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| Let me rephrase -
In what way would the Corvette fail? What would be the evidence? |
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Posts: 531
| Sidejack, read the part you quoted of mine. More specifally this part
"The HG is partly spooled to bring in 30 IPT
The PG is fully spooled bringing in 30 IPT."
It move the weight the same distance for either reel, with one revolution.
So same force required to raise the weight the same distance |
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Posts: 1828
| rodbender - 3/13/2015 10:38 AM
Look at a 500hp semi and a 500hp corvette. Both have the same power (angler) but the transmission (gearing) is vastly different. A semi can pull 40 tons (bait) with 500 hp and lower gearing with less stress on the motor (angler), while a corvette has no chance of moving 40 tons because the (gearing is different or higher). Would that motion not apply to a reels gearing ?
Better yet:
Take your 500HP tractor/trailer, and pull that 40 ton load a quarter mile at 10 mph in first gear.
Now pull it a quarter mile at 10 mph in second gear.
Now you have two different transmissions (reel gear sets) driven by the same engine (person). No need to convolute it further comparing a Corvette with a Peterbilt.
In which case did the engine do more work?
NEITHER. In first gear the crankshaft spun at a higher RPM but output less torque. In second gear it spun at lower RPM but applied higher torque. The power was the same. The work applied was the same. Maybe it consumed more gas in one gear or the other because of efficiency losses. |
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Location: varies | Motor rpm's would get too high due to the transmission gearing. More effort to the motor (angler)... |
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| rodbender - 3/13/2015 11:32 AM
Motor rpm's would get too high due to the transmission gearing. More effort to the motor (angler)...
If all that "effort" means to you is rotational speed, then sure.
If you think that lowest RPM means lowest effort, then get the highest gear ratio with the biggest spool you can find. |
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Location: varies | I see. Thanks. Now...why would anyone buy a pg over an hg? Is it ignorance ( as in my case), marketing bs? I see no benefit to a pg if the same work is required. It's easy to slow a reel vs. speeding itup. |
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Posts: 1828
| rodbender - 3/13/2015 12:08 PM
I see. Thanks. Now...why would anyone buy a pg over an hg? Is it ignorance ( as in my case), marketing bs? I see no benefit to a pg if the same work is required. It's easy to slow a reel vs. speeding itup.
For different scenarios. The HG is so freakin fast that you feel like you're not even moving the handle when you're trying to slow retrieve a hawg wobbler (for example).
Also, if you plan to throw really hard pulling baits, like #13 blades, at a good pace, then you might prefer the feel of faster cranking, less force (the PG). Whereas with the HG, sure, you won't be cranking as fast (to get the same bucktail speed), but the force you apply is higher than with the PG. |
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Location: varies | I'm just gonna have to get em both Then dang it!
I applaud the company that comes up with a "quick change" gear set one could just pop in like a cartridge |
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Location: Hayward, WI | jaultman - 3/13/2015 12:16 PM
rodbender - 3/13/2015 12:08 PM
I see. Thanks. Now...why would anyone buy a pg over an hg? Is it ignorance ( as in my case), marketing bs? I see no benefit to a pg if the same work is required. It's easy to slow a reel vs. speeding itup.
For different scenarios. The HG is so freakin fast that you feel like you're not even moving the handle when you're trying to slow retrieve a hawg wobbler (for example ).
Also, if you plan to throw really hard pulling baits, like #13 blades, at a good pace, then you might prefer the feel of faster cranking, less force (the PG ). Whereas with the HG, sure, you won't be cranking as fast (to get the same bucktail speed ), but the force you apply is higher than with the PG.
I agree, it's kind of like riding a 10 speed bike. A good rider selects a gear that lets them pedal around 90 cycles per minute. A much slower cadence in a high gear might move them at the same speed, but is harder to do for long periods of time due to the force on their legs. Dropping into a low gear and peddling at 170 cycles per minute to keep the same speed is probably not even possible, but is certainly not efficient physically.
Or, trying to reel a super fast reel slowly just feels painfully slow to me. On the other hand, taking something like a Winch and trying to burn bucktails with it will really wear your arm out because we're not operating efficiently as an angler.
I prefer to reel at roughly the same pace, within a range, and would rather use a fast reel to go really fast, and a slower reel to do the slow to moderate pace stuff. Kind of like golfers have the same swing but choose different clubs based on the application (or so I'm told, I am NOT a golfer).
Tucker |
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Posts: 531
| Or just don't fill the spool completely of a HG. Find your own sweet spot |
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Posts: 1901
Location: MN | rodbender - 3/13/2015 12:24 PM
I'm just gonna have to get em both Then dang it!
I applaud the company that comes up with a "quick change" gear set one could just pop in like a cartridge
Avet? |
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Posts: 1084
Location: Aurora | anzomcik - 3/13/2015 11:08 AM
Sidejack, read the part you quoted of mine. More specifally this part
"The HG is partly spooled to bring in 30 IPT
The PG is fully spooled bringing in 30 IPT."
It move the weight the same distance for either reel, with one revolution.
So same force required to raise the weight the same distance
Wait, so are you including your original statement of "which reel is harder to crank the handle 1 revolution" this time? If so, I'm still saying the HG would be harder to crank and would lift the weight higher from the ground because of the higher gear ratio.
Are you talking about revolutions of the spools now?
Man.. I think this is why supervisors often joke about having to shoot the engineers and get on with production. |
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Location: Waukee, IA | How is this so difficult to understand. There are literally only 2 factors that affect line retrieve speed (spool radius and gear ratio) and two that affect perceived resistance (handle length and line retrieve speed). Gear size really only makes a difference in how long it will last under different load. |
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Location: Hayward, WI | Sidejack - 3/13/2015 2:04 PM
anzomcik - 3/13/2015 11:08 AM
Sidejack, read the part you quoted of mine. More specifally this part
"The HG is partly spooled to bring in 30 IPT
The PG is fully spooled bringing in 30 IPT."
It move the weight the same distance for either reel, with one revolution.
So same force required to raise the weight the same distance
Wait, so are you including your original statement of "which reel is harder to crank the handle 1 revolution" this time? If so, I'm still saying the HG would be harder to crank and would lift the weight higher from the ground because of the higher gear ratio.
Are you talking about revolutions of the spools now?
Man.. I think this is why supervisors often joke about having to shoot the engineers and get on with production.
You would be correct if the two reels are fully spooled. Re-read the part about having them spooled so each brings in 30 inches per crank and see what you think.
Sometimes the engineers probably wish the supervisors would actually read the directions.  |
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Posts: 531
| Side jack Holy crap man go back to page 3 and read my question again. In fact read it three time. I do not understand how you are missing the mark so badly. Only explanation is like curly tail said you must not be reading what is wrote. So please for the sake of my sanity read that post again and think about it then respond to what was written. Don't add stuff that was not written don't ingore a part to make it be incorrect because what was written is correct.
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Posts: 531
| Never mind on going to page three. I copied and will paste it below.
Here is the corrected example Side Jack please tell the world how this example is not correct.
Ok everyone think of this and answer this question.
Two reels tranx HG and tranx pg.
The HG is partly spooled to bring in 30 IPT
The PG is fully spooled bringing in 30 IPT.
Holding the rod (same rod for both reels) in a vise perfectly level 60" off the ground with a 5# weight off the end of the line. Weight sitting on the floor, which reel is harder to crank the handle 1 revolution. This elimates the spool dia change, or human error of possiblly holding rods not pointing the bait causeing friction rubbing on eyelets or water in the line... any other BS that can be used to say the experiment is flawed.
By the way every example spool dia changes I said that from the beginning
Which reel is easier to crank?
Answer they are the same. The lower gear ratio in this example did not make a difference because the spool dia was small enough to slow the IPT of the HG. That why I said gear ratio doesn't matter In this discussion. |
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Location: Aurora | curleytail - 3/13/2015 2:19 PM
Sometimes the engineers probably wish the supervisors would actually read the directions.
Hahaha! That's the machine operator's job.
Most supers can't read. |
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Location: varies | Propster - 3/13/2015 1:49 PM
rodbender - 3/13/2015 12:24 PM
I'm just gonna have to get em both Then dang it!
I applaud the company that comes up with a "quick change" gear set one could just pop in like a cartridge
Avet?
That was on the table as well as an accurate with long crank but prefer a level wind. |
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| I love this thread :D
Anzomcik keep trying it might work. |
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Location: Forest Lake, MN & Bemidji, MN | Propster - 3/13/2015 1:49 PM
rodbender - 3/13/2015 12:24 PM
I'm just gonna have to get em both Then dang it!
I applaud the company that comes up with a "quick change" gear set one could just pop in like a cartridge
Avet?
That was on the table as well as an accurate with long crank but prefer a level wind.
You should hold an Avet sxj raptor if you were considering a two speed reel. The profile is smaller than a calcutta D for a round reel and you can get either 39" or 24" inches per crank depending on which gear you are using. 3" power handle standard. Non-levelwind is not an issue, the spool is very narrow and tall so line capacity is good despite the narrow spool. Made to handle fish that will outfight a muskie anyday. |
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Location: MN | But, but, but.... but it just feels different! In my mind anyway it does |
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Posts: 1100
| Gear ratio :D |
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Location: The desert | It's very obvious why trolling passed in N. Wisconsin..... |
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Posts: 149
| Sidejack - 3/13/2015 8:53 AM
jaultman - 3/13/2015 7:12 AM
I could explain it another way, but being that you haven't followed along the many examples and many proofs so far, it wouldn't do any good.
I shouldn't care that people spew nonsense, but the fact is that it affects other people's choices, and also influences others' understanding of these concepts.
We've all talked ourselves into a corner before but there's no sense in getting whipped up about it.
anzomik, curleytail, jaultman, if you guys didn't contradict yourselves or offer up incorrect info (see below quotes ) so often you'd probably get more buy-in:
"Gear ratio does nothing to change force.."
"The Tranx handle is longer than the NACL handle.."
"..gear ratio has no effect on ease of retrieve. None what so ever. "
"No one is trying to argue that gear ratio is irrelevant altogether. But with regard to the original question, it doesn't matter."
Even the Tranx HG partly spooled & PG fully spooled example is flawed in that after the initially turn of each handle, the HG will begin building more line on it's spool, changing the IPT thus the HG will slowly become harder to crank.
Talk about nonsense.. sheesh
A partially filled HG would be easier to turn on the same length cast. Your IPT would go down because the spool size would shrink more on the smaller spool. The first turn on an empty HG is ~13ipt. |
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| Never argue with a fool. Sombody passing by won't know who's who. |
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Posts: 525
| So suppose the spools are both filled to capacity on a tranx hg and pg... Wouldn't the drag or resistance of the lure being retrieved then have an impact on the ammount of force required to turn the handle one turn? The IPT would differ due to full spools on each. Then wouldn't the pg take less force to retrieve a super model than the hg due to the lower more "powerful" gear ratio? |
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Posts: 1100
| That's right. |
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Posts: 2097
| Musky, full spool hg is 43", full spool pg is 30". Thus the 30" is easier.
Like the winch is 22", 5:4:1 is mid twenty" and 6:4:1 is low 30". The 22" will be easiest. |
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Posts: 2097
| Pointerpride102 - 3/13/2015 5:38 PM
It's very obvious why trolling passed in N. Wisconsin.....
Obviously you don't understand either.
http://muskie.outdoorsfirst.com/board/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=10...
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Location: The desert |
Could you please show me where I claimed I did understand it? I'd sure like to see it. |
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