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| Guest - 10/11/2011 9:11 AM
If 1/2 of the new anglers that are brought into the fold by the internet, TV shows and guides would step up and make an effort to improve muskie fishing then we'd be well on our way to a bright future.
Until that happens we're in the same place we were before the new lakes got started.
To many people wanting to use the same fishery. That inevitably results in the fishery declining both in numbers and in quality of fishing experience.
Maybe some of us wouldn't be so crabby if the rest of the muskie world (other than about 10%) gave a rats butt about anything other than doing whatever it takes to catch a 50"er.
JS
Seriously, John?
People have jobs and lives and families and careers. They may get a few weekends off, or maybe two weeks vacation over the course of a year, and all they want to do is go out and catch a fish or two. The money one needs to spend just to outfit themselves with a rod, reel, some rain gear, and a handful of lures might be all the disposable income they have in a year. Are you REALLY saying that those folks, are part of a "problem"? You just turned 95% of the muskie anglers into villians, because they just want to go out and catch a fish. So maybe they hire a guide or two, spend a week at a lodge, whatever. You expect them to spend that time improving the sport instead? It's one or the other for most folks. If they spend their time and energy on improving muskie fishing, they won't have time to fish. What good is a lake full of fish to someone who no longer has time to enjoy it?
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I never called anyone a villian.
I never said there is a "minimum" amount of work/donating that people have to do to be able to muskie fish.
But the fact of the matter is that the vast majority of those that do muskie fish don't "give back". That is a sad fact that none of you can deny.
The fishery cannot sustain the pressure it has on it and it would be nice if more would get involved.
If those statements are so offensive to some of you that you feel the need to give me a horsewhipping, and act like expecting others to care as much about the fishery as they do about catching fish is outragous than so be it.
Many of you do care, that's great. But the majority of the anglers don't show it in any way.
JS |
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Guest;
That was either some good sarcasm or some really bad logic.
Thanks either way.
JS |
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| JS, i wonder if people are reacting more to the "feel" of what you wrote, than the content. you're right on the facts...it's true that many/most people do not "give back." however, (and correct me if i'm wrong) it sounds like you believe this is from apathy, disinterest, or just plain selfishness. i've noticed that many of the most active members of my local MI chapter are older: retired or nearing retirement and no kids at home. they have the time to lead projects and activities that younger folks with jobs and kids simply can't give up, even when they might want to do so. my belief is that many people actually do care, and more people would "give back" if they had the time or if they were specifically invited to do easier short-term tasks. my hope is that we continue to get future waves of people who are willing to shoulder the heaviest lifting...we'll need them...and peeing them off now by calling them apathetic isn't going to help. instead, maybe we could do a better job of honoring and exhorting the "doers" and leaders in the grass roots efforts so that it would inspire others to become more active? |
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Posts: 13688
Location: minocqua, wi. | how do you earn a "care" button?
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| I'm not attacking you, John.
I'm just pointing out the fact that the vast majority of anglers probably have nothing to GIVE. It takes time, money, and the right personality to go out there and improve fishing. The folks you speak of, crowding your lakes? I'd venture to say that they don't know that muskie fishing NEEDS any improvement. They aren't aware of the issues, they know nothing about fisheries, and they wouldn't know what to do or how, even if they KNEW there was work to be done. They just go out there, when they are able, and go fishing, and go home. The come to MN on vacation, buy their licenses, spend their money in the resorts, restaurants, and tackle shops, and then they go back to their lives, and muskie fishing doesn't even exist in their world until next year's trip. |
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Posts: 121
Location: Forest Lake, MN & Bemidji, MN | jfreborg - 10/10/2011 3:04 PM
Sounds like a lot of people should never leave the house...do you need to be the only one in a good restaurant?
If you owned your own private lake you would b**ch about the taxes. Muskie fishing is fun, people are going to do it. Deal with it.
Yes, if theres only 3 or 4 steaks in the lake!!
Dave
Nothing personal Dave, I don't know you and because you fish muskies you are likely a great guy. But yes, you are being selfish. I was born and raised in Bemidji, MN and have seen plenty of other people I don't know fishing in plenty of places I have grown up fishing over the years. So I wait my turn and fish it different or I go fish another spot. I don't say I fished this in the 90's or the 80's or whenever so you should leave. As long as people are respectful I always try to say hello to a fellow angler and ask how the action is when the opportunity presents itself. If they are not respectful I will politely educate them to the cut off or whatever, but the fact is they have just as much right to be there as I do. I rarely participate in any of these discussions because it's depressing to me. I was pretty bummed out seeing so many people with the mentailty that something is "theirs" a lake, a spot, a technique or whatever. Like Steve said "who the hell are you to decide who should or should not be able to fish" I don't think anyone using the internet was the first guy to ever target a musky so get over yourselves, me included. If you are fishing in traffic use it as an opportunity to test your ability and appreciate the fact you are doing something you love. Or just give up, it's up to you. If you are ever in Bemidji I hope you catch a pig. Jeremy |
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Posts: 639
Location: Hudson, WI | Which again begs the question, what do you have to give to be worthy enough to fish? |
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| Moltisanti - 10/11/2011 12:15 PM
Which again begs the question, what do you have to give to be worthy enough to fish?
$500 and 20 hrs of community service. Next time read the fine print when you purchase your license. |
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Posts: 2068
| JS - So what in your opinion should an out of state person, like me, that spends several thousand dollars per year in MN (chasing these crazy fish) do to improve your states muskie fishing? |
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Posts: 1148
| Excuse me for my ignorance JS, this is only my 4th year muskie fishing and it's great. However, who are you and what have you done to improve the fisheries? (Not saying you havn't done anything as I'm sure you have, but what exactly?) I live in WI, I attended and voted to raise the statewide limit to 40" as that is the least I felt I could do. However, I really don't know what else I can do. I am not a member of Muskies Inc. because the closest chapter is 90 miles from me, otherwise, I would love to join if I could actually make it to the meetings.
Some of what you say is true. I am out for a 50". But I also believe the stages of muskie fishing someone had posted a couple days ago. I've caught quite a few smaller muskies with my PB being 46", so the next goal of mine is the first 50", even a 48" for that matter.
I even thought about starting a musky club of some sort locally but people would probably laugh at me. I know there are many guys in the area that have tons more knowledge than me and what are they doing?
Please, what are some examples of things us "young, new, don't give a #%$ muskie anglers could do to improve the fisheries? BTW, I've never fished in MN if that's your gripe. I see all the big fish caught over there just like anybody else but I don't go running. Probably because the fact I can't afford it. I am fine fishing the local lakes in my area and taking a camping trip a couple times a year to northern WI and I can guarantee you one thing. I do care, and would do anything to help my local lakes and I believe I have much more interest in Langlade/Oneida county than you.
Please enlighten me. Or is it just MN you care about?
Edited by MartinTD 10/11/2011 12:50 PM
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Posts: 2068
| John Skarie is a muskie Inc officer I'm sure he has done a TON
Edited by IAJustin 10/11/2011 12:53 PM
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Posts: 1148
| MartinTD - 10/11/2011 12:46 PM
(Not saying you havn't done anything as I'm sure you have, but what exactly?)
I believe he has by the way he talks. I never said he didn't. As a relatively new muskie angler, is it my responsibility to know him and his accomplishments?
More importantly, what can I do that I'm not?
How can a new chapter be started? Rhinelander/Wausau/Merrill/Antigo - any of these would be great.
Edited by MartinTD 10/11/2011 12:57 PM
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Lambeau;
I couldn't tell you why people choose to not get involved. I hear things about how many 1000's of people are on sites like this and Musky Hunter, and other sites that are constantly talking about issues but the number of people involved in grass-roots campaigns or in MI has been stagnant for the last decade. I don't think I made the claim people were apathetic I've just stated the facts that with the tens of thousands more people that are fishing in MN now we have the same amount of water and virtually the same amount of people "giving" back.
I think it would be a much easier pill to swallow in regards to crowded lakes if it actually seemed like people were getting involved. When the lakes become more and more crowded and we have harder and harder times fundraising and getting guys to become active volunteers it leaves a pretty sour taste in your mouth.
I also really don't see why it's such a bad thing for guys to say that it sucks fishing on these crowded waters. Isn't that the first step to getting people fired up to get new water? Making them realize that we could have it better? That's how we got these new lakes in the 1st place. Leech, Cass and the few other waters we had got pounded and people wanted fishing to be better both for numbers/quality of fish and the fishing experience.
It really floors me that so many of you have this attitude of "quit complaing and deal with it" rather than "yah, these lakes are getting to crowded, let's get together and see if we can get more waters".
For those of you that are asking the ridiculous questions about "how much is enough", just go look in the mirror and do a little self-examining. If you think you can do more, or want to do more than do it.
JS |
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Martin;
I read your post after I typed my last one.
I'm not here to list a resume, or to put myself above anyone else.
As I stated, do what you can do, what you want to do.
Maybe it's joining a club, or sending an e-mail/letter when needed, attending a public meeting or just trying to be a more considerate angler when on the water (that goes a long way for our public image in regards to non-muskie guys as well).
JS |
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Posts: 1148
| So the best way to get involved is join Muskies Inc.? Like I said, closest chapter for me is Green Bay or Medford. Both of which are probably more concerned with the local waters.
Quite frankly, bashing new anglers (like myself - 4yrs) while you are representing Muskies Inc. doesn't make me want to join any more.
Honestly though, what would it take to start a new chapter? I would like to be involved in something like that. PM or email if you'd like.
Sorry, the more I read I couldn't help but take it personal, even though I feel I've already done what I can.
Edited by MartinTD 10/11/2011 1:09 PM
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Posts: 3157
| last few posts have mentioned Restaurants,,limited amount of steaks,,and contributing/giving back
Id like to thank those who contribute/give back to all the slot machines which allow me to go to casino buffets and have all you can eat prime rib steaks for $12.99 |
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I don't see how stating the fact that the majority (vast majority) of anglers don't get involved is "bashing".
I didn't call anybody any names, single anybody out or tell people they don't have a right to fish unless the meet some level of achievement.
I merely pointed out that with the tens of thousands of new anglers that fish for muskies in MN there has been a stagnant number of people working to keep improving our fisheries.
How PC does one have to be to make a point? We aren't children here.
JS
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Posts: 1148
| Done.
Edited by MartinTD 10/11/2011 1:25 PM
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| I think the points that are made by JS are all very valid. It seems that the people that are taking offense are taking his comments to mean something that they are not intended to mean.
It's a simple fact with anything, that the majority of people don't actively get involved in making a difference. And that's perfectly fine. If 10% do something and 90% don't, how many of that 90% are the ones that are out there being vocal about how bad things are? I think those are the people that should be called out. If you are willing to be vocal about complaining, why are you sitting on your hands and doing nothing? Some might not know what they can do. But many do know, and choose to do nothing. I would say that this is a small percentage of people. But there are certainly people like that out there. I know several personally. They are the people that will complain about wanting new waters, yet won't pick up the phone or send an email when the time comes to show support for new waters. Something that would take a minute or two out of their day.
I don't believe that JS is making a blanket statement about most people. But there is certainly a fraction that are vocal complainers, that don't deserve any sympathy when they are aware of things that they could do and don't do them.
I see it much like voting. We might not have the greatest choices out there for our elected officials. But don't complain about who gets elected if you didn't go to the polls and cast your own ballot. |
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Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | 'I couldn't tell you why people choose to not get involved.'
There's your sign.
Martin,
It's not super easy to get a MI club going. I'm not sure there would be enough participation in the area of Rhinelander and Antigo, as many belong to Eagle River's group. The folks in MN are not used to what we've seen here on and off for 35 years...and what some call pressure isn't even close to what Indiana anglers call 'busy'.
The last Muskie creel on Pelican before the current management program went into place and a 50" limit was adopted recorded something near 50 muskies over 40" killed in a single year from a 3600 acre lake. Pelican used to have the highest Muskie angling hours creel recorded in Northern WI. That was pressure...and the lake is still there, the muskie fishing better than it has been in quite a while for size structure, and there's hope Pelican will not need to be stocked any more. It hasn't been since 1998, I believe.
The new size limit was acquired by a couple hard working guys, and no organized club was involved. It's possible to get things done locally if the need arises, and Norm and Mike showed us how to make it so.
Interestingly, Pelican is not as crowded now.
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Posts: 639
Location: Hudson, WI | Little story...
I very good friend of mine is a tournament bass angler. We'd give each other crap about me casting all day with no fish, and him catching a fish that the least skilled angler in the world could catch 50 of off their dock. One night, I take him musky fishing. He drills a 52on topwater. He was shaking so badly when I was showing him how to unhook it that he dropped the pliers three times, so I had to take over entirely. His wife later told me that he never slept that night and paced around the garage until 7 in the morning.
Next day, he calls me...from Thorne Bros. He buys a rod, reel, net, pliers, cutters and a bunch of baits. He's hooked for life. Fishes at least once a week now, largely the same spots and same waters that I do. Guy's a hell of a good stick, too.
Personally, I'm glad I was able to turn someone on to our great sport. But according to some of the attitudes displayed here, I should call him what he is, or what I've created...another d-bag person on my spot. He's not an MI member either, just a frickin worthless dude pillaging the resource someone else built for him.
Edited by Moltisanti 10/11/2011 2:00 PM
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Martin;
I'm pretty the words worthless and d-bag didn't come from any other post you've read here, so why turn it into that?
JS
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Location: minocqua, wi. | piece-a-crap probably spears and eats pike too eh moltisanti? ...
what a d-bag |
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Posts: 667
Location: Roscoe IL | To the point of the Author of this thread. In years past I have noticed a dramatic decrease of angelrs on the water in October & November. This is the best time to fish IMOP, I save most my vacation for this time of year because I know during the work week I will not see another boat or only a few at best. On Friday's going into the weekend it picks up, but generaly it's not to busy on the water. Maybe the increased cost of Suckers or the same outdoorsman are hunting this time of year, but it's not that bad. Granted this year I haven't been able to get out yet and maybe I'll get a big surprise, but the season is just getting started for me. I just love using Suckers and that noise of the reel screemig when a muskie grabs that sucker makes the hair on the back of my neck stand strait up! You just never know how big it is until you set the hook, my entire body shakes when all of this is going on and I love it!
Safe fishing all and best of luck..
Mike |
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Location: Hudson, WI | Guest - 10/11/2011 2:22 PM
Martin;
I'm pretty the words worthless and d-bag didn't come from any other post you've read here, so why turn it into that?
JS
Martin didn't post that, John, I did. And you're right, no one said that. But the overall context has been there the whole time.
I get what you're saying. No one has the right to complain if they don't do anything about it. But let's be honest. People fish because they like to fish. As long as they abide by the laws, practice CPR and respect the resource and other fishermen, they should be all good in anyone's book. Saying someone isn't as worthy because they don't donate their time and money to an organization is ridiculous and condescending. And a turn off to non-musky anglers, who we need on our side.
As far as MN pressure goes...here's another story. I started fishing Miltona in 2004. I kid you not, I fished on two different occasions where there was not a single other boat fishing for muskies. On a 5800 acre lake. I was up there this opener. The guys I fished with started bch-ing immediately...7 boats in the landing already. We get to a spot and there are two guys chunking it. "Well...we can't fish this spot. This lake is just pressured beyond belief." What??? It would've taken us three hours to fish it! It's a huge area, on a 5800 acre lake!
Maybe us metro guys are immune to it, I don't know. But seriously. There are a lot more muskie fishermen now. I'd bet 70% of the Minnesota muskie guys were walleye and bass fishermen 10 years ago. Now their fishing for YOUR fish. Get used to it.
Edited by Moltisanti 10/11/2011 3:29 PM
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Location: Hudson, WI | jonnysled - 10/11/2011 2:25 PM
piece-a-crap probably spears and eats pike too eh moltisanti? ...
what a d-bag
No, he just keeps the ones he catches on tip-ups. It's a more humane way to kill them. |
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| everybody chill!
Great ideas, some anyway, above.
I want to remind folks that I was an early ranter asking people to think about the state of muskie fishing 100 years from now. So far the only decent response I've received is a Guest calling me a "Sneaky PETA". Which is pretty funny.
Treats, it was you, not The Fat Man. |
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| I sat down and figured it out. This season, between licenses, MI membership, and donations to our local club, we spent around $800 We caught a total of 5 fish, in 7 days of fishing. That comes out to $160/fish that theoretically should have gone directly to improving our fisheries. Is paying $160 for a fish that we returned to the water from which it came enough? That's about a dozen times what it costs to put that fish there to begin with.
Have I earned the right to fish in MN yet? |
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Posts: 3913
| "I don't even have a dog, you can call home and ask my wife."
Sorry Steve, the correct lyric to Uneasy Rider is
"I'm a faithfull follower of Brother John Burch
and I belong to the Antioch Baptist Church
And I ain't even got a garage, you can call home and ask my wife!"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=952h-AJ3Bcg&feature=related
The flip side of the 45 as I recall was "Funky Junky".
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