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Posts: 15
| ColoAndy, yours is a statement to be commended in a world of chest pounders. Every one wants to hire the guy on TV. Because he's "The Best" since he's on TV. What about the local guide who is probably better? What about the guy who lives in the area and feeds his wife and children from the money he makes guiding in his home range? Or the guide who has a non fishing job in the community and takes people out when he's done with work. Aren't those the guys that need protection from the "Gypsy" (I like that) guides who have no ties to the area?
I for one have fished with both of these kind of guides. And after this you can bet I'll go with the local.
Joe |
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Posts: 2384
Location: On the X that marks the mucky spot | Good post Mike!
Although I don't think that MN can sustain it's current quality of fishing that we're enjoying right now (much less 5-10 years ago). There's just too much pressure and too many outlets for information out there. Even if we added 20 new lakes this fall it'd be 10+ years before it was a decent fishery. Not that the DNR has the political will or dollars to actually start another 20 lakes. Shoot, it's going to be a battle to get 8 in the next 10 years!
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Posts: 32955
Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | I have seen this in Wisconsin even when residency was required. Guides staked out 'territory', and expected no other guides would infringe- which was unrealistic. I see quite a few top name MN based Guides moving around from hot bite to hot bite too, so what are we talking about with 'protection' for the local guide? Some of the guides moving about have WAY more to offer in education and knowledge than some of the local folks, and that's a fact...so it becomes a question of how micro we get with this discussion. I'd hire the most qualified based on customer ratings and success ratio, myself. I would also be more comfortable knowing the Guide's rig has passed a State inspection, he/she is required to have sufficient insurance, and all required stuff is onboard by regulation. That's just a small segment of the requirement on fed waters for captains, which I find to be a great idea. Mike's idea of a 'very large' license fee is laudable, but realistically, the administrative amounts needed to put that into effect would require the fee be QUITE large before any money ended up in the hands of the DNR for muskie habitat or stocking. The $40 in Wisconsin doesn't do much. What is the suggested amount,$200. $500 $1000.00? Less, more? And what would be left for the DNR? Law would need be written to allocate those fees to the desired habitat and stocking programs. Would there be 'divisions' for Walleye, Bass, Pike, and Panfish Guides so those fees are allocated to those species?
Promoting one's business by appearing in magazines and on TV isn't 'chest pounding', IMHO, it's promoting; if a Muskie Guide intends to make a living JUST guiding, it pretty important to do.
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Posts: 244
Location: Mallard Island Lake Vermilion MN | Guide some time now.
Enjoy it all....
Less now as slowed down a bunch an trying o enjoy it all still.
CANCER blows...but 9 months free so eat that.
Why argu on this stuff...dose it really matter?
Will this stuff online do anyone any good / bad.
Most guides I ever met are good people.
Period.
Running around different lake when young is about as cool as it could get.
I would be one of them for sure had muskie fishen been this good 30 yers ago..no doubt.
on thing is never mentioned is in long run this running around will do harm to them in long run as far as if not saving for future.
Cause no paying into SS or that type stuff or being emplayed for a pension or having dental or health stuff like that.
Otheer wize....I say just go guide, have fun.live life.
Never really cared who fished where.....
Never thought about really...did ask couple guides I knew fished lake in 1998 if they figured I could fish muskies an make any money an if they gived a hoot?
Both told me go for it an actually helped me with some odd questions I had about peope stuff an money an setting up whole guide deal....was fun...plus we watche fish grow to what it has bcome now...
No way did I ever figure on what is going down now with fish or numbers of people...not in my life time..no way.
We are...still friends....don't see each other much as they work when I play an I play when they work or I play to much or am to handsome an on an on.
Aaron Zorn...a guy I knew a long time ago....asked me once what I thought of Chadly Cainer fishen Vermilion...I honestly said Chad who.
DA!
I guess that shows you how much I knew about other guides and out state guides.
Then one time I seen Chads truck at a landing I had land by.......left him a note that it would maybe be cool to meeet him an have something grilled n killed.
Been sort a friends with him since.....think he knows my Mom better than me, met my sisters an is a good dude.
Kinda reminds me of Gomer Pyle when he was younger.
LOL
But he can fish...no doubt...no doubt.
This year out of blue I got to meet Lee T. of Lees lures.
Nice guy....he was on lake with friends I think....then got a call or something to guide...met them here...something like that...so who cares?
Fishen is fishen...sposed to be fun....
Heck I was bizzy when he called....even invited him out to my docks to meet me boyz and up onto my island digs for a bit while I was redoing my deck boards.
Hell he even guided someone I had guided before....plus got the guy on a 52" inch or so.
Sweet. How could that be bad?
Makes some nice lures also...good fisher, very friendly nice person.....how could I not welcome him to the area, lake or my digs.
Known Luke R. a long time but not like buddies.
He makes good lures an runs all oveer.
How can that be bad to enjoy life an do it doing somwting your good at a enjoy...plus make a few bucks an have fu.
He can fish too...dam tooten.
One night I took a guy into Greenwood to show hm how to run it....was amazed as in 15 minutes there were four other guides in there I know don't live on lake or near lake....couple new guys also how do...BIG PARTY I guess....funny.
Some or all way deep in the STUFF an me way out in my holding areas lookin in.
All said hi I think....but after showen the guy I was with how I would work it I did leave scrathen me lil brain.
LOL
Guess I just like to get along with everyone.
No idea why someone would care where someone else lives to guide or keep them away to guide.
Make no sense to me.
But I did do a lot of things to fog me brains when I was a kid.
Travled the world doing it...no one stopped me.
LOL
Everything was free...so why not.
but I drift.
Sorry.
Keep on rocken!
Got into guiding to help others learn lake while on vacation.
I did it a bunch, learned some junk...figure I could help others....nothing better than meeting some other fun people like simular stuff, spend day on water fshen an make a few bucks.
Use coin earned to keep doing it....hell yeah!
Just figured I could help...never claimed to know more than anyone or be best at anything.
Before I owned island 13 yuear ago I was a no local also...still only live there in open water.
Cabin is 79 year old...would turn into a humansicle if i stayed to long.
I know Bob Benson is same way...an he is a heck of a fisher.
Dustin Carelson is also a great fisher guy an don't live on alke.
I don't feel they would mind or care if someone from where ever guided ...maybe but I doubt it.
Josh B. can fish ...dam good fisher..he is a minnesota kid...fishes all over...should he not be on V....heck of a shame if he could not show his clients a good time.
Some new guides on lake very year....it is not same place it was even 5 year ago but still fun place to hide.
Wish them all a safe sucsseful season.
Lots of guides only really mean fish see more lures....more often.
Funny thing is I must fish in wrong places as I rarly see these guys.
Freaky.
Maybe they wear Camo?
Taxes...hell with that...come on...we all would not pay if yer honset an did not have to pay.
DNR would find a way to work it out.
Like My idea to Shawn "Treats" Kellet....lets have a dunk tank at state fair.
Fill it ith water...also have one for $10 full of chezzzzzzz Whizzzzzzz.
$5 to dunk dinks of muskie world.
Make 100's of K and bling...to fund mukie junk or help kids or something fun...needed....having fun doing fun junk...like uskie fishen is sposed to be.
I play...we pay..wife Bean is accounttant so by the book...but would not if did not have to.
FOR SURE!
Or have a casino for just DNR...don't like it...don't go.
Simple.
Go to the one for something else.......like yer choice of nasty fast food, Rotten Ronnies or Wasted Wendys or Slury of Arbys....wow....how can one eat that.
Kill it then grill it.
Even Areosmith are hippodinks...rememeber eat the rich....now they get $400 a seat...sumthin stinks.
B.C. idea or Hookers idea could be cool...everyone on same field...make everyone happy...no need to argu or bicker with fingers.
Guide pays a bit, money goes to something good.
Works for me.
Dose anyone ever get in a good ol fist fight any more with out a lawyer being called...I used to love to...for sure.
POW...we got it on an now best buds or not...resecpt each other for sure.
OH YEAH!
I guess one should not coment unless a guide or a relation or a tax man.
But I do know like me cops love donuts.
Has nothing to do with fishen or dose it?
Maybe someday I will even be on THE NEXT BITE!
How cool would that be for everyone!
Me an Pistol Pete in same boat........wow!
LOL x 1000000000000000000
I ramble as nothing to do until Thursday when I go back to lake.
My son is 32...getting married Sept 19th....sweet eh.
I waited until I was 48...so he has found his MRS. RIGHT early....how cool is that....guess I be Granpa Musky T. next year?
Well...hope ya not mad at me for wasting yer time...none of this means anything but you read it.
Now go fishen, help a poor guy out, take him or her with, think of good not bad, smile they are free..
Watch yer PSA an LIVE!
Keep on rocken.
Tommy |
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Posts: 8863
| So the real issue isn't the guides themselves, is it? It's the number of anglers that now fish these lakes that never saw much pressure. I suppose its more convenient to blame the out of state guides, but it's probably a combination of out of state guides, resident guides, magazines, TV shows, websites, muskie videos, and even Muskies Inc. that is causing this. Every time angler X catches a 50"+ musky in MN, and the pictures of that fish find their way to all the Muskie related media out there, it is going to bring more people to the area, in search of that big fish.
If you build it, they will come. If you build it, and promote the heck out of it, they will come by the thousands. Blame whomever you need to blame if it helps you sleep at night, but the truth is that muskie anglers will find good muskie fishing wherever it occurs no matter what you do. |
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Posts: 639
Location: Hudson, WI | I hope no one complaining about the amount of pressure in MN was once a Twin Cities guy fishing Bone and Deer every weekend back in the 80's and early 90's before the metro area had a quality muskie fishery. That would be the epitome of heresy. Well, other than the signing of a certain quarterback...;) |
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Location: Oswego, IL | The wierd thing to me is as BIG as most people are trying to make Muskie fishing, it seems there isnt the resources for it. Does the stocking even keep up?
By the way Tommy, got a kick out of your post. Live on brother!
Edited by muskiewhored 9/8/2009 4:35 PM
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Posts: 639
Location: Hudson, WI | Slim, who else is guiding up there these days? |
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Posts: 2361
| lambeau - 9/8/2009 2:49 PM
one thing that we can all do is to support local fishery efforts: there's waaaaay more out-of-state fishermen who aren't supporting them than guides - and that means you and you and you who have gone to MN in search of a trophy fish. send a donation to an MI club, write a letter to a legislator when asked to do so, or just choose to hire a local guide who's a member of the local club in that area.
The guide thing to me is kind of a moot deal. Get rid of 10 guides and 10 more sprout to take their place, and eventually the clods and dorks and selfish end up getting shook out and you are left with the guides that provide service, personality and teaching ability.
However as for out of state fisherman supporting a fishery? I think that an 18 hour drive, accomadations, license, docking fee, food, fuel, and a couple baits and a few meals out, does a lot to support the fishery, particularly when I would never be in that area, the resort most likely not be full, and the bar down the road slow due to the season. All those things support the fishery. particularly when you don't even keep a fish, or in the case of many anglers don't even catch their target specie. Think of all the guys that went on the musky first trip and their expenses. They ALL both bought and supported the musky resource MN provided. I doubt ANY of us would have gone for Walleyes, though I hear the blue gill experience is phenomenol. I think there are other ways to support outside fisheries, but you and I and all the muskiefirst bunch have supported and given MN a good return on their musky stocking ventures.
The MN guys and the crabby KY guys like me, need to remember that the stream of visitors that pressures the resource also gives the DNR a good reason to continue providing it. Talk to the Ohio guys. They could tell you some stuff. |
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Posts: 2515
Location: Waukesha & Land O Lakes, WI | Actually, its the internet's fault. Word of mouth is now word of fingers. |
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| I think everyone who fishes muskie realize, "new" lakes typically have an amazing run in the early stages and then things settle down to normal fishing...this happens all across the muskie range...It was mentioned that no guides either in state or out of state showed up at the Gull Lake meeting...the way folks speak about guides, especially the out of state ones, why would they? Read your own posts, sounds like Rush Limbo inviting Nancy Pelosi to help him out....the drama is entertaining though....only in MN.....Ben |
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| AWH - 9/8/2009 3:29 PM
Muskie Treats - 9/8/2009 2:36 PM
MN just had their first voluntary walleye stamp and it only netted about 10% of the total take. That's not a great investment of our $$$.
If the numbers I read in the paper recently were correct, anglers were surveyed before this voluntary walleye stamp became a reality and just over 50% said that they would buy it. Fast forward to today and only 1% of anglers buying a license also purchased the walleye stamp.
Aaron
Unfortunately this is exactly why the stamp should NOT BE voluntary... Just like a fishing license is NOT an option. Is a salmon/trout stamp voluntary? Maybe only non-resident muskie fisherman should be required to buy this stamp??? Just an idea. Or maybe a non-resident stamp should cost substantially more than a resident stamp? Either way. As an out of state fisherman who fishes MN for muskies, I would be more than willing to pay $50, $100, or $200 for a MN muskie stamp. I think alot of the people who are currently upset about out of state guides, and the added pressure they bring, along with their past clients returning to MN would be all for this idea? More guys muskie fishing MN would equal more $$$ towards MUSKIE stocking.
Personally I am blaming Al Gore, not out-of state guides. If he hadn't put an end to Global Warming, maybe every summer would offer incredible muskie fishing like in the hot summers preceding 2008. Record setting cold the last two summers has not done any muskie fisherman any favors in MN.
Another out-of-stater who appreciates MN...their muskies anyways.
Another U.S. citizen who appreciates the freedoms America offers. (like fishing in whichever state I choose whenever I choose to.)
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Posts: 20278
Location: oswego, il | I would like to see all guides, clubs and organazations be at the forefront of musky fishing and it's causes, period.
Not sure why a guide would turn down a client because the hot bite is not close by? That arguement escapes me completely, why turn down business.
Not once has anyone mentioned the guides who go north who help the north guides come south when their season is closed. |
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Location: Carver | Tom - Nicely said.
As i see it more exposure due to guides in state or out can be a good thing for musky fishing in Minnesota as long as the new people that are drawn into the game become inolved in organizations that support the resource. Our DNR/MI has done ubelievable work creating great musky fishing opportunities in MN. The negative side of that is what is being focused on here, ie out of state or for that matter heavy in state guiding pressure. On the flip side - is it possible that this exposure could help create more research/funding/additional water in the long term? I guess the answer to that is up to.....pretty much everyone on this site.
So, instead of saying we dont want a bunch of out out of state guides on our waters, maybe we ask that they promote minnesota chapters of MI and such? Get those clients donating some $$$ and sooner or later we have more waters...
wrong? |
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| In my opinion people have a right to fish anywhere they want if it is a lake open to the public. Sure fishing pressure on a lake can get frustrating .
But that does not mean we should start making up petty rules about who is allowed to fish a certain lake.
You just have to learn to adapt to the pressure. It is part of the fun of fishing. The challenge & some times the FRIENDLY competition. |
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| Many suggested money will fix the problem by increasing stocking. The MN DNR will not increase the number of fish that can be stocked in these lakes. They have a formula and they are not going to change it. And some of the lakes that are getting pounded by these guys don't get stocked. This is why so many people are concerned about the long term effect of a flock of guides decending on a small lake. If they increase catch mortality during a peak bite and the lake cannot get a shot in the arm with supplemental stocking you know what will happen. Also consider if they are such great guides then they are catching some of the biggest fish in the lake, the ones with the big fish genes that produce the next super tanker offspring. A sudden increase in delayed mortality on these fish could have devastating effects on a small lake. Heck Mille Lacs may be proving to us that it can have devastating effect on a big lake. |
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Posts: 32955
Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | Someone asked a few times how many guides we are talking about, could we get a close estimate, both MN and out of staters for the traveling guides? |
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Posts: 379
Location: Thief River Falls MN | millesie,
Out of the 1000 you spend, I doubt if much more than a small part of the license will get back into the fishery. The first 400 or so for the guide is probably leaving town untaxed..... |
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Posts: 229
| I agree with Steve it really is Al Gore's fault. Yes Al Gore ended global warming as we all know... But Steve failed to mention he too invented the internet- where people have let the word out on how big and plentiful Minnesota muskies are. So it is ALL Al Gore's fault. Without Al Gore we'd have none of these problems 
John |
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Posts: 3165
| finally can we put an end to something!!!
were getting 8 new muskie waters in Minn over the long range plan
8 -period !
8 -done deal !
8 -were through talking !
8 accept it and get on with it !
all this talk about exposure getting new waters is a waste-were getting 8!!!
actually make that 7 because POK got stocked last year.
we cant even get a timetable from the dnr for the rest of the 7 they have owed to us. |
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Posts: 15
| I was trying to think in my head of the number of guides
Visiting: I came up with about 20 that I have personally met. In the last few seasons. I think a couple have switched residency to MN the last year or two.
Resident: Who knows... I figure without resort guides maybe somewhere around 100? |
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| I would like to see a list of 20 of the out of state guides, that actually are guides...not just there fishing with friends and what not. I think 20 is about 15 to high....
List them please. |
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Posts: 189
Location: Barrington, Il | toddb,
People keep talking about state taxes are what drives the fishery. So the money I spend on lodging, gas, food is not income for someone? Which is taxed and some goes to the fishery. Multiply me by a few hundred and the money adds up. Maybe you should ask the chambers of commerce if they want our money. |
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Posts: 4342
Location: Smith Creek | For muskies alone 20 is low. Look on some websites and see how many guys do special multi day guided trips on V. I don't think any names will be listed on this forum.
Millsie, the local guide spends that same $ you just paid him on the community
Edited by Flambeauski 9/9/2009 10:40 AM
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| 20 is low for out of state guides??? NO way. There are just a very few. |
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Posts: 15
| I have been advised not to list any names since this is such a touchy subject. I will not list them in a private email either. |
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Posts: 1237
Location: South Portsmouth, KY | ok. out of state guides gotta make a living too you know. for some like our guides down here in the south must go up north in the summer cause thats the only job that they got. They cant fish down here cause the water temps are to harmful to the fish. They still gotta bring in a source of income. |
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Posts: 32955
Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | I see no harm in posting the known in and out of state guides and the waters they fish, the listing may get them a booking or two. Look at the views on this thread in a day and a half, over 3300, on the way to 4000 this afternoon. |
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| so is it wrong that I choose to do business with an out of state business when I get replica's done??? Should I stay within my own state and get my mounts? Is it wrong that I drive to the next state to buy a truck every two years? Out of state business is part of life, it happens in every aspect of business...fishing is a business for some. For the others, the get mad, cry, pout, throw a fit when people are catching fish while they are at work. Then they use every excuse they can come up with as to why they don't like them and they will never speak the real truth.
Should I stop buying lures from guys in WI because I don't live there?
It's call SIMPLE BUSINESS. I know it's hard to understand. |
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| So i have a business in Illinois. I get called to do work in Indiana for Indiana businesses. or even Wisconsin and Michigan. at the end of the year i do my taxes and pay my federal and state just like i am supposed to. should i tell my Indiana, Wisconsin, and Michigan dealers it is wrong for me to come there, please stop calling me????
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