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Posts: 7038
Location: Northwest Chicago Burbs | Or is the idea of stocking (from whence there were no muskies) a new muskie population into a lake with a strong big pike and bass (small and large) population is basically an effort that results in feeding the existing predators in hopes that a few muskies will make it?
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Posts: 1283
| Busse Woods seems to have taken off really good, and everyone thought it was a waste of money and resources. It will never be a trophy lake but there are some 40"plus already. Only problem Busse has is bucketheads keeping undersized fish. |
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Posts: 143
| At least on an area lake around me, they started the stocking with a decent amount of adults, following year they started yearlings, then introduced the fingerlings. you catch a fair amount of 30"-40" fish and if you're lucky can catch one of the initial adults in the 45"-50" range. seems to have worked well for this particular lake.
Edited by burningdubs 12/30/2014 12:12 PM
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Posts: 8780
| Slamr - 12/30/2014 11:47 AM
Or is the idea of stocking (from whence there were no muskies) a new muskie population into a lake with a strong big pike and bass (small and large) population is basically an effort that results in feeding the existing predators in hopes that a few muskies will make it?
With a few rare exceptions, that seems to be the likely outcome. But then what other choice is there? Stock what you can where you can and hope for the best, or have more and more musky anglers fishing for fewer and fewer fish in places that are more and more crowded every year...
Maybe that's just the cynic in me talking.
Edited by esoxaddict 12/30/2014 12:35 PM
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Posts: 20218
Location: oswego, il | Depends on the lake and the size structure of the pike and bass. On delevan the pike and bass are numerous and of trophy size, the stocking efforts produce very few fish. Lakes lime Pewaukee and silver boast good populations. |
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Posts: 4343
Location: Smith Creek | Lots of lakes that muskies are introduced to have good populations of bass and pike. Seems that the hatchery has more to do with fingerling survival rates than the lakes they're being introduced to. |
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Posts: 455
| Lets see if that was the case Ill KY OH NJ MO VA PA and many great waters in NY MN and Ont would not exist. |
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Posts: 305
Location: Illinois | You are not crazy. Todd M talked about Delevan, a perfect example of musky feeding other predators. I would have expected some of the same from Geneva, but maybe differences in depth and forage account for the difference in success rates.
Busse and Pewaukee both lack the pike density of Delevan. Stocking Delevan with muskies appears to be a poor investment.
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Posts: 455
| Ok so Stocking didn`t work on Mill Lacs or Vermillion? The Montreal area does not have word class Muskie fishing? Stocking Muskie in Pike infested bays in lakes on the very fringe of thier range may not be as successful but who cares? |
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Posts: 1529
| seems the first hurdle is,getting past the musky haters. after that would it not be habitat,forage base to sustain. could one not plant larger fingerlings to give them a better chance in hostile enviroments. |
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Posts: 16632
Location: The desert | What other methods would you like to employ to start a population from scratch? They don't just magically appear..... |
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Posts: 216
| Yup, that's the idea. Hope, that some of them survive to be big enough to start breeding and returning to the top of the food chain. Eat some guys trophy bass for lunch.A lake or river with hopes and evidence of muskies in it will get me more interested in fishing it rather than one that doesn't. I wish they'd stock em in every mud hole around me.If one slob survives in these less than par,new Muskie waters to be a monster and you catch it someday while bass,pike or walleye fishing, you'll be thankful that they stocked it. |
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Posts: 455
| Well many smaller waters have to be maintained due to lack of spawning habitat. That's fine though. Lots of fisheries are maintained that way. In other areas where you are introducing fish to former whipped out Muskie waters they can recover. Montreal and the Ottawa river would be a great example. Hopefully lake Champlain will come back and have a breading population. |
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Posts: 32886
Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | Extended growthers help allot. Expensive critters, though. |
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Posts: 102
| Pewaukee has a similar bass population as Delaven, both size and numbers. There are probably more 35+" muskies in Pewaukee than there are 30+" northerns in Delaven. Muskies will eat their own kind. So, how come the stockers are able to grow in Pewaukee but not Delaven? Always wondered that one. |
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Posts: 580
| Just spit-balling here, but I'd venture a guess that Delavan's has a unique biomass in its proportion of larger LM and mid-size and larger pike. We might think its similar to Pewaukee/Okaukee/Geneva/etc., but I think there are complexities (habitat, forage-predator relationships, etc.) that we aren't appreciating. Medium-size pike are prolific feeders and are often present in huge numbers. I don't know Delavan like some of you guys, but from what I can tell, it might fit that description.
Reminds me of an exchange that I had with a WDNR biologist a few years ago about Big McKensie Lake in NW WI. Muskie numbers were way down despite ongoing stocking efforts that had pretty much remained unchanged. He attributed the decline to an exploding population of LM Bass which were foraging on the stocked muskie fingerlings. Here is what his email said:
"The muskie population on Big McKenzie is very low and probably will remain so for some time. We have maintained a regular stocking program but survival of stocked fish has been very low for a long time.
I believe the problem has been a huge increase in the bass population since size limits were imposed in 1989. Walleye and northern populations also declined. The bass essentially over exploited the forage base, including stocked muskie fingerlings. Growth rates of bass, walleye and northern have all declined.
As of May 16th the bass size limit was taken off Big and Middle McKenzie. The change is posted at boat landings but won't appear in the regulation book until next year. I hope reducing the bass population will benefit walleye and muskie fishery but its going to take a number of years." |
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Location: oswego, il | I would question the number relationship of musky and pike between Pewaukee and delevan. That being said I think the oike eat them on delevan there is an abundance of pike big enough to do it.
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Posts: 20218
Location: oswego, il | I have brought this up before to the Minnesota guys but here is some.food for thought. What about those big shallow lakes in the southern part of the state? Many are oxygenated, full of bulkheads. Stock some of these lakes. They won't reproduce, you have good forage and now you have some lakes that can stay open for musky fishing during all of open water. Sure they won't reach 55+ but they will get big and this is a good thing for those economies. I believe it could work. |
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Posts: 102
| I agree with the shallow lake idea ToddM. Been hoping for that for YEARS!!!
Edited by Lumpy 12/31/2014 1:45 PM
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Posts: 3147
| The minneapolis st Paul metro muske lakes were all jam packed with 2-4 lb pike and bass,,,and I mean packed!!!! In Minnesota pike are EVERYWHERE If you turned on your kitchen sink faucet and a pike came out you wouldn't be that stunned it worked here. |
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Posts: 3147
| Todd. It would work in Southern Minnesota,, fantastically BUT southern Minnesota actually LOVES its bullhead population and draws Iowa tourist money because Iowans love bullhead even more,,also that is a very active spearing group in that area. SOuthern crossroads chapter of MI has tried and tried.
Edited by happy hooker 1/1/2015 8:09 AM
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| I would be worried about winterkill in those shallow sloughs. |
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Location: MN | jaultman - 1/2/2015 7:23 AM
I would be worried about winterkill in those shallow sloughs.
Exactly what I was thinking. From my understanding, lakes that are loaded with bullheads are usually those that freeze out often and the bullheads are the only ones that survive and then explode due to no competition/predation. |
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Posts: 455
| Funny I went to a Lake Howard Wagner told me was awesome. When I got there a kid told me the dam broke, water dropped and the lake froze. No muskies left. Should have been here last year we were getting seven a day average. Just the kind of thing that happens to me often. |
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Posts: 20218
Location: oswego, il | From what I have read about those lakes that is why they have the bullhead populations in there. Hearty critters they would survive a 2.5 hour trip home in ice from the mad chain to swim in the sink. My thought was because now some have aerators they no longer freeze out.
Edited by ToddM 1/3/2015 8:05 AM
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| the one and only time I have ever seen "schools" (50+) of bullheads was in a 5k acre lake near my home. this lake bottomed out at 12 feet and last year the DNR set a no limit on fish as it was a winterkill year. people were getting big crappies and pike by the sled full. I've heard stories of a 50" gators being caught there as well. a string of mild winters greatly bumps the size and quantity of pan/game fish and only takes one brutal winter to significantly reduce them. but Todd is right. Those bullheads are hearty as they get and im sure they are thriving better than ever in this lake with fewer predators. and the few surviving gators are feeding and growing faster too I would guess until the next kill. |
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Posts: 1202
Location: Money, PA | It depends on what is being stocked...a. fry b. fingerlings or c. 8", d. 10" or e. 12" babies. a. and b. will almost always be fish bait IMO. c. d. and e. seem to be the more sensible and recent trend of muskie management stocking programs which yield far better returns/survival rates. At one time PA used to stock millions of fry into a lake with expectations or a 1%-2% return if lucky....The "Poke & Hope" method. Today's management is certainly more sensible in regards to return, however is claimed to be more costly....that is why it is essential to have fund raisers and moneys collected to push our fishery management programs to hold on to those fish longer in the hatcheries and your donated funds go to minnows to feed them....NOT pellets. |
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Posts: 994
Location: Minnesota: where it's tough to be a sportsfan! | This is a topic that has many beer spilled over. There is never a 100% answer. The best I have seen is stock them and find out the result. One year is not stocking Muskie though. As the MN DNR seems to have problems understanding. Stock once or twice per year for three years. The success rate is low enough that it takes the extra efforts to get a fishery worth visiting. The worst part is the fish we stock today will not be impressive sized for guys of my age to even fish for. The best I can hope for is one of my grand kids can catch them. If the lake has a basin, if it's a river, if it's an oxbow lake of decent size. |
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Posts: 455
| Well Jake I think you would be surprised how fast they get big. 50" in ten years on the St. Lawrence. I have got 44" fish only five years after stocking in N.J. You are rite though. There are so many factors as far as water quality, habitat, PH and other conditions. Hard to just look at the amount of Pike and draw a strait line to the Muskie stocking not doing well. |
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