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Message Subject: Wisconsin Trolling proposal | |||
Beaver |
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Posts: 4266 | Martin, where am I going to get a trolling motor that allows me to troll deep diving crankbaits, or even shallow runners? I'd need 6 batteries to power two 36 volt motors. I'm talking really trolling, not dragging suckers. I would really like to thanks those of you who get it. I'm no different that I was when I used to fish from dark to dark and I wish that I could still do it, but I can't. I would much rather cast and feel the strike and watch a fish come after a top water. Those that know me know that I would throw a glider all day from September to freeze up. Still my favorite memories are of big fish coming up like missiles launched from a sub in clear water to inhale a glider and turn to go back down, but I don't think that I'll ever see it again, but that's OK because I've seen it. I'm just trying to find some way to keep my ass on the water. I love fishing with my daughter, and pan fish and walleyes are good enough for me. Just being in the boat with her is enough. But trolling one line would keep me in the hunt, and she still hasn't boated her first one so we could still do it together. The Gov. won't change anything for me because I was a public employee for 32 years.......I couldn't resist that one. Don't tell him about me, it'll screw up the whole works. Thanks again to those who understand. Beav Edited by Beaver 2/17/2015 6:16 PM | ||
jonnysled |
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Posts: 13688 Location: minocqua, wi. | ToddM - 2/17/2015 4:41 PM You can jig deeper than you could troll those lakes and stay right on a spot on the spot. There is a reason it is being done on lsc where trolling is huge. are you suggesting that fish in the basin are relating to structure? Travis!!!!! | ||
esoxaddict |
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Posts: 8788 | Travis, I've never fished with you, so I can't say for sure... But you strike me as the kind of angler who has it together enough where trolling down 35 feet over 70 feet of water is something you're probably not apt to do in warm temperatures. Plus, I presume that your release techniques are adequate enough where you're not killing a lot of fish. I worry more about the less-experienced, "I'll do anything to catch a fish" crowd, and also the guys who are guiding because they need the money, and will do anything to put their clients on fish. I worry more about the guys who have no regard for the resource, who keep what they catch, and laugh about their freezer full of walleyes, who will keep a dozen fish regardless of the 2 fish creel limit. Those are the guys doing the damage. | ||
CiscoKid |
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Posts: 1906 Location: Oconto Falls, WI | Brad, against. More so for the walleye fishery than the musky fishery. I agree on the larger systems it isn't going to have a huge effect. However, it is the smaller, less than 1000 acre lakes I am concerned about. Especially those under 500 acres that are deep, cisco based lakes. Yes part of the reason I am against it is because I would prefer the lakes that people are currently afraid to tackle wouldn't be as afraid to target if allowed to troll. Lots out there think they have to troll to target suspended muskies. Secondly, and my main reason, as mentioned prior is the fear (yes fear) of what will happen to some fisheries. Not all mind you. I am not worried about the anglers that practice selective harvest for walleyes, but those that do not. Those are pretty great in number around the Eagle River area based on observation the past 15+ years. Too many do not follow regs, and they will be the ones that ruin a fishery. Give them a tool to tap into the large suspended summer walleyes, and they will exploit it. I hope I am wrong. Many may be in disagreement with me, and that is your right. However I see enough gluttony around Eagle River, Boulder Junction, Iron River MI (WI folks there), and Manitowish Waters to have a valid reason to be fearful of what could happen. Again, remember, once this happens there will likely not be any going back to correct it or at a minimum it would take many years to recover. At least I am truthful and upfront on why I am against it. As far as me or anyone else trolling 35' down and it being ethical? I asked as I feel it is OK for the fish, and if trolling is legal I WILL be doing it. There is as much proof that catching a fish 35' down is safe for a fish as there is that trolling will not affect a fishery. I bet more fish die inhaling rubber baits and double 10's than they do from being caught in more than 30' of water. I was just feeling out how the rest of you would feel now that I can take advantage of a tool that so many of you want. There are plenty of others I know that will be doing the same as me. Mind you we are smart enough to not being doing that in higher water temps, but others based on previous threads on this board are not. So if you have issues with it you should be asking is trolling really not going to affect the fisheries as little as you think? Just like the Pelagic thread we are a fickle bunch. So many are for trolling, but only if you do it in a way that best fits your ideal reason for it and the way you want to do it. Heaven forbid someone wants to do it differently. Points to ponder. Edited by CiscoKid 2/17/2015 6:15 PM | ||
ToddM |
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Posts: 20227 Location: oswego, il | Sled, nope not all jigging is spot on the spot bottom structure, staying on hooks and baitfish is. The fact people are not doing that tells me people in droves won't be trolling either. Travis, you will be a good troller because you are a good fisherman. I keep bringing this up because you seem to indicate trolling =automatic success. It does not. Edited by ToddM 2/17/2015 6:20 PM | ||
jonnysled |
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Posts: 13688 Location: minocqua, wi. | fishing baitfish and hooks is pretty common and not what i'd call a novel concept ... the tools to do it maybe, yah. Travis brings us a lot of good points ... | ||
CiscoKid |
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Posts: 1906 Location: Oconto Falls, WI | ToddM - 2/17/2015 4:41 PM You can jig deeper than you could troll those lakes and stay right on a spot on the spot. There is a reason it is being done on lsc where trolling is huge. It works everywhere. Of course you could always jig deeper than you could troll, but there becomes a depth at which you do not need to go beyond to target fish. I can reach that depth trolling certain cranks. I have a Franky Bait waiting in the ranks that I know hits 40' with about 100' of wire out. That will do the job nicely, and cover a lot more water finding fish. Sure at times jigging is more effective than casting or trolling. At times trolling is more effective than the other two, and so on. I do not buy this reason to allow trolling just because on some days jigging is the better option. If you are dealing with a spot on the spot situation trolling wouldn't be my first option either, but that has nothing to do with trolling being fine for a fishery. | ||
jonnysled |
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Posts: 13688 Location: minocqua, wi. | short line downriggers will put em wherever you want to put em ... my biggest concern is it will cost me the expense of a new kicker. | ||
CiscoKid |
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Posts: 1906 Location: Oconto Falls, WI | ToddM - 2/17/2015 6:18 PM I keep bringing this up because you seem to indicate trolling =automatic success. It does not. That is not my intent at all, and I am well aware that trolling is not easy and mindless. There are plenty of unethical, meat hunter type anglers that are very good fisherman. They will do well trolling as well, and that is my concern. | ||
Musky Brian |
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Posts: 1767 Location: Lake Country, Wisconsin | as long as the trolling will not effect the fantastic Bass fishing and dining options then I think it will work out just fine for Northern WI | ||
jonnysled |
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Posts: 13688 Location: minocqua, wi. | with the new walleye initiative on the minocqua chain i would imagine any new trolling laws would not go into effect during the 3 - 5 years of no harvest of walleyes. | ||
BenR |
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jonnysled - 2/17/2015 7:40 PM with the new walleye initiative on the minocqua chain i would imagine any new trolling laws would not go into effect during the 3 - 5 years of no harvest of walleyes. Are they not allowing fishing on the chain during that period? | |||
jonnysled |
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Posts: 13688 Location: minocqua, wi. | still has some finalization but hoping it will begin this year ... will be a 3-5 year no harvest on walleyes, improvement of spawning habitat and stocking initiative aimed at re-establishing a sustainable population on the chain. joint effort between walleyes for tomorrow, the tribe, anglers and the dnr ... hope is once they re-establish they will regain dominance over the lmb's but i intend to assist. other species can be fished ... but no take on walleyes. | ||
sworrall |
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Posts: 32890 Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | I'd like to troll, have to be honest. Won't be a bit upset if I can't. | ||
esoxaddict |
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Posts: 8788 | sworrall - 2/17/2015 8:43 PM I'd like to troll, have to be honest. Won't be a bit upset if I can't. I'd be lying if I said I wouldn't do it if given the opportunity. That doesn't mean I think it's a good idea, though. | ||
Castalot |
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Posts: 19 | I do not live in Wisconsin and regretfully have not fished there yet so I have no dog in this political battle. However, I primarily fish in a state where trolling 2 rods per person is permitted. I cast about 80-90 % of the time and troll from spot to spot the remaining time. I used to troll a lot more. Here is the kicker I catch more muskies per hour of casting than I do trolling. It's not even close. It is certainly possible that I am just not good at trolling. According to the posters on a local website a great day of casting in prime time is 3-5 musky in a day. Interestingly a great day of trolling is 3-5 musky a day. There was one guy who stated he caught 9 in a day trolling last year. 9 fish in a day though is certainly probably 8 to 8.5 fish over the daily average. Just sayin and good luck to all casters, trollers and trolls in 2015 | ||
tuffy1 |
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Posts: 3240 Location: Racine, Wi | I'm with Brad on this. You cal already troll in some locations up north. Price Co. Right next to Oneida, some Hayward area lakes, etc. no one flocks there just because they can troll. And the lakes aren't suffering because you can troll. As far as the money and stocking go, you have the Northwoods MI chapter now that is getting steam. Approach some of the summer crowd for education purposes and membership and you can get some of the money flowing through the Northwoods during the summer for stocking purposes, not to mention educating them on the need for selective harvest of walleyes and safe release of muskies. Those summer visitors are ripe for the picking with a good summer marketing campaign. | ||
jonnysled |
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Posts: 13688 Location: minocqua, wi. | if stocking quotas are met, the money that is raised is invited to go to those lakes that weren't stocked to their quota ... which are all outside of the area. raising money and dumping fish in a lake you want to put them into is not how it goes, unfortunately. | ||
tuffy1 |
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Posts: 3240 Location: Racine, Wi | If the stocking quotas are met, would there be a population issue to begin with? My hole point is that with a good chapter in that area now, there's a lot you can do to help educate, along with stocking when needed. Think of all the kids that are up there during the summer, along with those that reside up there. Lots of education opportunities. Maybe a "kids" day at Pecks. Teach them of selective harvest, all my with the parents and you have a piece that would go a long way. Maybe it's monthly during my the summer...or whatever. The point is, lots of opportunities. From an over bagging standpoint, I'd argue that some of the most blatant offenders are residents of the area. When you look at the back trolling days, who were the guys keeping the big walleyes and muskies.... Local guides. Perhaps their afraid of themselves when shooting down the trolling. Look at Greg Bohn. A gr at guide and fisherman, but how many big fish were (are still) kept and killed out of his boat? | ||
jonnysled |
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Posts: 13688 Location: minocqua, wi. | stocking quotas are based on the budget so not even close. minocqua chain is a prime example ... it desperately needs and can hold and grow fish, but the quota (based on the budget) has been met so you can't just raise money and put fish in. there is a group of people that can though ... an interesting irony. the walleyes for tomorrow group is doing the most progressive work in the area and i'm hopeful they will continue to gain momentum and consensus among all those who can make an impact. kids in the summer ride jet skis and wakeboards while their dads are being hen-pecked by their wives. the shimano father's day event is no more ... | ||
Jeff78 |
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Posts: 1660 Location: central Wisconsin | The Shimano Fathers day event was a blast. My son and me fished it from the get go. Great memories of the first two before it got watered down. | ||
tuffy1 |
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Posts: 3240 Location: Racine, Wi | Interesting politics. We supplement the lakes down here even after the Dnr stocks them so must be something else going on that I'm unaware of. How many lakes are up there? There aren't some you can stock outside of the main players? I would think the Dnr would love to have the financial assistance as it relates to stocking. I don't know the politics though. When I say hold events, I'm not talking outings, just smaller stop by type programs where you have increased visibility and an easy group to target. My example of working with pecks was brought up because that parking lot is packed all summer long. They have a musky pond and captive audience. Seems like it would work for educating some of them. | ||
jonnysled |
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Posts: 13688 Location: minocqua, wi. | when i heard the stocking report (maybe a year ago), the lakes an effort could send the money to were not in oneida or vilas counties ... it was nonsense and seemed ridiculous. the DNR i think loves the money and assistance ... to stock lakes that are under quota, which are somewhere else in the state. the youth programs in most clubs need to pass the test of the club politics first. i can get more kids fishing at my shack and in my boat throughout a year than you can in any club with the politics of it's own leadership ... and that is a FACT silly schidt you would think should be easy but it's not. maybe it's changed, but i doubt it ... Edited by jonnysled 2/18/2015 9:14 AM | ||
tuffy1 |
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Posts: 3240 Location: Racine, Wi | We have a pretty good youth program for our club as does the FRV chapter. Buuuut, it takes people who are willing to step up and help which can be difficult. But I digress. I think we're getting off topic now. Just food for thought. | ||
M Winther |
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that's interesting that you're limited from supplementing DNR stocking. i know there are some limits on maximum stocking amounts (legislative maybe?), but using the Minocqua Chain as an example, it's had very little stocking in the last decade. have there been some other management goals in place related to natural reproduction or something similar that have meant no stocking? so that, you know, we can kill them later on by trolling. our club puts a lot of money into stocking, but we put a lot of money and/or effort into non-stocking efforts too and many of these involve youth. the Muskie School in March is a good example, so is the youth muskie tournament i've run the last few years; we've had ~19 kids per year take part in that. it takes work, but there haven't been any barriers related to club politics. in fact, a couple kids even came down for it last year from the Eagle River area and the Muskie School draws a couple hundred (with many youth) from all over.
Edited by M Winther 2/18/2015 9:36 AM | |||
jonnysled |
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Posts: 13688 Location: minocqua, wi. | i'm not the one to respond to the stocking piece but just relating year or maybe even two year old information. what i do know is that if you catch a musky or a walleye on the Minocqua Chain chances are it's going to be pretty big and if fishing for Muskies or Walleyes, you will have a great day of bass fishing. If targeting bass on the chain you will have the time of your life ... but i doubt they will be as fun if you troll for them ... the largest effort happening is being led by Walleyes for Tomorrow, the Tribe and the DNR and it's going to be exciting and hopefully work for the longer range. I would imagine they will consider the trolling piece carefully and independently so as not to negate the efforts of the plan. i'll ask some questions and see what those in the know know. you guys do a great job down there in Madison ... always enjoyed being part of the Madison Club outing at Eagle and keeping up with what you do down there. a thought to consider ... the Governor passed the Walleye Initiative and there are big $$ committed to bringing back the walleye fishery in N. Wisco. those who are trying to bring back more fishing tourism are focused on walleyes. the walleye planning and investment combined have more "attention" so it's likely not the row-trolling lawyers who are stalling or stopping this, it could be the walleye folks. the rebuilding of a walleye fishery with added pressure will make it even harder than it already will be. Edited by jonnysled 2/18/2015 10:00 AM | ||
jlong |
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Posts: 1937 Location: Black Creek, WI | Interesting Sled. My personal reason for being in FAVOR of the single line trolling option in Northern WI was to help me catch more walleyes.... not muskies. | ||
Hodag Hunter |
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Posts: 238 Location: Rhinelander | The minocqua chain is/has met stocking quotas for the past two stocking runs every three years. (Minocqua is one of three brood lakes why it is every three years vs every other) The decline in muskie population was from 10 to 15 years and back with very little to no stocking. We are feeling/seeing those effects now because very few fish exist in this year class. Young muskie do exist in the chain now....10 years from now we will hopefully see the positive results. | ||
M Winther |
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Hodag Hunter - 2/18/2015 10:13 PM The decline in muskie population was from 10 to 15 years and back with very little to no stocking. We are feeling/seeing those effects now because very few fish exist in this year class. Young muskie do exist in the chain now....10 years from now we will hopefully see the positive results. So the walleyes and the muskies are both on the "hopefully in 10 years" plan.
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jonnysled |
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Posts: 13688 Location: minocqua, wi. | Muskies are not on the program for the Lake Minocqua Walleyes for Tomorrow Plan ... not sure, but I think it's 1 @ 34" on the Chain for muskies. Ciscoes are noted on Lake Tom for playing a big role in Walleye numbers and spawning habitat and harvest are noted on Lake Minocqua while Kawagua has the strongest adult per acre numbers. If it passes all the way and it should, they are going to build an ice road next year (on Lake Minocqua) and put gravel out to rebuild spawning areas to improve them as well. The Bass situation suggests they essentially occupying the void the low Walleye numbers leave behind per DNR presentation. Again, thought is the Bass population will check back down when the Walleyes re-establish themselves. There is no way to effectively remove them ... but I'll mark a map for you!! limits are 5 lmb's no size limit and they eat just fine ... hopefully people will continue to release smb's There are some big bass tournaments that happen now and it is definitely starting to get notice from Bass clubs around the region. Would be a great place for a tournament. The Chain has enormous potential and grows big fish of all species ... my multi-species numbers (gils, smb, lmb, muskie, pike, walleye for size) on Lake Minocqua even in what I would call the bad years have been really, really good, so if this plan works for Walleyes it will be great. thanks for the report on the stocking Jason ... hopefully start seeing some of those fish soon ... another interesting occurrence in Minocqua that we've noticed the past 3 years is a growing population of the Silver Pike ... now they represent about 30% of the Pike we are catching through the ice ... a noticeable difference. we release all of them and only take the normal pike under 28 ... the bigger of all go back in. it's a great Pike fishery too ... Edited by jonnysled 2/19/2015 8:33 AM | ||
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