the upriver lakes. I'm not sure what the severity was to esocids, but knowing folks that were fishing out there that aren't having the success they were just before it occurred, it may or may not be something to look more closely at when determining where $$ is best spent.
Anyone with further specifics on the program, feel free to add and or correct what I may have missed. If anyone from the clubs that re-established the green bay fishery 25 years ago(Winnebegoland club or Dave's Musky club) is here, please chime in.
Edited by Reef Hawg 2/18/2015 8:50 PM
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Location: Wisconsin | Great points Reed Hawg |
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Posts: 36
| Reef Hawg, Spot on |
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Posts: 5874
| Good topic, and one close to my roots.
Biggest difference in the Bago Chain, and GB is there is some natural recruitment in the Bago Chain, from the remnant population that was all but wiped out in the 60's. Not a lot, but some. There's also some fish that were stocked several years ago that are getting up to decent size. I'm not exactly sure of the years they were stocked. I'd have to go back an look through some records.
My dad lived on Butte, and my uncle still does. They caught lots of muskies back in the day, and unfortunately, they killed them back then. I have pictures of them with some really nice fish. I took my uncle out for a nastalgia trip when I had my old Tuffy tiller, so that was in the mid to late 90's, and we raised one fish, probably high 20's, and this was not a stocked fish. I was prefishing for a walleye tourney on a Winneconne cane bed about 5 years ago, saw a fish swirl, and casted a jig and plastic to it. It ate, and a few minutes later, I had a beautiful 42 in the net. I don't believe this was a stocked fish, either. WHile the green Bay stocked fish go through the motions, there isn't much evidence that there is much natural recruitment there. I think the Bago chain could be restored to a great fishery again, but it is going to take stocking to get the numbers up. Will it ever get to the point of self-sustaining? Not sure. I don't know the success rates of stocked fish spawning.
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Location: Contrarian Island | great post Reef.. I'd agree it could be an awesome fishery..hope we see it someday... tons of forage, fertile, grows big muskies...  |
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Posts: 9
| Any update on this? I haven't done any research yet into the stocking efforts or population monitoring. |
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